Difficulty Downshifting

[bunzelburner]

I'm currently on a cross-country trip from Wisconsin to Las Vegas with my 1996 Tiger 885 (T400) and all of sudden today have started noticing difficulty downshifting and then getting into neutral.

Everything ran completely fine up until today. Last night was probably the coldest night I've had (been camping the whole way). The bike started fine but seemed to need the choke on longer than usual. With the cold, the engine seemed to have trouble getting warm even after driving 40 miles. All this time I noticed difficulty shifting down gears like the shifter was stuck. Zero issues shifting up. At a stop, it was nearly impossible to get it up into neutral from the 1st. After I turn the bike off, I can flip it back up into neutral. After the bike sits for a bit and I run it again, no issues. I've noticed that it mostly starts happening after long periods of running. Although, not always as I just did an hour at high speeds and had no issues going down gears.

The first thing that came to mind was a clutch adjustment (although I feel like if that were the issue, up-shifting would be affected too). However, from inspection and reading the service manual, there appears to be no clutch adjustment on this bike. The second thing was oil. The oil was slightly low (not ever 0.25 liters, it's a 4-liter bike). I should point out that the oil has been slightly low before and I never had any issues shifting. I did an oil change about 3800 miles ago and have another ~800 miles to las vegas where I'm planning to do an oil change.

Curious about what other things could be causing this. Yes, I did top the oil off. The fluid level for the clutch is full (hydraulic actuated clutch). Maybe I should bleed and refill when I get to Vegas?

Also, bike has new clutch plates since right before I left.

[Sin_Tiger]

The first thing that came to mind was a clutch adjustment (although I feel like if that were the issue, up-shifting would be affected too). However, from inspection and reading the service manual, there appears to be no clutch adjustment on this bike. The second thing was oil. The oil was slightly low (not ever 0.25 liters, it's a 4-liter bike). I should point out that the oil has been slightly low before and I never had any issues shifting. I did an oil change about 3800 miles ago and have another ~800 miles to las vegas where I'm planning to do an oil change.

Yes, I did top the oil off. The fluid level for the clutch is full (hydraulic actuated clutch). Maybe I should bleed and refill when I get to Vegas?

Also, bike has new clutch plates since right before I left.

Hi, 

Upshifts are always easier (even clutchless) as you naturally roll off the throttle. To get you by downshifting until you get it fixed, try giving the throttle a tiny blip as you put pressure on the lever, that will take pressure off the gear faces for a split second and make it easier, takes practice to get it smooth. Older neutral switch cams often won't activate the idiot light / stop circuit when they get hot but will still select neutral (let the clutch out slowly) but the engine will stop when you put the side stand down because the ECM thinks it's still in gear.

Oil consumption / loss, do you mean you never have to add more than 0.25 litres? Difficult to say without knowing the riding conditions and a lot of other factors. Check the primary sprocket area for leakage from the seal, it's a favourite as lazy mechanics don't often bother when they change the sprocket and chain, oily back end is the clue.

Hydraulic Clutch
Don't waste your time topping off and bleeding the clutch slave. Take it right off (it's only 3 screws), pop the piston out into a bucket, clean everything out, flush through with fresh fluid, reassemble and then bleed the system. Not many bikes have hydraulic clutch operation, so changing the fluid often gets forgotten. I would place a bet on it (you are going to Vegas after all  ) that you will find black gunky fluid in the slave cylinder, possibly vintage Hinckley fluid  It's not as scary as you might think, the slave is a simple piston with one lip seal and a spring behind it, see below.

Engine Temperature
It's possible (not guaranteed) that the engine is low on coolant, if there is air in the system the gauge will not register until the coolant heats enough to open the thermostat, expel the air through the overflow, then the gauge will suddenly shoot up. A common fault is the rubber overflow pipe from the top of the radiator is perished and does not draw coolant back from the expension tank (it's a long hose and follows a convoluted path) as the engine cools, it just draws air from wherever it's leaking. Check the radiator level by removing the cap after it has cooled.
Another possibility is a thermostat that has failed, it's hidden in the top hose, it may have stuck open. That type are not so easy to find but don't worry, I have ridden many miles with a thermostat that I had to take the guts out of when it jammed shut.

Test for thermostat
Start the engine cold, feel the temperature of the top hose going into the radiator and then the bypass hose that is T'd into the top hose before the thermostat. The bypass hose will heat up within a few minutes but the radiator will stay cold until the stat opens. If both hoses feel as if they are warming at the same rate, the thermostat is suspect.

[Madruss]

Well this is certainly easier than trying to work out a diagnosis on your own 
Always glean good information here 

[Nick Calne]

I would be looking at how much hydraulic fluid you have and whether the mechanism was activating the clutch.  It might need bleeding, or topping up.

[Lee337]

I remember having to bleed the clutch on my Trophy, that was a real PITA. I'd stripped the whole clutch system down, cleaned it & replaced all the seals. But when it came to bleeding, I couldn't get it to work
 no matter what I did. Tried forcing fluid through from the bottom with a syringe, think I used a 500ml one with some old fuel hose I had lying around, tried it the usual way, by filling up the reservoir & pumping fluid through but still couldn't get it right.

In the end, it turned out to be really simple - I had the clutch lever set at angle for riding, which was creating an air lock between the piston and the banjo bolt. From memory, I angled the master cylinder/reservoir so that the banjo bolt was as far below the piston as it would go without spilling any fluid. then bled it. Took about 10 minutes once I'd figured out what the issue was & it's been near perfect since.

[Sin_Tiger]

I wonder if he got to Vegas yet 

[Nick Calne]

Last active on the 28th so he probably read your advice Sin.    Then took it to the garage.

[Sin_Tiger]

"Take it to a garage" would have been too short a response for me 

[bunzelburner]

Sorry for the delayed reply. Ran into a few other issues that I was addressing. But wow thank you for the detailed reply. One of the great things about these older bikes is the passionate community behind them.

The problem completely went away after that day. But I decided to flush the fluid and clean the cylinder as suggested. It wasn't low, or bad looking so idk. I haven't encountered a day as cold as that one again (probably won't with things warming up). We'll see if the issue comes back ever.

Thanks everyone!

[Sin_Tiger]

Glad you got it reliable and presumably made it to Vegas. Enjoy    while you can