Okay so my rear pads were toast today and I can tell they have been dragging a bit at times so I cleaned everything up real good and indeed the one piston is a bit slow to respond. Mine is a very late Girly (1050 case etc). I went to my local dealer's online list and they don't have (or have the seals listed but you can get the seal and piston together) for the cast wheel bikes. Looking at Fleabay there is a couple uk sellers that list the seals (and a couple other parts) and some say 04-06 and others say 92-12 for the same kit. Would prefer to get from my dealer just for time sake but hoping someone can chime in. Also, how hard are these to do? Never did brake calipers as all my cars I simply bought remanned for the price of me rebuilding 'em.
Yep, although there have been a couple of types of rear pads, pistons and seals are the same, they are 27mm for reference and the same front and back on the Girlies at least.
Some older bike parts shops can supply the seals just by size, its a Nissin caliper that is used on many different bikes, I would also replace the slider pin boots while your at it and I dont think you can get these from Triumph
Ive replaced the seals on all mine now this year(see my post above yours for the fronts) and its fairly straightforward. Its actually quite rare that you need pistons as they will normally clean up with scotchbrite and autosol, unless there is deep corrosion from winter riding. Absolute cleanliness is a must and the trickiest bit is getting the pistons out, I just gradually pump them out a bit at a time, holding one till the other catches up. You can get special pliers that grip inside the piston to make it easier but I never needed them.
Its normally the outer dust seal that causes the piston to stick and you need to clean the groove it sits in carefully with a blunt pick or dremel with brass wheel before putting the new one back and use red rubber grease too. Rear caliper is a doddle to bleed too. From memory the rear took me a couple of hours tops start to finish.
Oh yeah, just remembered, have you got a Honda dealer near you?, a Transalp 650 or 700 uses the same seals and slider pin boots on the front caliper.
Honda part nos are 06431MA3405 for the piston seals, 45132166016 for large boot and 45133MA3006 for small boot, cheaper from Honda too if memory serves me right.
Pretty much any of the 27mm seals listed for Honda, Suzuki or Kawasaki on ebay will be ok, I always buy by size rather than going bike specific as Triumph seals seem to be a bit overpriced.
Quote from: HockleyBoy on November 11, 2016, 09:40:10 AM
Pretty much any of the 27mm seals listed for Honda, Suzuki or Kawasaki on ebay will be ok, I always buy by size rather than going bike specific as Triumph seals seem to be a bit overpriced.
Same here really mate, I bought the kit off Powerhouse to do the fronts, really good quality, everything included, seals, slider boots, bleed nipples and covers, banjo washers and red grease. I would have thought our US cousins would have similar, maybe not.
Cool so these should work then right? None on this side of the pond with the slider rubber etc.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/K-S-Brake-Caliper-Seal-Kit-27mm-Rear-for-Honda-VFR700F2-Interceptor-1986-1987-/311722092338?hash=item489415a732:g:3b0AAOSwPCVYBTR4&vxp=mtr
Cant be absolutely sure but they look fine to me, that is exactly the sort of thing I buy when I change mine which is a fairly regular occurrence.
The slider rubbers are also used on a number of bikes so it worth checking any that use the nissin brakes, pretty sure the last time I changed the boots etc I used Honda parts.
Quote from: Timbox2 on November 11, 2016, 03:46:36 PM
Same here really mate, I bought the kit off Powerhouse to do the fronts, really good quality, everything included, seals, slider boots, bleed nipples and covers, banjo washers and red grease. I would have thought our US cousins would have similar, maybe not.
That kit you had certainly makes thing easier when sourcing the parts, I am guessing you can get something similar over there but probably not listed as Triumph specific.
Quote from: HockleyBoy on November 11, 2016, 06:02:18 PM
That kit you had certainly makes thing easier when sourcing the parts, I am guessing you can get something similar over there but probably not listed as Triumph specific.
If you just want the piston seals though, I think its the early Yamaha Super Ten kits that work out the cheapest, £8 odd per caliper from Yamaha, compared to £28 from Triumph. Like Triumph though, Yamaha dont do the slider boots???
Wasnt there a bloke turned up here a few years back with cheap Yamaha Piston and seal kits??
I think on this side of the pond the problem is that not many people actually do this dirty work themselves anymore. I've actually never rebuilt a brake caliper. Have always found remanned calipers for pretty much the same price as it would cost me to get the parts to rebuild it myself. On the Tiger, not so much though I did check ebay for a used caliper to rebuild first and have ready to plug and play.
Hope they get here Monday or Tuesday. Seems I'm getting a lot of vehicle issues just in time for ski season and the weather to turn colder.
Just a hint to help you not have to do these again next year. Don't use copper grease (or any other mineral grease) on the rubber parts. It causes the rubber to swell and bind. Use red rubber grease. Plenty on Ebay.
