2005 Tiger has poor fuel mileage, low idle, won't restart hot

[tntmo]

I've had my trials and tribulations with this Tiger, but all in all I like the bike.  I took a fun four day ride last month, from California to Arizona, Utah, Nevada and back and it performed ok.  Never got over 35mpg and the idle was low but it had no problem starting.

Shortly after I got home, the idle issue got worse, the mileage got worse and the bike wouldn't start after I stop to top off the fuel tank.  I'm currently getting about 30 mpg. 

The idle is low, maybe 800 rpm or less.  It dies if I don't blip the throttle.  It won't start cold most of the time unless I give it some throttle.  I tried to mess around with the stepper motor settings on TuneECU and reset TPS but it doesn't seem to help.

The hot re-start is the worst issue.  Every time I get fuel I have to push start the bike (not easy by myself!) or take a 15 minute break or longer to let it cool off.  Once it cools down it starts up ok, idles like poo.  Embarrassing when I go on group rides, but my friends are getting good at pushing the Tiger and I'm getting good at finding gas stations on top of hills. 

I ordered up the parts to extend the fuel lines so I can balance the fuel injectors but they aren't here yet.  I'm going to start there and move on from that point. 

Does anyone else have any input?  Something to look for?  Help me keep this Tiger purring! 

[KuzzinKenny]

Hey tntmo !! have ya read this...............

http://www.tigertriple.com/forum/index.php/topic,14076.0.html

sounds similar me thinks !!

KK

[Stitch]

Recommend you start by replacing the corrugated hose with silicone including the one that runs to the ECM if it is not done yet. Check/perform a  throttle body balance. Symptoms you describe could possible indicate a fuel problem such as low volume or a weak pump. Since you are diving in, check the fuel filter and the fuel lines which are submerged with the filter/pump. Mine started breaking down when I performed my filter service last and a bunch of crap in the filter. Most of my drivability issues are due to the throttle bodies out of sync (and I reset the fuel trims when I do.....which appears to get done when I disconnect the battery to pull the tank). Rarely do individuals comment on poor injectors or flow out of the injectors.

[tntmo]

My bike has 85,000 miles on it, so a weak pump or bad fuel filter wouldn't surprise me.  I checked all the vacuum lines a few months ago and just checked the ECU one but will check them again when I do the throttle body balance.

I forgot to mention that the bike has a really bad off idle stumble from 2k-3k rpms.  It didn't do that before either, was always fairly smooth.

Is there an aftermarket fuel pump that people are having luck with?  I know for my Husqvarna TE450 some folks are using a pump from a Toyota car, it's way cheaper.

[tntmo]

So I got my fuel hose extension pieces in, also ordered metal quick disconnects for the tank since mine were plastic.  I removed the tank, drained it and removed the fuel pump plate.  Seemed to be a bit of water and debris in the bottom of the tank so I cleaned that up along with a plugged drain hole.  It required a drill to get through the blockage.

I replaced the fuel filter, I used one from a 2002 Chevy Impala.  Close to the same size and it's a metal body filter.  One of the plastic quick disconnects snapped off immediately when I tried to remove it, possibly cracked this whole time?  I'm hoping that's a part of the problem with the poor mileage.

I ran out of time to get the throttle bodies balanced, should get that done tonight.   I removed the baffle from the air box while I had it off.   Will post up when the balance is done and see what the results are.

[tntmo]

Last night I balanced the throttle bodies, they were pretty close anyway but I touched them up a bit.  Replaced all the lines from the IACV with silicone hose, even though I tested them all and they held vacuum just fine. 

I only started it and ran it in the garage, but it doesn't seem to be idling any better and it wouldn't start after it got hot.  So far I have time and money invested and no improvement.  I'll hook up the tune cable today hopefully and reset everything.  This is annoying! 

[tntmo]

Well I ran the Tune ECU program, reinstalled the fuel map and reset the TPS.  I let it run for about 25 minutes or so but never got the TPS  light on the lower part of the screen to light up.      Still does not re-start hot. 

Seems to me that it would be an electrical issue.  When electrical components get hot they build resistance.  Only thing that throws off this idea is the fact that it bump starts easily.   

[Bixxer Bob]

You didn't mention whether it smells of fuel when it's running, or if your friends smell it rich when they are following you but I'm guessing yes.

Lets start with the basics and assume you don't have a blocked breather in the filler cap, the valve clearances are good and the plugs are new (ish). Does the IACV cycle smoothly when tested on TuneECU?

You've done the TB balance and the IACV hoses so there has to be some other reason why it's using so much fuel.  (When it's running does it pull cleanly and strong or is it flat but without a misfire?) 

Can you take a screen shot of your TuneECU data page so we can see the trim settings etc?

In the past, when I had a tickover problem it was down to the TPS setting; if you can get it to the right perameters to light the TPS button you should find that will help, but I don't think it's going to sort your consumption. Either you have a sticky injector (and I've not come across any injector problems up till now) or the ECU is massively mis-reading the air going through the TBs and raising the fuelling to match. 

First steps are to get us a screenshot and to get the TPS reset done.

