Talyn's Diary

[Lee337]

Well, the kit arrived earlier this week but as I was working I put off doing anything until the weekend.

Alright, I didn't have the patience to wait until the weekend, so finished early Thursday & headed out to the garage. Would have been sooner but I was away at a meeting until Wednesday evening.

I must admit that the instructions that was emailed to me were very clear but I ended up having to also remove the side cover, which the instructions said was possible. Because of this it took a little longer than expected. To give you an idea, it took Queens of the Stoneage - Songs for the deaf plus Puddle of Mud - Come Clean to complete the task.

I'm pleased with the result 

She's pretty much how I want her now & ready to ride in to the sunset, which I'll be doing in June when I head off to the ABR festival. The ticket has been bought along with a tent, and a few other bits & pieces of camping kit I didn't already have.

I suppose at some point, I'll have to load Talyn J up, just to see how she handles. It's been almost a year since I've loaded up a bike & that was Tallullah, which is a different riding experience to Talyn J even if they are both Tigers. 

[Sin_Tiger]

I think that looks better too.

[Lee337]

A little more fettling in the garage, this time with TuneECU. I noticed a while back that Talyn J was still running the standard map. According to the previous owner, MuddySump did the last service (borne out by the paperwork which shows the 12,000 mile service was done in March 2022 @ 15,600 miles) and also updated the map to the latest available. Well, he may have done, I don't know as the paperwork only shows an Autoscan was carried out.

Anyway, the map was showing as 21067 (replaces 20769), the one for the standard exhaust. So, I replaced it with 21065 (replaces 20767) which is the one for the Arrow silencer. A fairly easy job once I got TuneEcu working. I have this piece of software on an Android tablet as well as the original Windows version on a laptop, but decided to use the Android one as this is kept updated.

So, move Talyn J out of the garage and park her under the kitchen window where the tablet can pick up a WiFi signal and after a short while Talyn J was registered. Only, I noticed the battery on the tablet was down to 55%. Odd as it was fully charged when I started. Well, I had Talyn J on the battery charger and had removed the headlight fuse, so first up, copy the original map. By the time this was done, the tablet was down to 18%. Well, I wasn't going to risk it, so I discuonnected everything and put the tablet on charge, while pushing Talyn J back in to the garage. Maybe I'll tackle it the next day.

3 hours later, the tablet was fully charged.

It was a cool but dry day as I lifted the garage door to see Talyn patiently waiting for her new map. I decided to use the laptop rather than risk the tablet running out of charge half way through Talyn J's procedure, which meant running an extension cable from the house to the garage (No, I still haven't sorted out the electrics).

Laptop plugged in and ECU connected, I checked everything was working, including the DAB radio with Planet Rock playing in the background. and just in case, backed up map 21067 again. 15 minutes later and all was ready. Another 15 minutes and Talyn J was sporting map 21065. Before disconnecting everything, I thumbed the starter and...

NOTHING! Not as click - it was as if I'd forgotten to pull in the clutch, or hit the kill switch.

Switched the ignition off,  heard the stepper motor do it's best impression of an old internet modem, disconnected the laptop, switched the ignition back on and tried again. This time she burst into life.

A quick check with the Android version of TuneEcu and everything seemed to be as it should. It was time to take her out.

First thing I noticed is how much smoother she seemed to be. I'm not certain if I imagined it, but she seemed to pull better as well. While I was out, it was enivitable I'd take her for a thrash around some of the more twisty roads the local Institute of Advanced Motorists use for training their riders, including town, short, sharp twisties, a short stretch of dual carriageway and finishing up with some really nice long, curvy roads. A thoroughly enjoyable ride.

A great ride marred by only one small thing, as I slowed down at some traffic lights, the engine died. She started up again immediately but I did notice the idle was a bit low.

Got back to the house and again, the idle dropped & engine stalled. She started up again and the same thing happened, after a couple of seconds, idle speed dropped & engine stalled. This needs investigating. A search on T'internet suggested everythign from high Reg/Rec voltage putting the ECU into limp mode, stepper motor seized, throttle bodies out of adjustment, old map (triumph apparently issued a new map to cure idle speed issues) valve clearances out and the usual 'it's the starter motor failing'.

So not much help there then. But I did come across an article which suggested the rod connecting the stepper motor to the throttle bodies can sometimes get a bit mucky & jam up. The suggestion was spraying brake cleaner around the linkage, followed by a lubricant (not WD40, whioch I don't use anyway). It was also suggessted you switcxh the engine off, await the stepper motor to do its modem trick, then open & quickly release the throttle a few times. So I did both.

All this before the engine was cool. Switched the ignition on again & she fired up and idled at a steady 1000 rpm. switched off, started her up again and she idled perfectly. Left her running until the fan came on, to get her noce & hot just to see if the idle would drop but she behaved herself. Switched off, then restarted with the same result, a near perfect idle.

To be honest, I'm not sure if what I did has cured the issue, so I don't know if the problem will return, but if it does, then it's looking like a tank off job, something I'm keen to avoid for the moment, but I need t have the conficence in her to take her away in June, first to the ABR festival, then off down to Devon for a few days. I really don't want to have to use Tallulah - yes, I still have her 

[London_Phil]

I have the same map, and it doesn't give any issue.
Bad connection/corrosion of the main 30A fuse under the battery can cause this, not sure the rec/reg would.
Stepper motor only really in use when bike is cold, to keep the revs up.
Normally it gives problems on a cold start, and is OK once warmed up.
Manual replacement is an option.
The thing can seize, and the plastic cam part can break.
Relearn of idle can be achieved using Tigertool (not tune ecu), or by starting from cold, not touching the throttle, and leaving the bike to warm up, the fan to cut in, and another 12 minutes of idling.
I do stall mine a lot, as I'm used to low revving bikes.
You can see most of the stepper mech from outside with a bit of careful torchwork.

I'd start with the main fuse.

I do have a spare set of throttle bodies which includes a stepper motor, from a bike that was written off when it was in a dealers that got flooded.
Available for test if required.

[London_Phil]

Could you have kill switch or related components issue?

[Lee337]

Thanks for the info. Didn't think it could be the stepper motor as never a problem from cold, but felt I needed to try something.

 I'll check out the fuse when I have a little time

[London_Phil]

Its not so easy to see, but the stepper only adjusts the stop position a small amount for cold tickover adjustment.
The nut with yellow in the pic is the top of the stepper mech, and it operates a lever that adjusts the roller in the middle up or down acting as an electronic stop. it is only interacting at that point, and is not directly connected to throttle, only the stop.
The second image is looking up from underneath the stepper, and shows (badly, I'm afraid) the motor shaft and sprung loaded plastic cam that moves up and down as the motor rotates. The motor can seize, or more likeley, this area can become dry and seize/overload the stepper.
Finally the plastic cam can brake, causing issues.
A good squirt with GT85 or  something from outside can help.

[Lee337]

Gave it a good spray of ACF50, but from what you've said, it doesn't look likely it's to do with the stepper motor, there's no issue with it cold starting.

I'll check the 30A fuse next time I have time & see if the same thing happens.

[London_Phil]

I also have a spare main fuse/relay if needed...

[Lee337]

Appreciate it and the suggestions, thanks. 

[Lee337]

Had a bit of time this morning, so off came the seat, battery out & had a quick look. There's something in the bottom of the tray, looks like wood chips?

OK, dusconnect the ecu & remove.

No, not Woodchester, looks more like peppercorns, or some kind of seed - that looks like they've been nibbled by something.

Now the last time I had this problem, it was my Mercedes SLK & it was full of peanuts from the bird seed Mrs L keeps in the garage, but these were old and nothing like anything stored in the bird tubs so they've been there since before I bought Talyn J.

Out comes the hoover & all cleaned up. Next, check all the wiring. No teeth marks, no fraying wires and no corrosion. So a Liberal application of electrical grease to all connectors, a cable tie in the now cleared drain hole and all back together again. Another 10 minutes and clock reset and set to show UK mpg rather than the other foreign stuff involving litres & kilometers. Oh, I also put the sheepskin seat cover on her too.

Off for a ride in the morning 

[ghulst]

Looking forward to a report on how you enjoyed many kilometers of great riding on Talyn.

[Lee337]

A nice 100 mile run today (160km) with absolutely no problems. was out with the local Advanced Motorcyclists group so wasn't hanging aaround too much, mostly pushing Talyn J on 3/4th up to legal ( ) speeds. Didn't miss a beat.

Once the engine was up to temp, she ticked over nicely at around 1100rpm although she did drop lower a couple of times, she didn't cut out.

Aside from cleaning up all the electrical connectors in the battery area, the only thing different was filling her up with E5 super unleadded, which may have made a difference.

I've ridden her just over 500 miles since buying her which I know isn't a huge distance but I feel I'm beginning to gell with her now. I feel more comfortable, able to push her a little harder, accellerate a little quicker & stop a little later (obviously not too late, not had the ABS kick in yet and to be fair I'd rather it didn't).

A little disappoinyted at the mpg though, it's hovering around 46mpg, uk (just over 5.1l/100km) whereas Tallulah, you remember her - yes she's still sitting in my garage, averaged 50mpg. Maybe I'm riding a little differently although I don't think so.

A nice long trip to the ABR festival followd by a run down to Devon may show up a different figure, I'll let you know.

[ghulst]

Honestly, I doubt I ever got my Tiger 800 more economical than 5.1. Might have been how I rode it, but even on longer trips that was about the number. For me anyway.

Still, good to see you counted our foreign kilometers. :D

[Lee337]

Didn't want to exclude any of our European cousins