Possible damage on EBay bike - a first for me

[nicktulloh]

So my new 2005 Tiger arrived today. My primary concern is that it was shipped WITHOUT the four upper engine mount bolts in place. The PO states that the engine guards were removed a few weeks ago and it hasn't been started or ridden since.

Any ideas as to possible damage? TPS, cables, hoses, seals etc etc etc?

[Mustang]

more than likely no damage was done , but the tiger engine is a big part of the equation to the frame , it's what is called a stressed member .
get some correct bolts in there and all should be well

[Bixxer Bob]

Read up the fitting thereof.  There's a correct sequence for torquing them up.  Getting it wrong shouldn't cause a problem, but has been associated with excessive engine vibes.

But why would someone remove the engine guards and then think 'I can't be arsed to put the engine mounts back?'

[Ironhorse]

Where could one find the sequence? I am about to build crash bars for my '01 and will be needing to know. Joe

[nicktulloh]

Where could one find the sequence? I am about to build crash bars for my '01 and will be needing to know. Joe

It's in the service manual. I'll try to remember to post it tomorrow.

[Timbox2]

Where could one find the sequence? I am about to build crash bars for my '01 and will be needing to know. Joe

Left and Right from sitting on bike.

1) Fit bracket to LH cyl Head, tighten 2 bracket to head bolts only.(30Nm)
2)L/H front Mount Bolt (80Nm)
3)R/H front mount bolt(80Nm)
4)L/H head Bracket to frame bolt (80Nm)
5) L/H Upper rear then lower rear (80Nm)
6) R/H Middle Bolt (80Nm)
7) R/H Upper Rear then Lower rear(80Nm)
lastly Swingarm Pivot Bolt if disturbed (85Nm)

 :D

[nicktulloh]

I'm soliciting input on this situation.

The Tiger was advertised on EBay as not having been wrecked. To be precise, the scratches on the tank were referenced as not the result of a wreck.

A phone call to the seller resulted in a description of the tank scratches as normal wear and tear from moving it around in the garage.

I was kind of caught up in the missing motor mount bolt issue at first, but quickly realized that there was another issue - the bike had clearly been down. The scratches on the tanks were actually gouges. The bottom of the alternator cover is ground down, the brake pedal is quite bent and hit the clutch cover.

The next phone call to the seller resulted in an admission that the bike had been crashed "on ice".

I'm doing the EBay buyer protection thing but I'm thinking about bailing out of it and reaching an agreement one on one.

The seller has agreed to pay for new motor mount bolts and labor to install them. He refuses to accept any responsibility for the crash damage (his position is caveat emptor, I failed in my duty as a buyer to request additional pictures or request that the bike be taken to the local dealer for an inspection).

I've bought and sold dozens of bikes on EBay and have never been in anything resembling this situation.

Parts and labor at the dealer to totally redeem the crash damage plus the motor mount bolts is around $2000.

It's not in my nature to be confrontational and I just don't have a good handle on what is fair here. I would never have bid on the bike if I'd known it had been crashed.

Any ideas on what's fair?

[Bixxer Bob]

My opinion, for what it's worth, is he misled you when he said it wasn't crashed. He can't claim Buyer Beware when he's deliberately lied to you. If you didn't ask fair enough, but you did and he lied. That's it.

[Chris Canning]

Sadly one of my many problems I'm blunt so here goes.

If you've bought and sold dozens of bikes on ebay and not had this happen before then your lucky(very)

The bottom line!!,you've been had,buying a bike without seeing it in the flesh you must be stark raving mad,you use the word 'fair' not a word I've ever come across buying and selling anything never mind bikes,start using that word your depending on things that your not in control of.

The bottom line you didn't do your home work and the seller has had you over,what ever you do will result in agreat deal of blood pressure and little else unless you can prove you asked if it was damaged and he said no and you can prove it.

Does it stink?? absolutely but I'd suggest anyone of a certain age who's bought and sold bikes has either been this route or close,just part of a learning curve,we have a system in the Uk for checking a bikes history,but it still won't show anything if there hasn't been an insurance claim.

Unless you think you can brow beat the seller,even though it's your mistake,I'd concentrate on the bike,is it straight? what else is missing apart from bolts they'll cost pennies to replace labour!!! about 5 minutes if that,second hand tanks are cheap as well as there's so little demand or put a Bagster cover over it.

Put it down to experience and carry on lifes way to short,and you'll have learned(lots) from it,or give yourself a heart attack trying to get your money back.

Sorry for being to the point.

[Mustang]

the man from Birmingham nailed it .................

you will not get any where with ebay resolution except high blood pressure .

buy a new alt . cover from ebay cover the tank with bagster , new brake lever


ride and enjoy

[Mustang]

[nicktulloh]

Blunt is good.

But.

You have the advantage of living in the middle of a very small country. Three hours and you're in person at 90% of the bikes for sale. Me, I can't just hop on the M6 for a quick doodle to escape being characterized as stark raving mad.

If people weren't willing to buy on the strength of several photos and a written description, EBay motors could not exist in the US. It is unrealistic to expect someone to travel 2000 miles to examine a $4000 bike in person and the risk/reward of paying $500 for an appraisal doesn't pencil out.

Here, the homework is the pictures (more can be requested but in this case they looked adequate), the listing (you can usually tell when someone is trying to hide something or the bike is otherwise wonky), and in this case, a phone call specifically resulting in being told that the bike hadn't been wrecked.

Lucky? Maybe. Before the exchange rate went TU I brought bikes up from Australia to sell here, mostly WLAs but a few others. I travelled to look at the first two but not the next thirty and not once did I get burned like this.

I'm one of the most cynical people you'd meet but it's just not on the odds that I've been lucky several dozen times. I think most guys selling bikes are pretty honest. Frame of reference can make your beauty someone else's beast but on the whole, I think bike guys are pretty straight. I've sold bikes where the buyer niggled on delivery and I comped used parts or something to even it out. I've eaten minor discrepancies because of that frame of reference thing.

This is different. The intial mechanical fu was bad enough but the rest is outright deception for 40% of the value of the bike.

Will I change the way I do business? Probably not. Life is too short to suspect everyone, especially when experience proves otherwise.

Oh, and yeah, I have bought bikes in the UK. Three of them. Two around London and one in Aberdeen. Two sight unseen. I was a little disappointed with one of them but it was nothing I would have known from an inspection and nothing the seller was trying to conceal.

So yeah, blunt is good. Let me be blunt. If this sounds reasonable to you, and that the successful deception is on me, then I would never consider buying a vehicle from you.

Take care,

Nick

Sadly one of my many problems I'm blunt so here goes.

If you've bought and sold dozens of bikes on ebay and not had this happen before then your lucky(very)

The bottom line!!,you've been had,buying a bike without seeing it in the flesh you must be stark raving mad,you use the word 'fair' not a word I've ever come across buying and selling anything never mind bikes,start using that word your depending on things that your not in control of.

The bottom line you didn't do your home work and the seller has had you over,what ever you do will result in agreat deal of blood pressure and little else unless you can prove you asked if it was damaged and he said no and you can prove it.

Does it stink?? absolutely but I'd suggest anyone of a certain age who's bought and sold bikes has either been this route or close,just part of a learning curve,we have a system in the Uk for checking a bikes history,but it still won't show anything if there hasn't been an insurance claim.

Unless you think you can brow beat the seller,even though it's your mistake,I'd concentrate on the bike,is it straight? what else is missing apart from bolts they'll cost pennies to replace labour!!! about 5 minutes if that,second hand tanks are cheap as well as there's so little demand or put a Bagster cover over it.

Put it down to experience and carry on lifes way to short,and you'll have learned(lots) from it,or give yourself a heart attack trying to get your money back.

Sorry for being to the point.