Hi I have '99 885i Tiger and I get a misfire that occurs maybe once a minute, sounds like a air leak when it happens .. like when you pop a air tool out of an air compressor fitting
Get a bit of backfire also on decel ... especially when warmed up ...
Run pretty good when winding her up ...
Any suggestions ?
Some popping on decel is normal. The backfiring obviously isn't. You don't say how many miles the bike's done or how long you've had it, but I'd take a look at the valve clearances first. If you have an inlet valve not closing properly it needs urgent attention otherwise you risk burning it out.
Just in case you don't know, shimmed valves are the opposite of old fashioned tappets; the more they wear, the smaller the gap gets (the valve recedes into the head) whereas in the old days with tappets the gap got bigger, so if they're quiet, that's not a good sign.
Quote from: Bixxer Bob on February 21, 2016, 10:23:15 PM
Some popping on decel is normal. The backfiring obviously isn't. You don't say how many miles the bike's done or how long you've had it, but I'd take a look at the valve clearances first. If you have an inlet valve not closing properly it needs urgent attention otherwise you risk burning it out.
Just in case you don't know, shimmed valves are the opposite of old fashioned tappets; the more they wear, the smaller the gap gets (the valve recedes into the head) whereas in the old days with tappets the gap got bigger, so if they're quiet, that's not a good sign.
32K on it ... not sure of service history
The clearances should be ok at those miles unless it's been thrashed.
You could also be looking for a faulty plug, faulty wiring to the coil stick, an air leak. It's hard to know where to start. Do you have any way of reading the ECU to see if there are any fault codes? We generally use free software called TuneECU but any OBD fault code reader will do. It might help show where to look.
Quote from: Bixxer Bob on February 21, 2016, 10:35:00 PM
The clearances should be ok at those miles unless it's been thrashed.
You could also be looking for a faulty plug, faulty wiring to the coil stick, an air leak. It's hard to know where to start. Do you have any way of reading the ECU to see if there are any fault codes? We generally use free software called TuneECU but any OBD fault code reader will do. It might help show where to look.
Just changed the plugs and air filter is good ... will check for air leaks and get a code reader or cable and install Tune ECU and go from there ..
Will post back with results
Thanks much !!
Once you have TuneECU up and running, look at the dwell tiime for the coils, they should all be roughly the same. If one is lagging behind the others you could be looking at a coil stick issue.
Referring to your tune ECU thread. Did it miss and pop on deceleration BEFORE you drilled holes in the cans?
From what I remember it did do that some ... seems more after the baffle holes were added ..
What is bothersome is the random sputter issue or misfire ... happens randomly at idle and when at a stoplight she will occasionally die but it will starts right up ... kinda embarassing ...
It's is very loud wish I could post the sound .. almost like a steam engine or when you plug in an air tool to a compressor hose
I think the popping is due to the extra holes you drilled, but the spitting does sound more like valve gear or coil stick(s) like Bixxer said.
Quote from: Bixxer Bob on February 22, 2016, 11:34:46 AM
Once you have TuneECU up and running, look at the dwell tiime for the coils, they should all be roughly the same. If one is lagging behind the others you could be looking at a coil stick issue.
Here is a snapshot when running .. anything stand out ?
I cleared the fuel pump codes as I removed the tank etc when changing the plugs
Dwell time for the middle coil is a bit behind the other two, and it's always the middle one that goes first. And they are now down to £45 each as opposed to over £100.
But before you do that, use TuneECU to cycle the IACV and make sure it's working properly (it will cycle through the full range of movement a couple of times) and check the corrugated tubes for leaks. These are common faults and easy to check and fix.
Also, you might find that simply reloading your map sorts it. The reload resets the trims, which can have wandered off if the battery voltage has been low for any reason. If you have an O2 sensor in the exhaust down pipe, ride it after the reload and it'll trim itself after 20-30miles. No O2 sensor, do the 12 minute tune.
Thanks so much for the valuable input !!
Any place to get them at that price in the US ?
Thanks
Found a set on ebay from a very low mileage bike (7K) and grabbed them ...
:icon_redface:
They'll never come in wrong as the old ones crack so it's not money wasted, but you were quick on the trigger there. Some of the low / no cost stuff could be the issue. It's hard to tell from here.
