Opinions of the R1200GS

[Bar]

The VSTROM is better all round.



The GS has one factor you fail to mention-PRESENCE.



I have owned a few bikes mainly super bikes, and must say that BMW has status. It could be argued that this is not important, but I ride for pleasure.  The status and presence ads to the overhaul pleasure of riding.



I own a 05  Vstrom which is certainly better than the Tiger (and cheaper)

and probably better than the GS, but I have still ordered the BMW. Not intended to start a war. just test them.



There is justÓ something" riding and owning a GS.  Would never have brought the 1150.

[JRO]

The GS has one factor you fail to mention-PRESENCE.



 status.



 The status and presence ads to the overhaul pleasure of riding.



There is justÓ something" riding and owning a GS.

You're right, Bar.  Be sure to get a BMW cigaretter lighter, keychain, riding suit, flashlight, polo-shirt, rainsuit.... Oh, and don't forget the BMW condoms - You won't need 'em, but you'd better have some.



It's the 'status', you see.  Imagine the 'pleasure' you'll enjoy, merely from the  feeling that everyone around you KNOWS you ride a BMW.  It says something about a man...



It says you're a geek.  The kind of a guy who'd post to a thread that's been dead for 16 months, about YOUR BMW. You have a 'presence' about you, whether on the road, on just lolling about a filling station enjoying a brief respite from the highways, smoking a Virginia Slim and taking a sip of Perrier from your BMW Liquid Hydration System Pak... And waiting to tell any passer-by about your BMW motorcycle.



It says 'you've arrived', and that's a good thing.  You'll be arriving at your dealership more often, where you can talk about your BMW, frequently, while the service dept. takes you for all they can. Maybe you'll be arriving at your bank more often, too.  Just to explain that overdraft - you know, the one you had for what you THOUGHT was going to be a 'routine maintenence' visit, but turned into something else.



It says 'you're cool'.  You can park beside some PTA moms at The Green Frog for brunch, and tell 'em, "It's a BMW".  You can tell the check-out-girl at your local fueling stop 'what you paid for your bike'. You can also impress small neighborhood children with your BMW Venting Machine Suit riding gear, Garmin GPS/FRS/GMRS radio/radar/laser/heatseekingmissle detector, Blaupunkt MP3 player, Shoei TC-5 helmet, Italian riding boots,  (wow - were you in Star Wars?)...That is, until they drift up the street to see that guy's Fatboy with all that chrome - HE'LL start it up for them and let 'em experience that 'whump whump whump' ("just twist that throttle, kid... sounds cool, don't it?").



Yeah, you'll have status.  Presence. Just like... Steve McQueen?



Oh... No, more like Pee-Wee Herman.



Good luck with your BMW (snarf, snarf, snarf).  Oh, by the way, the GS is the other BMW model that suffers catastrophic rear-drive failure.  An example, from the NHTSA:

 2002 BMW R1150GS MOTORCYCLE SUFFERED A FAILURE OF THE FINAL DRIVE ASSEMBLY IN THE SHAFT DRIVE MECHANISM. THERE WAS NO WARNING. THE SEAL BLEW OUT AND THE SHAFT BEARINGS DISINTEGRATED CAUSING THE WHEEL TO HOP UP AND DOWN SEVERELY AT ABOUT 70 MPH. I WAS ABLE TO PULL THE BIKE OVER SAFELY WITHOUT A CRASH. THE ENTIRE FINAL DRIVE WILL HAVE TO BE REPLACED. FORTUNATELY, IT IS STILL UNDER WARRANTY. HAD IT FAILED LITERALLY 30 SECONDS EARLIER, I WOULD HAVE BEEN LEANED WAY OVER IN A VERY TIGHT CORNER AND THE LIKELIHOOD OF A SERIOUS ACCIDENT WOULD HAVE BEEN EXTREMELY HIGH. THE LEAKING GEAR OIL COATED THE REAR TIRE CAUSING IT TO BECOME VERY SLICK. IT ALSO COATED THE REAR BRAKE PADS CAUSING THEM TO BECOME INEFFECTIVE. THE BIKE IS NOW AT THE DEALERSHIP AWAITING REPAIRS



Don't bother looking for reports like that on Triumph - there aren't any.  Just enjoy the presence your status is going to give you around others.  After all, you're the kind of guy who thinks a V-Strom is the best thing going, but you'd rather ride a BMW, because it'll get you some attention(?).



Sucker.

[Patrick the Scot]

Very well said JRO! You put in prose, so accutely, many of my own sentiments.  That FINAL DRIVE FAILURE at speed is the dirtiest non-secret that I know about concerning any wheeled vehicle.  That one really bothers me.  



Also, I thought that this post was familiar.... I posted on it over 1 year ago.  At that time I thought my local two-wheeled BMW brethern were cool people.  Wrong! One the whole they are arrogant and eletist.  The only guy I ride with that is BMW is Duaner out of Austin, and he is more than willing to curse the BMW sales and service system. He loves the handling and power of his LT, however you never heard such bitching about the service department at Lonestar.  



Bar: I really hope you will stick with the forum.  And please, the V-strom thing? Please re-think that.  Go ride a Tiger. Go and dive head first into the Celtic blood of Triumph and you will see that not only is the Suzuk not as well built as the Triumph, but it also lacks a soul.

[thx1158]

Posted by me at i-bmw.com



Well...I sold my K1200GT. After a few ABS failures (R1150RT twice and 1 on the GT), I've decided to move to a Triumph Tiger. I loved my BMW's but just felt I couldnt trust the servo's. I looked hard at a GS but agin...didnt want to mess with the servo braking system. I have really enjoyed my time here..and learned much. See you down the road....

__________________



CanÌt forget the Servo breaking system, the German Lawsuit against BMW for them or the recall in the US for a "fix" to the servos. Then there is the dealer fees for bleeding the system and God forbid you need to replace any of the parts associated with the "Wonder System". Go hot into a bend and squeeze the lever only to find it back to the bar with NO stopping power only to slowly build residual breaking. It will give you a different kind of "Presence" and the Status assoicated with changing your drawers if you stop without crashing. There are quite a few of us Beemer guys who have moved to other bikes or refuse to ride the servo models. Check some of the other sites and read the posts.

[Jim S]

Just thought I'd add my tuppenceworth, I chased a GS 1150 a few weeks back with my Tiger, we were following a local enduro event and had a chase between stages. I could not keep up with the GS out of corners or away from junctions. Every time the Beemer opened up I could see the gap opening. I think rather than twist and go power delivery of the twin the Tiger needs to be worked. I still feel my Varadero was quicker, I could keep up with the Beemer on it, but of course, a twin. Relatively new to the Tiger I'm not used to it yet.



Brake horsepower is one thing, it's power, but comes in at higher revs, torque is more usable and across the rev range.



A Tiger in the right hands would probably be on a par if not quicker getting there, and as I proved is faster top end. I'm not a fan of the Beemer, I just can't get used to the look of the thing. It's not for me.



The Tiger's more nimble, faster, handles better and IMO looks better.

[Patrick the Scot]

You can also impress small neighborhood children with your BMW Venting Machine Suit riding gear, Garmin GPS/FRS/GMRS radio/radar/laser/heatseekingmissle detector, Blaupunkt MP3 player, Shoei TC-5 helmet, Italian riding boots,  (wow - were you in Star Wars?)....

Here is a BMW Rider for you. He switch to an ST 1300 and bolted on all the fish finder crap that he had on his Beemer.  It looks like a great deal of distractions to me.

[wasions]

Quote from Bob Hibler:  Long ago, it was "How do I ride?; now we're slanting towards "How do I look?"



-  July 2006 Road Bike Magazine (page 98 )



I get really frustrated these days.  Used to be, if you had a Honda 160, you could tour on it.  I knew folks who did.  My first new bike was an adventure bike - a '69 Suzuki TC120 Cat.  (Hmmmm.  Full circle? - You decide.)  Riding a motorcycle was really about the ride, then.  Not about the bike, or the persona, or the leather 'n chrome, or the db level.  (Well, for some, it was about the db level.   :roll:  )



When I got the Tiger, an HD owner (as opposed to HD rider) said I'd be sorry, 'cause it "won't be worth nothin' when you go to trade", as if, when I'm deciding which bike I want, I'm also deciding how soon I'll want to get shed of it.  Funny thing - his bike's been torn down as much as it's been together (torn up?), adding chromie do-dad's, speed (sic) items, etc.  He's just recently gotten it back on the road after the engine was reassembled.  It needed a thousand something dollar 'diamond cut' (real bad).  So he has it out last weekend and hears a clatter or something from his engine.  He decides to take it to the local HD palace to (pause) TRADE THE THING (!) and they offer him, like, 12 grand on a new bike.  His is an '04, something over 18 G's new, with some 10 more added for good measure.  (I'm laughing - inside - he's sort of my boss.)



