Unrealistic expectations?

[t4tiger]

Hi.  My 2003 has a 19t front sprocket.  On my honda I can crawl along in traffic in both 1st and 2nd, off the throttle and it's very smooth.  On my tiger I can't do this, it lugs and I need to ride the clutch.  Am I being unrealistic expecting the smoothness of the honda st1300? Would changing the sprocket to 18t make a difference?  I'm not bothered about top end speed, just want the smoothness as I commute alot in slow traffic. Many thanks.

[Timbox2]

Q) Am I being unrealistic expecting the smoothness of the honda st1300?
A) Sorry, yes
Q) Would changing the sprocket to 18t make a difference?
A) Yes, a  bit

Its Triumphs early attempt at FI, and its, well, different.  But you could just try checking that all the IACV hoses are good, particularly if its got a scottoiler, and that valve clearances within spec etc etc.  When were the TB's last balanced?

[SteveFord]

Their race (TOR) tune helps a lot, too. 

[Bixxer Bob]

What Tim said.  I've said it many times before but the single best thing you can do for your Girly is the throttle body balance.  They are very sensitive to it and they go out fairly easily.  For the cost of doing it at a dealer you can buy a good set of gauges and learn to do it yourself.  With practice tank off is 10 minutes and balance is another 5.  I used to do mine every time I had the tank off, and every service, and every time it started doing as you describe.

[t4tiger]

Hi. Thanks for that.  Sync done.  Had it dynoed.  Ran really well for short time and now back to running less well.  Suspecting a mechanical issue now.  I've done all the vacuum tubes, checked that there isn't an air leak by spraying carb cleaner into running engine.  Tuneecu doesn't throw up any faults and test of stepper shows good.  Coils?

[Timbox2]

Hi. Thanks for that.  Sync done.  Had it dynoed.  Ran really well for short time and now back to running less well.  Suspecting a mechanical issue now.  I've done all the vacuum tubes, checked that there isn't an air leak by spraying carb cleaner into running engine.  Tuneecu doesn't throw up any faults and test of stepper shows good.  Coils?

Possible, look at the coil readings in Tune ECU, what you are looking for is a coil thats readings are out compared to the others. If you start from cold you may even see the reading change as the engine gets hot. The other part that is known to fail with heat is the crank pos sensor, though must admit more common on the old steamers than Girlies.

[Chris Canning]

Try an 02 eliminator plug their a tenner off eBay.

And yes your are being unrealistic very!!! As Tim said it was Triumphs second shot at fuel injection if you assume the 885i was the first and the suspension was on the same level!! But hey they had to start somewhere.

[Bixxer Bob]

Hi. Thanks for that.  Sync done.  Had it dynoed.  Ran really well for short time and now back to running less well.  Suspecting a mechanical issue now.  I've done all the vacuum tubes, checked that there isn't an air leak by spraying carb cleaner into running engine.  Tuneecu doesn't throw up any faults and test of stepper shows good.  Coils?

I worked on Chris's once, in TuneECU I noticed that the dwell, ie the number of milliseconds the coil takes to recover was slightly longer than the other two and I'd previously read (while sorting a FI car) that it's an early indication of future failure.  Chris doesn't mess about and replaced it which sorted his problem immediately if I remember correctly.

His suggestion of trying an O2 bypass is a good one, you might even prove my theory if done as I said earlier because I do think you have here a case of "It's ok after a remap but the ECU trims it till it's crap again..." I've thought all along that the target O2 values in the firmware decreed by Triumph and stored as values in trim tables inaccessible to us mortals are simply wrong.  The base map and trim values work but the target values that the ECU trims to using O2 readings don't.  Fitting an O2 bypass disconnects the O2 sensor and at the same time fools the ECU into thinking it's still connected so (I think) locking the ECU at base settings and preventing the ECU trimming to the crap ones.  For a tenner you can prove me right or wrong and maybe open up a solution for many other people.

[t4tiger]

Interesting.  When I had it dynoed the chap removed the O2 eliminator telling me that if the mil light didn't come on, which it didn't, it wasn't needed.  Right or wrong?  With regards to coils, should the milliseconds be exactly the same throughout rev range or is it that they change at a different rate that indicates an issue?  Thanks

[Chris Canning]

Before things get too complicated,are you saying the bike had an 02 eliminator and he took it out or did he disconnect 02/Lamaba sensor.

Oh yea the coil we could see that the middle coil was down compared to the other 2,put a new one in and you could tell straight away by how the motor ran,my only complaint it was 100 quid from Fowler's you can now buy them from World of Triumph for £50!!

[t4tiger]

Hi Chris. It had one on it and he took it off.  I'll hopefully get around to looking at coils this weekend.

[Bixxer Bob]

Like Chris says it's usually the middle one as it runs hot compared with the other two.  The two outside coils gave similar readings at whatever revs we tried.  The centre one lagged behind the other two slightly.

If your man unplugged the O2 sensor BYPASS and DIDN'T re-connect the sensor then you SHOULD have had a mil light warning and fault code.  I do not understand why you would not because that's how it works. 

To save taking the tank off to look, connect TuneECU and start it up.  The O2 voltage should be a nominal 0.46 volts but will swing if the sensor is fitted.  The range is 0.0v - .9v

[Chris Canning]

I'm getting a little lost here 

You took your Tiger to a man with a dyno?

What did he do with the bike on the dyno?

Did he try to remap the ECU  if he didn't what was the idea of the dyno run.

Or if he did how did he do it?

How is the bike running now compared to how it was before your dyno run and can you tell the difference since the 02 spoofer was taken off.

[t4tiger]

When I got bike, it was running well except for at tick over and at small throttle openings.  Did all the vacuum tube stuff and confirmed no air leak.  Still issues.  Dyno man put correct map in earlier tor rather than later, and adjusted the mapping.  Ran brilliantly on throttle, super smooth.  But still not brill off throttle although a lot better.  Plan was to ride for a while and then return for final adjust.  After riding for a while it has deteriorated across the rev range, this this thread.  At that first session we found 02 eliminator attached and he said all it did was stop mil light from coming on.  He took it off and left lead tucked under tank.  Mil light did not come on.  All adjustments done then.  I spoke with triumph mech at local garage and he confirmed about O2 eliminator so it's still off. That's why I'm going down mechanical route.  The improvement over what I thought was a well running bike was amazing so I am inclined to trust the Dyno man.  Hope that helps.

[Chris Canning]

I'm intrigued it's the first time i've Ever read of a Tiger being put on a dyno and had a factory map adjusted,its always been done with piggyback fuelling and even that is a rarity,most posts are about different maps with a very small amount of tinkering.

As to the 02 eliminator using your Dyno  mans logic if it doesn't do any more than stop the Mil light coming on why take it off  ,i've tried an 02 eliminator many a time over the years maybe it does just stop the mil light coming on and nothing else apart from stopping the Kamba working i've Never been a fan it kills the motor higher up the Rev range,but yours is an interesting story that certainly hasn't turned up before i'd Imagined plenty more will want to see how it goes.