No matter, your approach now may be:
Reload the map and run it to see if you have made progress.
If not:
Tank off.
IACV check using TuneECU.
IACV tube check.
Remove old coils and plugs.
Remove cam cover and check valve clearances (number one suspect).
Fit cam cover (this is all covered in the Girly Wisdom thread). Gasket is re-usable so don't damage it but the four half circle bungs need a dab of gasket goo. (don't overdo this, you don't want it breaking off and blocking an oilway; just a very light smear is enough).
Fit new plugs and coils (keep the old ones but mark the suspect one).
Re- assemble everything else.
Hopefully you'll find something as you progress otherwise when you put it back together you'll wonder what fixed it, assuming you have.
BB,
are the coil sticks made by Gill ?
Gill uses the cheapest ,dirtiest ,nastiest wire made to make the winding's........................
too bad there isn't aftermarket for the coil sticks :^_^
us steamer guys can go to nology or pvl to get damn fine replacements :thumbsup
just replace the sticks and see what happens ................
remember "If it aint broke ..............Don't fuck with it !"
Good point M. It's just that it's easier / quicker to do everything while you're in there. One thing at time is methodical and you'll know what it was when you fixed it though.
The coil sticks are Spanish made Denso items. Not known to give a great deal of trouble but prone to cracks in the casing with age. AS with Chris's bike the middle one gets hottest and so goes first as a general rule.
I picked up the dwell time thing from a car electronics website a while back when I was looking for solutions to a fault on my daughter's car. As you'd expec,t the time (in milliseconds) should be roughly the same for all three. In his screen shot, the middle one is noticeably behind the other two.
Quote from: Mustang on February 26, 2016, 06:22:54 PM
BB,
are the coil sticks made by Gill ?
Not sure about the originals for the Girly's, Clive Woods has sourced PVL items and will shortly be offering them as a kit complete with W/T connections and pre-soldered fly leads. I'll let you know when is confirmed and the prices.
No log stuff is all PVL in drag according to an industry source I spoke to and this was confirmed by an electronics engineer who had opted some Nology branded coils and they were clearly marked PVL internally.
Got originals
Quote from: Bixxer Bob on February 26, 2016, 09:36:25 AM
Dwell time for the middle coil is a bit behind the other two, and it's always the middle one that goes first. And they are now down to £45 each as opposed to over £100.
But before you do that, use TuneECU to cycle the IACV and make sure it's working properly (it will cycle through the full range of movement a couple of times) and check the corrugated tubes for leaks. These are common faults and easy to check and fix.
Also, you might find that simply reloading your map sorts it. The reload resets the trims, which can have wandered off if the battery voltage has been low for any reason. If you have an O2 sensor in the exhaust down pipe, ride it after the reload and it'll trim itself after 20-30miles. No O2 sensor, do the 12 minute tune.
How do I cycle the IACV ?? Don't see an option for that ... Only see that it can be raised/lowered by clicking the up/down arrows ...
Thanks
Loaded the 9893 map for the TOR exhaust since I drilled my baffle plate ..
Did 12 sec tune ... still get the occasional miss and it happens more when it gets warmer
Will ride it and see if there is any noticeable difference ..
What is odd is that there seems to be no dedicated headlight only fuse or relay ... the only one that turns them off turns off other things (fuel pump etc) and the ECU will not connect with that fuse removed
Sticks will take about a week to get here ... plus I need to run the gas out of the tank anyway .. :wheel
Will post back my findings ..
Thanks for all the great info !
Quote from: Sin_Tiger on February 26, 2016, 07:30:03 PM
Not sure about the originals for the Girly's, Clive Woods has sourced PVL items and will shortly be offering them as a kit complete with W/T connections and pre-soldered fly leads. I'll let you know when is confirmed and the prices.
No log stuff is all PVL in drag according to an industry source I spoke to and this was confirmed by an electronics engineer who had opted some Nology branded coils and they were clearly marked PVL internally.
Apples and monkey nuts Sin, Item 8:
http://www.worldoftriumph.com/triumph_motorcycle_parts_locator.php?block_01=&block_02=100058993-1-2&block_03=23605
Quote from: jamman on February 26, 2016, 08:44:14 PM
How do I cycle the IACV ?? Don't see an option for that ... Only see that it can be raised/lowered by clicking the up/down arrows ...
