New noise - and not in a good way

[KuzzinKenny]

Here's the clip:

Hey BB !! sounds ok to me through me crappy puter speaker  but with no plugs in there's no load  !! you got ME paranoid now so before i go out on me Tigger i'll have to check her with me stethiscope or bit O tube as i call it 

i aint been in there yet  but that looks like a weird tooly thing ya need or not 

good luck

KK

[Chris Canning]

Sounds good to me as well.

[Bixxer Bob]

Kenny's right, it's not the same with no load.  And what you have to really listen for is the rattle of the sprag bearing on overrun when I take my finger off the button.  The video didn't catch it very well but I can hear it.

Once it's in bits we'll know more.  Stripping it for inspection costs nowt.

[Bixxer Bob]

This is starting to drive me nuts.  I stripped the sprag (pics later) and no signs of anything untoward except for a small mark on the retaining spring which I think is where the ends are welded together then ground off.  Also, a small area inside the housing at the deepest part of the recess which is blued and has some slight pickup marks on it.  I'd have said that was the source of the noise but I can't find anything on the sprocket that corresponds to it.  The only thing I can think of is a small piece of debris has gotten in there and has since left with the oil that drained out.  That would explain the sudden start of the noise, and the fact that it's now not as bad as it was.  Tomorrow I'm going to throw it all back together and see what happens.  Of course, that then makes one wonder where the debris came from 

[KuzzinKenny]

Hey BB !! as i've never had a sprag clutch apart or in me hand i've no idea how they work  but the book does say there should be no marks or blue bits !!

better get the magnifyin glass out and check them cogs for missin bits no matter how small !!

KK

[Bixxer Bob]

I noted your comment about blueing Kenny, the whole damn casing is blue so its' obviously been slipping in the past.  I'm putting it back together to see what happens.  Nevertheless, I can't see ANY marks that would indicate it's failing.

Some pics here:

[Mustang]

you won't see any evidence of wear , what happens is that little piece of shit spring stretches / gets weak and causes all the slipping

one of the steamer boys , ram33 , can't remember

used this spring from this oil seal to do a repair on his sprag and it worked better than new

http://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/p26993/40x62x7mm+Nitrile+Rubber+Rotary+Shaft+Oil+Seal+with+Garter+Spring+R23+/+TC/product_info.html

found the thread .read this

http://www.tigertriple.com/forum/index.php/topic,12957.msg102052.html#msg102052

[Sin_Tiger]

  if the blueing is even and there is no other indication of abnormal wear,  it's a slip issue

[Bixxer Bob]

Cheers Mustang, like wise Sin; I remember reading the spring thread at the time.  It's not like its a big deal on a Girly now I've had it apart.  It's a 15 minute job to get it off the bike and stripped to the level you see in the pics.  If necessary I'll have a go at the spring repair once I know where I'm at with it.

Ironically, I ordered two bearings from Simply Bearings today that will arrive tomorrow.  I'll order the seal for the spring tomorrow just in case I need it.

[KuzzinKenny]

I'm still tryin to get me heed around this sprag clutch thing   

i did follow Mustang's links and it did make it a bit clearer    so its a type O centrifugal arrangement where that spring holds the fingers/balls/ ?? in and when ya hit the starter button the motor spins the sprag up, the fingers/balls/?? friction engage  the casin with the gear cogs around it and that turns over the motor, yes, no ??

so if the spring weakens it drags !!

seams awfully complicated  i like kick starters 

good luck

KK

ps i did read you should NOT remove the fingers/balls/?? cos they only go in one way 

[Bixxer Bob]

I read that Kenny,  IF it gets to that point I will be very careful not to get things muddled up.  All being well, I'll know more tomorrow when I get it assembled to the point where I can try starting it.  Thing is, there's a regular beat from the exhaust when it's turning over so I don't think it's slipping; after spending ages with a stethoscope on it the noise seems to be coming from the intermediate gear housing but there is absolutely no evidence of anything being wrong in there when I have it apart.   

[NKL]

They are not like a centrifugal clutch, rpm is irrelevant to it. It is effectively a one way valve when the engine is running they just slip, the rollers are slightly oval in cross section and bite so to speak as soon as you try and turn it the opposite way. The bluing you refer to is probably the result of manufacturing heat treatment (hardened), as I say they are designed to slip in one direction and it would never spin fast enough slipping the wrong way under the starter motor to get hot enough to blue.

As Mustang says the springs go weak, some bike suffer this some don't, my XL600LMF did exactly that, spring from an old fork seal sorted it out.

[KuzzinKenny]

Cheers NKL  i get the gist O these sprag clutch things now 

KK

ps never to old to learn noo stuff  :icon_wink:   

[Sin_Tiger]

I appreciate what you say about heat treatment coloration, however, it's unlikely from manufacturing. The colour is effectively from oxidation and is normally removed after heat treatment, as even a thin layer has an effect on clearances. You will only see "blueing" remaining after manufacturing on rough machined surfaces like gear shafts where there is no contact with other moving surfaces.

[KuzzinKenny]

It's gone quiet   

:icon_wink:

KK