As an aside, a condition of the crank sensor failing is it cuts out when hot and runs when it cools down.  Not your scenario I know, but one to watch for...

[tntmo]

It does have a rich, fuel smell when it runs.  Another symptom that I don't know if I posted before is that it backfires on decel more than it used to.    It does rev cleanly, even more so now that it's been balanced/air box baffle removed/new map loaded.  In fact, I think it runs better than it has since I've owned it but it's still not idling very good and still won't start when it's hot. 

The valves were checked less than 3000 miles ago and plugs were looked at then but not replaced.  I may just as well replace the plugs and check the valves again just to eliminate that. 

I will get some screen shots from TuneECU and keep fiddling with it. 

[Bixxer Bob]

I went through a period where mine was similar albeit not so much with the hot start.  Couldn't figure it out and spent ages on it.  Part of it proved to be incorrect reset of the TPS meant the ECU didn't know where the f**K it was.  The rest was mainly me messing with the trims trying to fix the former.

Hang on, just remembered,  (I hate this ageing thing  ) another time it had a U/S O2 sensor which  had gone open circuit.  It might be worth checking yours out too.  Thinking about it, if the O2 is sensing incorrectly, ie it's telling the ECU the mix is weak, the ECU will richen up to try to compensate.  Check for Fault Codes and Have a look at the Lambda sensor voltage on TuneECU.  It should be 0.46 volts or thereabouts.   Also check the sensor heater circuit is ok.  Open circuit means it's junk.

In your case, running rich, I'd expect TuneECU to show the sensor voltage to be stuck at zero volts or nearly zero indicating to the ECU the mixture is weak and thus producing a long injector shot giving the richness you have.  It's worth remembering that an old car trick to test the sensor was to take a vacuum line off the inlet manifold to let in extra air and make the exhaust appear weak while monitoring the sensor voltage, so before you decide the sensor is junk, just be absolutely sure you don't have any air leaks.  The manifold gasket is prone to failing for instance; I wrote a sticky about it.

If the sensor is junk you can get a generic one from Ebay a lot less than from Triumph and simply swap the connector over.  Even the wires are the same colours!!

[tntmo]

I've been busy trying to keep my RV running, had to replace three batteries, alternator and a fuel pump (inside a 75 gallon fuel tank that of course was almost full) but finally had a bit of time to mess with the Tiger. 

I checked the valve clearance, all within spec.  I pulled the plugs, they appear to be a nice tan color so I didn't replace them.  I hooked up the tune cable and reinstalled a fuel map, reset the TPS and then started the bike.  I let it run until it was hot and got some screen shots.  Here it is at idle after it had been warmed up for quite a while.

Untitled by tntmo2, on Flickr

This is the tests page of TuneECU.  None of the gage stuff  works on this page, not sure if that's normal? 

Untitled1 by tntmo2, on Flickr

This shot is while I was holding the revs at 4,000 rpm.  As you can see, the TPS is only reading 1.  Normal?  If I slowly rev the bike, the TPS barely moves.  If I blip the throttle, it goes up to maybe 20. 

Untitled2 by tntmo2, on Flickr

With the bike not running, key on/kill switch on and connected to TuneECU, I rotated the throttle all the way from idle to WOT.  The highest TPS reading was 72.  Should it go to 100?  I also never got either light on the bottom of screen to light up. 

After the bike was hot, of course it wouldn't restart.  Since I had it hooked to the charger, I hit it with the boost function.  It cranked over much faster and did start, although even on boost it took a bit longer than it should have.

Ok, lots of information and a few pictures.  If there is anything else I need to get info about that would be helpful, please let me know.  I'm about at my wits end with this bike, I have enough other vehicles that need my time. 

[HockleyBoy]

A long shot but have you checked the charging, my fuel consumption has got progressively worse for a period before each reg rec or stator failure. Tickover has also been affected and after replacing the defective item the bike has always run more smoothly.

[KuzzinKenny]

It might just be a ME thing but if I had me bike plugged into a computer it wouldn't be online or running anything else !!

KK

[tntmo]

A long shot but have you checked the charging, my fuel consumption has got progressively worse for a period before each reg rec or stator failure. Tickover has also been affected and after replacing the defective item the bike has always run more smoothly.

Seems to be charging fine.  It's at about 14 volts at idle. 

[Bixxer Bob]

Ok,  first the TPS reading.  It'll never read 100% but 78% is normal, 72% is a bit low.  Next, as Kenny says, stop all the other computer functions while you're running TuneECU.  I was using a fairly old laptop at Chris Canning's last weekend and it was difficult to see a smooth TPS action because the laptop couldn't process the data and update the screen fast enough.

I can't comment on TPS reading "1" because I can't get to mine at the moment and can't remember.  When it's hot and won't start, is the rev counter responding to the starter motor cranking it over???  I'm thinking maybe the crank sensor is the culprit here, although they don't usually start at all when hot.  Any discrepancy between what you hear the engine doing on the starter and what you see on the rev counter would point this way.  I'd still do a continuity check on the heater element for the O2 sensor too.  Oh, and run the IACV diagnostic while you have the airbox off and watch / listen to it working just to make sure it's not faulty too.