Thanks
On TuneECU go to the TEST tab, top right, then left column, half way down, test and adjust.
Quote from: Bixxer Bob on February 26, 2016, 10:34:53 PM
Apples and monkey nuts Sin
Fair wrist slap :icon_redface: I blame Mustang in my defence.
On Topic. A tip I picked up from the Magnecor Engineer, although a very light coat of Red Rubber Grease is beneficial to the longevity of the seal, don't overdo it. Make sure the breather hole is clear, if it gets blocked it will cause the enclosed surfaces to harden due to ionisation.
JAMMAN, I just noticed that your injection pulses are a bit out of sync as well. Its normal to vary a little, but it might be worth watching them and the ign while it's running to see if they spike when it coughs. If they do it'll give a clue as to which cylinder is the issue and why. The ECU is reading something that's causing it to vary; whether that's an air leak, or an iffy connection, or whatever is for further investigation.
Quote from: Sin_Tiger on February 27, 2016, 11:36:37 AM
Fair wrist slap :icon_redface: I blame Mustang in my defence.
:bug_eye
Quote from: Bixxer Bob on February 27, 2016, 02:34:20 PM
JAMMAN, I just noticed that your injection pulses are a bit out of sync as well. Its normal to vary a little, but it might be worth watching them and the ign while it's running to see if they spike when it coughs. If they do it'll give a clue as to which cylinder is the issue and why. The ECU is reading something that's causing it to vary; whether that's an air leak, or an iffy connection, or whatever is for further investigation.
Great ... will do !! thanks ...
Quote from: Bixxer Bob on February 26, 2016, 10:40:11 PM
On TuneECU go to the TEST tab, top right, then left column, half way down, test and adjust.
I ran this test and no error codes ... just got the new Ignition Sticks ... going to try those next ... will update !
OK, removed tank to install the replacement ignition sticks and notices that on all 3 throttle bodies the little rubber tubes that go to each one were cracked and falling apart ..
None of the diagnostics gave any errors codes ... not sure they should have ...
Where do I get replacement tubes and where do they connect ?? To the air box ??
Thanks
OK I see that each tube connects to the IACV on the back ... but there are 4 ports ... does one of them get capped ?
Thanks !
It's correct that it will show no error codes and the tubes as you say connect to the IACV, one of the connections on that is blamked off. look in the ends and you'll see which one.
Quote from: jamman on March 08, 2016, 09:30:23 PM
OK I see that each tube connects to the IACV on the back ... but there are 4 ports ... does one of them get capped ?
Thanks !
The 4th port on the IACV is a dummy, I had the same issue with the cracked tubes, I bought genuine pipes from Triumph,(see below) not cheap, about £40 for the 3. Some have used silicone breather tube but I didnt want to take the chance, the pipes take really sharp bends, hence the corrugated look. You wont get error codes either, the sagem system wasnt that clever.
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g132/cockneytaff/DSCF2571_zpslsztic87.jpg)
PS: John above beat me to it :icon_wink:
Thanks for the info !
When looking at the IACV from the riding position .. which one is capped ? the one farthest to the left ?
I took a guess and hooked them up with left most port disconnected ..
Just took it for a spin ... Wow she runs great no more misfires !!! Between shifts it was not returning to idle but it is now !!!
Thanks for all the help guys !!!
Quote from: jamman on March 08, 2016, 11:41:14 PM
Thanks for the info !
When looking at the IACV from the riding position .. which one is capped ? the one farthest to the left ?
ummm, the one that doesnt have a tube going to it?
Quote from: jamman on March 09, 2016, 12:26:34 AM
Just took it for a spin ... Wow she runs great no more misfires !!! Between shifts it was not returning to idle but it is now !!!
Thanks for all the help guys !!!
How did you get replacement pipes that quick, or have you repaired with tape?
I bought vacuum hose and cut to length and hooked them up made sure no links ... seems to work fine
Quote from: jamman on March 09, 2016, 03:51:40 PM
I bought vacuum hose and cut to length and hooked them up made sure no links ... seems to work fine
Fair enough, I know a few have done that, I wasnt sure if the tight bends would collapse the hose, obviously not, oh well whats £40 :BangHead
I founds this picture and connected the same .. but my hoses are not fuel lines they are vacuum
Glad it sorted the problem. Pity you pulled the trigger on the coils before I'd put up my check list as it was second on my list of stuff to do:
Tank off.
IACV check using TuneECU.
IACV tube check.
Remove old coils and plugs.
Remove cam cover and check valve clearances (number one suspect).
Fit cam cover (this is all covered in the Girly Wisdom thread). Gasket is re-usable so don't damage it but the four half circle bungs need a dab of gasket goo. (don't overdo this, you don't want it breaking off and blocking an oilway; just a very light smear is enough).
Fit new plugs and coils (keep the old ones but mark the suspect one).
Re- assemble everything else.
Yeah I jumped on that a bit quick to by the coil sticks ... got a good deal on them so kind of glad to have some backups just in case ..
Now I seem to be having an issue when coming up a to traffic light when pulling in the clutch to downshift she wants to die ... she starts right up no problem ..
Wonder if one of the new vac tubes is connected to the stubbed off one ... or maybe I need to run diagnostics again ..
She runs great except for this now ...
Any suggestions are appreciated ..
Quote from: jamman on March 13, 2016, 04:13:01 AM
Yeah I jumped on that a bit quick to by the coil sticks ... got a good deal on them so kind of glad to have some backups just in case ..
Now I seem to be having an issue when coming up a to traffic light when pulling in the clutch to downshift she wants to die ... she starts right up no problem ..
Wonder if one of the new vac tubes is connected to the stubbed off one ... or maybe I need to run diagnostics again ..
She runs great except for this now ...
Any suggestions are appreciated ..
Well, almost certainly something to do with the IACV assy itself or tubing. There isnt a lot of room around there when the airbox goes back on, did you make sure the little foam gasket on top of the valve was still there? Though thats unlikely to cause running issues as such but it does allow unfiltered air straight into the motor.
Quote from: jamman on March 09, 2016, 03:51:40 PM
I bought vacuum hose and cut to length and hooked them up made sure no links ... seems to work fine
Quote from: jamman on March 13, 2016, 04:13:01 AM
Any suggestions are appreciated ..
I know that in an earlier quote you stated you are using "vac hose". Regular automotive vacuum hose will easily pinch, cutting off some air flow. That's why the photo above is using braided fuel line. Braided fuel line has less tendency of pinching, because of the extra structure of the hose. Even with braided fuel line you run a chance pinching on the left side (facing front) with those tight turns. I personally use braided fuel line and I also use a 90° elbow on the left hose (facing front) to relieve the chance of pinching.
Thanks for the info .. will pull the tank and replace the vac hose with fuel line and an elbow and see how it runs
Redid the vacuum lines with fuel line made sure none are pinched ... no change ...
When its cold idles ok right at 1000 RPM when pulling in the clutch to stop ... when it gets good and warmed up dives to 200-300 rpm and sometime recovers slowly back to 1000 RPMs but most of the time it dies unless I let the engine slowly wind down coming to a light before pulling in the clutch ..
I remember when I first got TuneECU going I changed the IACV setting by accident I think it was -2 if I remember correctly and it is set to 0 now .. not sure if that could affect this ...
Any suggestions are welcome thanks much !
Sorry the fuel hose didn't do the trick...
Other things to check:
Fuel - How long have you had your fuel? Has it sat for a while allowing water to condensate?
Spark - Have you checked your spark plugs and set the gap?
Are you getting 12v+ when running?
Air - Throttle bodies might need sync'ed.
http://www.tigertriple.com/forum/index.php?topic=6473 (http://www.tigertriple.com/forum/index.php?topic=6473)
One more thing, is there a lot of slop in your throttle cable before you "rev" up? Might need adjusted.
Quote from: jamman on March 14, 2016, 05:26:56 AM
Redid the vacuum lines with fuel line made sure none are pinched ... no change ...
When its cold idles ok right at 1000 RPM when pulling in the clutch to stop ... when it gets good and warmed up dives to 200-300 rpm and sometime recovers slowly back to 1000 RPMs but most of the time it dies unless I let the engine slowly wind down coming to a light before pulling in the clutch ..