I didn't grease 'em. Just dropped the seals in some fluid then coated the pistons with some and turned 'em in. Seems to be okay. Boy the front dust seal was coded with crap and the crevis was nasty.
Quote from: benebob on November 15, 2016, 02:27:52 AM
I didn't grease 'em. Just dropped the seals in some fluid then coated the pistons with some and turned 'em in. Seems to be okay. Boy the front dust seal was coded with crap and the crevis was nasty.
Tut, tut, slapped wrists :icon_lol:
Quote from: benebob on November 15, 2016, 02:27:52 AM
I didn't grease 'em. Just dropped the seals in some fluid then coated the pistons with some and turned 'em in. Seems to be okay. Boy the front dust seal was coded with crap and the crevis was nasty.
I was meaning more the rubber boots and seals for the slider pins. I made the mistake myself; using copper grease on the pins. Then I had trouble with the brakes binding caused by the rubber swelling. Of course, the other cuse of binding brakes is the crud in the recess where the seal goes not allowing it to seat properly. As I'm sure you realised.
Well afteer about a 100 miles today. I can say the damn thing is still dragging. Fair amount of brake dust on the rear wheel and it was warm every time I got off. Fronts were nice and cold.
It might be worthwhile taking the foot lever off and lubricating the pivot pin and check and clean/lube the clevis pin linking the lever to the m/c. Also check that the small lever return spring is correctly in place.
When you changed the piston seals, you did dig ALL the crap out of the seal groove with a scriber or similar didn't you??? Otherwise the seals don't go all the way in and cause the pistons to bind. It's the number one cause of dragging brakes. Number two is the wrong grease on the rubber.
I checked all that stuff. Pedal goes back all the way. If I burp the bleeder I don't get anything out under pressure either. Just got back from 348 mile ride today. Rear brake rotor was too hot to touch. Fronts cold as the 32 degree weather. Dust all over the rear wheel. Any other thoughts I'm at a loss. Of course there aren't any on ebay now either. :(
Overhaul the master cylinder of you haven't already.
Honestly, I'm at the point that I'm frustrated with the bike and may simply start looking elsewhere rather than throw expensive parts that shouldn''t be failing to begin with at it. Put a different pad on today only to see that the seals are leaking. Guess I should have bought triumph ones but the sad reality is coming to light that it is not a honda and will take quite a lot of upkeep in the next couple of years to keep it still worth the $2500 they are going for over hear. Maybe I'll feel different tomorrow but probably not when I fork over $42 for 4 little triumph seals.
Ahh, come on Bob, thank F... its NOT a Honda is what I say. The reason I came back for my second Girly is a number of reasons but top of the list is as Chris C says, Its a bike with few skeletons in the cupboard. Fuel couplings and maybe charging issues, but thats about it. I actually also bought the Gen Triumph seals for the rear caliper earlier in the year before I knew I could get decent pattern ones over here, youve been unlucky, but any older bike is going to require a bit of maintenance, that type of caliper is known to need upkeep on any make bike. I personally will throw money at my Girly if it needs it as in reality there are few bikes with so much for so little.
Take a deep breath mate :icon_biggrin:
Blimey Tim and I must have some kind of crystal ball because this is exactly the conversation we had during the week.
I still view my Tiger just like a did when I wheeled it out of the showroom nearly 16 years ago it's done a lot for us over the years with great trips and experiences and as it slides into old age I'll spend what I have to with no short cuts and genuine parts short of it throwing a rod out of the case.
By comparison the other option is to buy new and change every couple if years I bought my XR1000 in March and if I unloaded it now I'd get a mighty financial kicking hence why I keep them years by far the best value.
Getting back on track my Tiger has 40,000 on it and I've done the same with it as all the other bikes and that is I strip the pads out twice a year and clean the calipers till their back to like new can be done in less than half an hour with a shot of WD and a tooth brush.
Quote from: benebob on December 02, 2016, 10:50:43 PM
Honestly, I'm at the point that I'm frustrated with the bike and may simply start looking elsewhere rather than throw expensive parts that shouldn''t be failing to begin with at it. Put a different pad on today only to see that the seals are leaking. Guess I should have bought triumph ones but the sad reality is coming to light that it is not a honda and will take quite a lot of upkeep in the next couple of years to keep it still worth the $2500 they are going for over hear. Maybe I'll feel different tomorrow but probably not when I fork over $42 for 4 little triumph seals.
it sounds likely that the seals could be fitted the wrong way, I don't think it's been mentioned but they have a tapered edge which must slope outwards, this would cause it to both drag and leak.
Just to be that man from the department of the bleedin obvious
If you've not done calipers before, it's not rocket science, BUT, they need to be done right.
On my Steamer, which I think is the same brake, I had hot disc after the disc was replaced.
It didn't really drag though, but boy was it hot.
I bought a replacement master assy off ebay, stripped and refurbed it with red rubber grease etc, and re-did the caliper the same, using new seals etc.
Still had a hot brake disc, to the point it would burn your skin.
Bought a NEW Triumph caliper assy with pads from Triumph during there last parts bonanza, and still hot, but not dragging.
Finally stopped worrying, and just rode the thing.
Other than hot. it worked perfectly, with no dragging I could feel, so I just left it.
Got better with time, so possibly bedding in issue.
Not sure where I'm going with this, but I do know you need to ensure you're not refitting seals in a gummed up groove, to constrict the movement.
I'm also not sure about the tapered seal mentioned by Jaydub. My understanding was they were square profile seals, if the were tapered, it would restrict movement in one direction, imho.
Hope that's the case.
Happy to be proved wrong if required....
You could be looking at collapsing brake hoses, misalignment and all sorts of other fun stuff too.
Some caliper seals are tapered, Im sure thats not the case with these un's, Ive done all 3 this year and I would have noticed.
Quote from: Timbox2 on December 03, 2016, 01:45:47 PM
Some caliper seals are tapered, I'm sure thats not the case with these un's, Ive done all 3 this year and I would have noticed.
The seals on my steamer are definitely tapered, I just been to the shed and examined them on my spare set :nod
@ Phil -every kwak, suzuki, honda and yam I have refurbed brake calipers on have had tapered seals.. I believe its the case on all hydraulics, fork seals too.
Quote from: JayDub on December 03, 2016, 06:30:15 PM
The seals on my steamer are definitely tapered, I just been to the shed and examined them on my spare set :nod
@ Phil -every kwak, suzuki, honda and yam I have refurbed brake calipers on have had tapered seals.. I believe its the case on all hydraulics, fork seals too.
But Jay, this aint a Steamer, and I can confirm now, Girlies use square profile seals. Even the Haynes book of lies says profiled seals only fitted to Daytona, Speed Triple etc with 4 pot calipers.
Sorted Tim! wasn't saying anyone was wrong, just what I knew to be the case, Never had a triumph before and I thought girlies used the same calipers... OK, database updated.
I checked te service manual and all it said was "make sure the pistons and seals are refitted the same way the originals"
lets hope that benebob bought square profile and not tapered seals for his. :icon_eek:
Quote from: JayDub on December 03, 2016, 08:47:43 PM
Sorted Tim! wasn't saying anyone was wrong, just what I knew to be the case, Never had a triumph before and I thought girlies used the same calipers... OK, database updated.
I checked te service manual and all it said was "make sure the pistons and seals are refitted the same way the originals"
lets hope that benebob bought square profile and not tapered seals for his. :icon_eek:
I think its more a case that he may have bought badly manufactured seals, plenty of them on ebay apparently.
Wierd thing here on the tapered seal matter. I replaced the rear seals on my Girly a couple of months ago and examined them to look for taper, but didn't appear to be any. However when I went to insert the piston I found that the front lip was flush with the bore and the rear sat up slightly allowing the piston to go in easily.
I assumed therefore that the seal was non-tapered but the bottom of the bore groove was, to simplify assembly ?
Bought new triumph seals and pistons for a pretty freaking penny today. Not taper that I could see at all but the old seals were dragging the way they were. Now new pistons and seals so we shall see. Sadly it is the rotors that are stupid money and the soon to need fork overhall that has me as much upset. Then there is the freaking clutch that is freaking crap and sticks until I let the engine heat up until the fans come one no matter what (I have the 1050 clutch). Had the Tiger 800 sitting at the shop been an XC not an XR I might have came home with it for 7k with bags and 25k on the odo minus the lump that is proving to being a maint. nightmare. I say that clearly as the owner of 3 Jags and a TVR. The tiger takes more time and beer than the other 4 combined and it as 400k less miles than the others. :)
Quote from: Ossian on December 03, 2016, 09:48:38 PM
Wierd thing here on the tapered seal matter. I replaced the rear seals on my Girly a couple of months ago and examined them to look for taper, but didn't appear to be any. However when I went to insert the piston I found that the front lip was flush with the bore and the rear sat up slightly allowing the piston to go in easily.
I assumed therefore that the seal was non-tapered but the bottom of the bore groove was, to simplify assembly
That's the best logic to date Ossian :nod
Well it isn't leaking anymore and I don't think it is dragging as bad (but still dragging a little or I seem to get a whole lot more rear dust than front dust). Problem is the freaking sticky clutch is killing me. I don't ride long distances most days and it isn't heating up.
I don't see a mention of doing the master cylinder, they get neglected, especially the rear. The tiny vent in the bore is easily blocked. I know the master seal kits are expensive but they are worth doing.
I actually change my brake fluid annually on the bike as I have always done so mine has been taken care of well considering. But that isn't gonna change the horrible clutch either.
Still fiddling around with the clutch on mine, going to try replacing one of the thicker steels with one of the thinner ones next to see if that helps.