Off to the 'bike show tomorrow....

[Nick Calne]

The bigger question would be DCT or not ?

Honda must understand this question and have a reason for putting the idea into production. I expect it will be a good thing.

[nickjtc]

Honda must understand this question and have a reason for putting the idea into production. I expect it will be a good thing.

But is this Honda doing what they do best?: answering a question that nobody asked.

We cannot deny that many of the technologies or engine configurations that we take for granted came out of their factories. I wonder though if this is just another corporate willie wave.....

To me, using a clutch and shifting gears is a fundamental part of the fun of riding a motorcycle (or driving a car, for that matter), and in mho it makes controlling the vehicle so much easier. It's always good for a laugh when someone shows up to do their Motorcycle Skills Test on their twist-and-go.

[Nick Calne]

There was a time I'd agree Nick, but it is very likely that you are yesterday's news on this one... Drive a modern performance car with an smg and it will all be revealed.

Until recently I had car with semi auto, and it made driving it fast a joy, driving round town a joy, cruising on the motorway a joy. It just was brilliant all round.  All the control of a manual, none of the clutch legwork.  If I was choosing an Africa twin today I would test both set ups to be sure... because I bet this technology is coming to most bikes soon.

Will it be ideal for a bike with such off road capacity?    It might just be more weight.

Would it suit a tiger? 

The cvt on twist and go bikes is a completely different animal btw!

[JayDub]

I read this r/r, and the tester  - once he'd sussed it out - seems happy enough using the DCT off road :

http://lanesplitter.jalopnik.com/ride-review-the-2016-honda-africa-twin-is-exactly-what-1748124826

I know I would find it a difficult transition... I use my clutch lever a lot.
And I have enough frustration with a tw*t-nav, without even more switches and buttons to find and operate
and what about the idea of having to input all the settings you found to be just right, every time you restarted the bike 
I can't help thinking there must have been a signifcant demand for Honda to come up with it, I hope there will always be an option for luddites though.

[nickjtc]

There was a time I'd agree Nick, but it is very likely that you are yesterday's news on this one
The cvt on twist and go bikes is a completely different animal btw!

Guilty, as charged. I know I'm a dinosaur... and proud of it.

My personal feeling (whether cvt or this dual 'clutch' flappy paddle technology) is that if a rider cannot control the flow of power to the rear wheel by controlling both the revs and how the power is modulated through the gearbox there is something lacking in the equation. Hence my comment about cvt/twist-n-go riders trying to do precise slow speed manoeuvres.

But then, I'm not a proponent of ABS or traction control, either....

[Bixxer Bob]

But is this Honda doing what they do best?: answering a question that nobody asked.

We cannot deny that many of the technologies or engine configurations that we take for granted came out of their factories. I wonder though if this is just another corporate willie wave.....

To me, using a clutch and shifting gears is a fundamental part of the fun of riding a motorcycle (or driving a car, for that matter), and in mho it makes controlling the vehicle so much easier. It's always good for a laugh when someone shows up to do their Motorcycle Skills Test on their twist-and-go.

All well and good Nick,  and I agree with you wholehaeartedly, but we are looking at it as seasoned bikers.  Now look at it from the point of view of a seasoned scooter rider who's never had a clutch or gear lever, or a direct entry car driver who's never used a motorcycle clutch and thinks it'll be too much to learn; twist and go tech with the power, comfort and handling of a big bike???

[Nick Calne]

I know exactly what you mean Nick. I use my clutch a lot like you and Jaydub but I'll be surprised if the technology doesn't just cope with it to the point it is a non-issue.

This type of gearbox takes away some control and forces a bit more use of the brakes. I suspect the abs/tc/dct have been tuned in to one another somewhat, especially for slow speed usage.  I'll bet a little bit more back brake is used than otherwise.

Oh and Bob's right.  Young newbies don't like levers, they like buttons and gizmo's....

[Bixxer Bob]

You could look at it in reverse; for instance, we use a 50cc twist and go as a pit bike at race meetings.  It's the most unnatural feeling in the world if you're not used to one so I guess the feeling the other way round is similar.

Also, a year or so back I did a course where they were teaching us old guys that started on 2-strokes to block change instead of blipping down the gears.  A habit of a lifetime is hard to change but I thought I'd give it a go.  Ordinarily, for a roundabout I'd roll off the throttle and blip down the box with maybe a bit of brake if necessary then power on through but with this method I had to pull the clutch, think what gear I needed to be in, stomp down the box while braking then let the clutch out and power on.  I thought I'd run out of time but in fact the opposite was true;  starting from the same point, I was all finished braking a good 70 metres from my aim point.  The theory works so do I do it? Na! I still blip shift like an old fart....

[John Stenhouse]

Like Nick I wouldn't have given you tuppence for ABS/TCS on the Hondas, in fact it was one of the reasons I gave up buying VFRs, then I bought an ex police Pan European to sell on and make a buck.........

Until you use it you'll never understand, like changing the rear shock on the Tiger, slam on the brakes on the Pan and my god it stops quick! I was so impressed I kept one for european long haul where I have to be somewhere tomorrow and its 800 miles and I have no time to take the road more interesting. Stunning tech and I'm sure the DCT on the Africa Twin will be the same.

[threepot]

I'm still trying to think of all the engine configurations that Honda designed,that we take for granted now? ( As Nick mentioned..)  V4,straight 6?

[nickjtc]

I'm still trying to think of all the engine configurations that Honda designed,that we take for granted now? ( As Nick mentioned..)  V4,straight 6?

Flat boxer 4/6 (a la Gold Wing), UJM across-the-frame 4, and as you say V4 and in line 6 (a la BMW). They may not have been the first with any of them, but they sure made an impact when they did introduce their versions of them.

[nickjtc]

All well and good Nick,  and I agree with you wholeheartedly, but we are looking at it as seasoned bikers.

I agree Bob; but how does a person become a seasoned rider (can't call yourself a biker here unless you ride a HD.... long story... ) unless they know how to have full control of their machine at all speeds?

Like I said, I'm a dinosaur.  :icon_wink: :icon_wink:

Having said that I wouldn't mind taking a dct machine for a test ride just for s's and g's.

[Nick Calne]

http://youtu.be/lbeS4uaxzLM (http://youtu.be/lbeS4uaxzLM)

[JayDub]

[nickjtc]

Big cojones on that rider. But fair do's, it has been done on other big adv bikes.

Even if the majority of purchaser would not come even close to riding under conditions as gnarly as that, at least it is good to know the bike could do it.

I wonder when the aftermarket is going to leap in with luggage.....