I remember when I first got TuneECU going I changed the IACV setting by accident I think it was -2 if I remember correctly and it is set to 0 now .. not sure if that could affect this ...
Any suggestions are welcome thanks much !
Well, thats the same problem I had with the last Tiger and in the end I had to replace the stepper motor. But, I hadnt messed with the Tune ECU setting so maybe you can recover it, but Im not sure how. Thing is, when started from cold the motor should sit at anywhere between 2000 and 1500 revs depending on temperature and then slowly drop to 1200 as it warms up, how cold is it where you are at the moment? If you just turn the ignition on and off do you hear the stepper cycling? Oh, and dont be tempted to dismantle the stepper assy, it will end in tears.
As Bixxer's has said a billion times on here F about with these things at your peril,I put a new stepper on mine last year with new pipe and a balance even after 500 miles it was still sorting itself out and got better every time I rode it.
I can't remember what you have and haven't done so sorry if I'm repeating myself.
Throttle bodies need to be balanced (not part of this issue but is key to getting them running right, and a bugger to do if they're not. I don't faff with trying to hold 2k revs on the throttle while doing them, I fit T pieces with an additional piece of pipe so the IACV is connected as well as the balancer the whole time. You get a more accurate result because the throttle bodies are closed as they should be and you are only balancing the IACV flows. And I know that is done by cracking the TBs open slightly but you get my drift).
Using TuneECU cycle the IACV with the engine off and listen for it cycling. If the tank is off it watch it, should move smoothly through out it's range.
The stepper setting should be around 35 steps. Make a note of what it is before you start, try setting it at 35 first (bearing in mind -2 to 35 is a masssive jump) and see what happens. When it's right blipping the throttle will have a clean pick up without bogging and overrun shouldn't pop and bang too much. If 35 is nearly right only change a couple of steps at time because it only needs small changes. It could be it's trimmed itself down to -2 due to the pipe problem.
Thanks
Where is the stepper setting in tuneECU ?
Quote from: jamman on March 19, 2016, 09:36:45 PM
Thanks
Where is the stepper setting in tuneECU ?
Highlighted... not arrow.
so I should set the IACV to 35 ? It was set to 0
Quote from: Bixxer Bob on March 14, 2016, 12:04:20 PM
only change a couple of steps at time because it only needs small changes.
I would say what Bixxer Bob says... :icon_salut:
Quote from: jamman on March 14, 2016, 05:26:56 AM
Redid the vacuum lines with fuel line made sure none are pinched ... no change ...
When its cold idles ok right at 1000 RPM when pulling in the clutch to stop ... when it gets good and warmed up dives to 200-300 rpm and sometime recovers slowly back to 1000 RPMs but most of the time it dies unless I let the engine slowly wind down coming to a light before pulling in the clutch ..
I remember when I first got TuneECU going I changed the IACV setting by accident I think it was -2 if I remember correctly and it is set to 0 now .. not sure if that could affect this ...
Any suggestions are welcome thanks much !
I'm having the same issues... almost like the bike hiccups after warmed up and sitting at idle or coasting. I too have replaced the vacuum lines, installing an elbow isn't a bad idea. Have been leaning towards replacing my coils. :m
Can't seem to get TuneECU to work... maybe because the headlight fuse also kills the fuel pump (as I've read here).
Watching this thread very closely. :new_popcornsmiley
Quote from: jamman on March 20, 2016, 01:57:42 AM
so I should set the IACV to 35 ? It was set to 0
Sorry mate,been offline for a while. Yes, adjust toward 35 in small steps. It should work out to be around 35. The optimum is when you blip the throttle and the revs pick up cleanly without hesitation and drop back to idle without too much popping. One side of optimum it'll bog before picking up and drop back smoothly, the other side of optimum it'll pick up cleanly but pop abd bang dropping back.
AS always, make a noteof take a phot of the readings before you start so you can go back to them if necessary.
All
Yes adjusted up to 35 and it runs great !! idles nicely now no more issue ...
Enjoying the ride once again !!
Thanks everyone especially Bixer for the help !!!
Gary
:thumbsup