This stuff goes on all the time.  The black-leather clad, and the Rolex banded, both know it does, but they still follow their lemming leaders right over the same cliff - again, and again.



I just don't get it - and they don't understand why not!



Aside:  On the 17th, we'll be doing a 'corrections ride' from mid-central-southern Illinois, to Sikeston, MO.  Except for three or four Gold Wings, I expect to be the only standard.  The other thirty, or so, will be on cruisers.  I know why.  It's because they're cool.   :roll:   Sort of makes me wish I still had my 650 Burgman.    :)

[Bar]

OK guys-you have had your fun with the GS why no mention of my other bike the VSTROM.



LetÌs hear you slate it as well- until you come up against one on any road surface with a decent rider on board both bikes. The DL is simply better, full stop!!!



 I do admit that there is one design flaw that I cannot live with is the wind buffeting at helmet level (I am 6'2"), which is almost impossible to get rid of. This makes those long haul tar rides at 180+ KPH very unpleasnt.



 All the bikes in this category are good just some are slightly better than others.   The most suitable engine configuration is a VTWIM whether 60, 70 or 90 degree. I think 70 is the way to go.  The triple has come a long way but still think the VTwin power delivery and design is most suited to this type of bike.  



Having discussions with owners of all makes most agree that the ÏdreamÓ bike would be a 1000 cc Africa Twin with 100+ Hp, 110 Nm, 30 litre fuel tank, 170/180 Kg dry weight, ABS, No linked braking, BMW type accessories and an showa on/off road suspension to sell at the price of a Tiger or Varadero.  A bike that will be in demand 20 years from now like the Yamaha Tenera,  I do not think any of the current bikes carry this status. The Honda build quality is unmatched. Honda would take the market with this type of bike and I would be first on the list.  In fact if any of the mainline manufactures made this bike it would be a hit. KTM owners might claim they already have this ÏperfectÓ bike, the KTM however has too many design issues for it to capture the top market share position.



A friend of mine owns a Triumph/Suzuki dealership and is very pro Triumph; he does avoid discussions regarding the comparison Vstrom and Tiger.  



When I brought the Vstrom I rode the Aprilla Capanord, BMW 1150Gs/650D, Tiger, Varadero and Africa Twin, the VStrom was simply better in most areas.  At the time I had a VTR and KLR. At the time it was the most unpopular choice (because of the look) with family, friends and even the dealer. I was the first to have one in the area, since they have sold a few. Most people comment without having ridden one, a shame.



To end off, most people, once the investment is made will find it difficult to be totally ÏhonestÓ with comment which is understandable.  I do honestly believe that the best adventure bike is still to come. The Vstrom, Tiger, Honda Varadero, KTM and GS are good but still not brilliant. The KTM Rotax LC8 motor weighs 58 Kg I wonder what the GS 1200 motor weighs? A nice bike would be the GS with a 1000 Vtwin motor which would slim down the beast both in profile and weight.



I also abmit that with the GS you buy into the BMW lifestyle thing, as you would with a Car. Mercedes vs Toyota type thing.



As for the personal attacks I make no comment.

[thx1158]

V-Strom?? Never owned one, never rode one, looks like a transformer to me. Past experience with Asian bikes lacked any type of character but good at what they were designed for. Industrial comes to mind. I have owned and ridded BMW's thus my comments and views on your post.

[wasions]

I've ridden both the 650 and the 1000 V-Stroms.  



The 650 was a nice ride, but felt a little underpowered.  (Understand that my ride of choice at that time was a 650 Burgman.)  Some things: handling, minimal wind buffeting,  were spot on, but the bike just didn't feel right for me.   Comfort, as I recall, was a factor.  Too much wrist pressure and all that.  I will allow that it could have been easily remedied.  Also, I only rode the bike 40 miles, or so.



The 1000 was a different bike entirely, it seemed.  I rode it a little over 100 miles.  It could have been the Corbin seat which made some of the difference, but that engine was outstanding.  Handling wasn't quite as sharp as the DL650, but  I really could have lived with the DL1000.  The whole anime theme, though, really turns me off.  Also, the Tiger came with the bags, and had integrated heated grips available.  Putting hard bags on the DL1000 makes the thing extremely wide, not to mention costly.  It'd take me some getting used to, I'm sure.  If I'd gotten the big Strom set up the same as the Tiger, the cost difference would have been minimal.  (The dealer made about $1K in concessions on the Tiger - probably would have on the Strom, too, since he sold both makes, but I preferred the Triumph.)



The DL1000's engine is sweet all the way through the range, and the sound is dramatic, but I absolutely love turbine-like feel of the 955 triple.  To my mind, it's a wash.



Oh, and there's a couple of Strom's in town, but I have the only Tiger.   :)

[JRO]

Here is a BMW Rider for you. He switch to an ST 1300 and bolted on all the fish finder crap that he had on his Beemer.  It looks like a great deal of distractions to me.

Wow.



Does he have the rocket launcher, too?

[JRO]

OK guys-you have had your fun with the GS why no mention of my other bike the VSTROM............

Bar - who cares? Why are you interested in Triumph forum members' opinions of BMW's and Suzukis? If you've chosen something other than a Tiger (and have never owned one), do you expect us to all agree with you?



Personally, I am leery of buying any motorcycle carrying more than one brand.  Or didn't you know a V-Strom is a KLV-1000, also?



Are you sure yours is the Suzuki?



Then again, you obviously don't think much of the V-Strom. If it's better than a BMW, why are you trading it off for one?  If I prefered a Piaggio to my Triumph, I'd certainly be riding one. I realize the 'status' and 'presence' of a Piaggio is superior, but what can I say?



Have you asked a Gold Wing forum what they think of your decision?  You should ask some Yamaha and Harley people, too. Somebody should tell them they've all made a mistake; they're riding bikes without 'status', and their bikes aren't as good as something else which they shouldn't be riding, because IT doesn't have the 'presence' of yet another bike that should be chosen because of...



...Two bits says you don't have a bike, anyway.

[Patrick the Scot]

...Two bits says you don't have a bike, anyway.

Ats right!



BAR, do you actually ride a two-wheeled anything? If so, where?



Have you ridden competitively, (i.e. enduros, hare-scrambles, desert, flat track, trials, super-moto, road course?)



What is the furthest trip you've done on a two-wheeler?

[JRO]

It was shameful to post a photo, with no legend.



I KNEW I had seen that before....

[Jim S]

My experience of Honda has been nothing but excellent. Five Africa twins and a Varadero, I also own a Blade and an old CB750 but they're different gendre. If Honda produced a larger, more up to date Africa (XRV) I would consider going back to them. Why? Honda's build quality and reliabilty area a winner in my eyes.



Unfortunately this is where the Vstrom fails in my eyes, the engines, 650 too breathless for two up touring, the 1000 I cannot fault, brilliant motor. Reliability is also good on the Suzuki, the only issues with them are one, the build quality and depreciation.  Try riding one here in the UK for a winter, they don't stand up well to salt. This is the main cause of depreciation. Kawasaki jumped on the "big triallie" bandwagon a few years later and decided to use the Vstrom rebadged as their product, in my opinion sums up Kawasaki.



I believe the Varadero, Vstrom, Capenord and the GS are getting too technical, with too much to go wrong, too heavy and don't really meet my personal requirements. All good bikes but just not for me.



I ride the Tiger now, 3000 miles in two months and I'm loving the bike, the build quality is on a par with Honda, the ride is comfortable and most importantly the Tiger fills my requirements. The depreciation on the Tiger is very good here in the UK, 04 models are still making around £4500 to £4800, just over £2000 less than the new prices but I'm not impressed with the dealer service charges here in the UK, I've been quoted over £400 GBP for a main service, I thought that kind of figure was only forDucati's?    But overall, I like the Tiger and I'll stick with it for a few years. :lol: