unsteady flasher relay?

[Marc]

So, after a short trip (10 km) this was the reading on the meter:

- 14,10 volts
- contact on: 13,60 V.
- startin: drop to 12V. and idl at 15,50V.
- revs up to 3000rpm. ... drop from 15,50 to 14,30V.

this figures looks to me very high.

Another thing I noticed: the faster flashing uccurs only on the left side when revs are going up >1500rpm.  When revs drop to idling, the flashing turns to  normal.
 :?:  :?:

After 2 hours, with engine cold the reading was the same.

[Bixxer Bob]

Sooooo , are we saying the flashing isn't regular but rises with engine revs?

You're right, those figures are a bit high; certainly the 15v plus.

If it's only one side check out the contacts in the switch. If they're ok follow through on the wiring and earths for that side.  I don't have my Triumph manual to hand so someone else will chip in shortly with the reg test voltages.

[Marc]

Thanks BB.  As a start, I'll take the switch apart.

Sooooo , are we saying the flashing isn't regular but rises with engine revs?

Right, only the left flashing speed is high >1500rpm.  When pulling the cluth (in a road situation) and engine revs drop to idle, then de flashing speed drops to normal as well.

You're right, those figures are a bit high; certainly the 15v plus.

It looks strange to me that de voltage drops when pulling the revs up.  I thought the voltage should rise from approx. 13V up to 14,50.. :?:

[Marc]

Meanwhile I'm trying to understand all this:

http://www.electrexworld.co.uk/pdfs/Tro ... G-&-RR.pdf

http://tigertriple.com/forum/index.php/topic,10206

http://tigertriple.com/forum/index.php/topic,3843

http://tigertriple.com/forum/viewtopic. ... =regarding

 :roll:

[metalguru]

Marc
Don't take it the wrong way but a simple test as you are saying you are a bit unsure about electrics, there is a black connector from the generator with 3 yellow wires going to it, when the engine is running if this seems to get very warm then there is a problem there, as one of your references shows the rewiring, its not as hard as it looks and you are shortening the cables from generator to battery, this makes the charging circuit better.

If you have voltmeter to hand, take apart the connection with yellow cables, set meter to AC volts, connect black meter wire to battery -ve.
start engine and touch red meter cable to each yellow cables in turn.
If my memory serves well (DOH) the voltage should read more than 30 volts. I think this will be ok, but just good to check.

Are you close to Geel as have friends there who could help?

[TigerTrax]

When it comes to electrical.... think simple first!
You have one 3 position switch with moving contacts; You have 4 bulbs
subject to vibrarion and moisture (check solder joints ); You have a relay ... but it's pretty secure and dry with a rubber boot. Those are the obvious places to check.
 
I think I would put the old bulb back in the indicator.
The LEDs are a tricky bunch.
 
If all looks good.... then you have to start digging in. I'd start at the battery and fuse box... checking everything.

BTW: Do the 'rewire' at the regulator... it does help.

[Marc]

ok metalguru and TigerTrax, there is some basic checking to do first.
(I understand and can do most basis electrics, but unfortunately I'm not an electronic engineer  :(  )

Are you close to Geel as have friends there who could help?

not really.... approx. 150 km from Bruges.

[Marc]

So 'metalguru', I did the test as you discribed:
reading on the meter: NADA  :shock:   On all 3 yellow cable points 0.00

Seems no good?  :(
   
I also did the test as discribed here:
http://www.electrexworld.co.uk/pdfs/Tro ... G-&-RR.pdf

Step 4 - Simple Meter Test for RR (Regulator Rectifier Unit)
Disconnect the RR from the bike. Select DIODE test range on the meter. This causes the meter to
push out typically 1mA of test current, the display shows the resulting voltage across the test piece.
When no test piece is connected the meter output voltage goes higher than about 2 volts so the meter
displays "over-range".

Connect the RED meter clip to the BLACK RR wire, and use the BLACK meter probe to test in turn
each of the YELLOW wires on the RR. The meter should read between 0V350 and 0V750 for each
of the 3 measurements.

Connect the BLACK meter clip to the RED RR wire, and use the RED meter probe to test in turn
each of the YELLOW wires on the RR. The meter should read between 0V350 and 0V750 for each
of the 3 measurements.

• Any readings higher than 0V750 indicate an open circuit or bad joint within the RR.
• Any readings lower than 0V350 indicate a short circuited rectifier or thyristor within the RR.

Although this simple test can never prove an RR is good, it can often show that an RR is defective.

All readings >0V350 and <0V750
means no problem evident.

Any readings <0V350>0V750
means RR is defective.
RR must be replaced.

Result: on all 3 yellow cable points apprx. 1050  :shock:

This all looks to me the RR is defective ??

[metalguru]

I can see where these measurements would lead to that conclusion. The confusing thing is all the measurements are identical?? If the RR has failed would all 3 diode circuits fail together by the same amount?

Before throwing the RR in the bin, The test I asked for with the 3 yellow wires from the generator, I think I missed out start the engine and read volts AC at 4000 rpm.

Make sure earth (black) connections to battery + engine and frame are clean, make sure the yellow wire connector is good as this wiring from the generator plug to the RR and then battery is one that can give many problems. The rewire looks tricky but all you are doing is connecting the 3 yellow, the red and the black wires in a better way than the factory.

[Marc]

The confusing thing is all the measurements are identical??

well, I wrote 'approx.'  In fact 2 yellow wires showed 1029 en the other one 1059.  But this figures are not stable!  They jump a little up and down.  I think 1029 and 1059 was average.

and read volts AC at 4000 rpm.

Ha!  :idea:  ok, I read at idle speed.

Note: the battery connections and yellow wire plug are in very good condition.  

So, another test at 4000 rpm  

but all you are doing is connecting the 3 yellow, the red and the black wires in a better way than the factory.

Do you mean: check all contacts that they are clean and give good contact?or simply change by better plugs?

[metalguru]

Apologies for not seeing different figures but they are very similar in value. This test is good but only testing the diodes in rectifier, the problem may be in regulator circuits. Don't want you to spend money if not needed.

When you look at 1st picture here http://tigertriple.com/forum/index.php/topic,3843
This connector is the one that needs attention to complete the tests, it is from this connector to the battery wiring that usually needs replacing, but good idea to check condition, it made the charging circuit more stable and stronger. Many have found this rewire works well.

To test pull this connector apart and with meter on DC volts, red wire of meter to red wire from RR. Black wire of meter to battery earth. Using the same revs as before,

- 14,10 volts
- contact on: 13,60 V.
- startin: drop to 12V. and idl at 15,50V.
- revs up to 3000rpm. ... drop from 15,50 to 14,30V.
Are the new figures the same as you found before at the battery?

Just out of interest, what sort of voltmeter are you using?

[Marc]

Ha  :idea:  at last I understand this "rewire" thing by reading the thread where that picture is.  I understand this is the Sasquatch Fix.

I'll do the tests over on the week-end.  (For the moment the battery still gives 14V and 13,50 contact on.) Have'nt done the rest.
BTW.. my black/red connector seems good, and full of grease.

My digital multimeter is a Topcraft TDMM-8184, actually a rather cheap one.

Thanx so far!

[Marc]

@ mg: that's my multimeter:

If you have voltmeter to hand, take apart the connection with yellow cables, set meter to AC volts, connect black meter wire to battery -ve.
start engine and touch red meter cable to each yellow cables in turn.
If my memory serves well (DOH) the voltage should read more than 30 volts. I think this will be ok, but just good to check.

indeed, this seems ok. Approx. 33V

To test pull this connector apart and with meter on DC volts, red wire of meter to red wire from RR. Black wire of meter to battery earth. Using the same revs as before,

- 14,10 volts
- contact on: 13,60 V.
- startin: drop to 12V. and idl at 15,50V.
- revs up to 3000rpm. ... drop from 15,50 to 14,30V.
Are the new figures the same as you found before at the battery?

This are the figures with the above test:
- 12,02 V
- contact on: 11,42 V
- starting: drop to 9,70 V and idl at 11,20
- revs op to 3000/4000rpm...litle drop to 11,17

These are all other figures! What must all this learn to me  :?:

Anyway, I'll do the 'rewire' thing.  Anyhow, looks an interesting job.

[metalguru]

Meter is good just ensure battery inside is good.

There are different voltage readings here, when you separated the connector were you testing the cable to the RR or the battery? The reading should be taken for the output of the RR.

[Marc]

Thanks mg for your effort!

The battery is new: Yuasa YTX14-BS

I was indeed testing the black/red cable to the battery, because the other end to the RR showed no reading  -0.00   :oops:

I just did it again on the black/red cable to the RR, and again no reading at all.  Not with contact on, not with engine running 1200 to 4000, not with contact off... 0.00 on the meter  :?: