Steamer not running good

[cascadetiger]

I need some help.  My 98 Tiger with 20,000 miles ran perfect when I put it away.  I was gone on a business trip for a few weeks.  I came back and it now runs very lean.  It sounds like it only runs on 2 cylinders or so at light throttle, low rpm.  If I add a little choke it runs fine.  It still goes down the highway ok, but something is not right.  The bike is 100% stock.

Is there a fuel filter on these bikes?  Could be its not getting all the fuel it needs?  Anyone have any thoughts?

[nightrunner]

Sounds exactly like what my 98 did a few years ago after a winter hibernation.  Yes there is a fuel filter and you'll be astonished how small it is and how hard to get to.  Follow the fuel line to a tee fitting where it enters a tube manifold and feeds the three carbs.  The fuel filter is a tiny plastic screen cone located inside the metal tube where the rubber fuel hose connects.  This is between the carbs and the air box and is a tight squeeze.  You may be able to get to it by sliding the airbox back.  Pull the side intakes and boot clamps and the airbox has room to move back a couple inches.  A lot of folks add an in-line filter just below the petcock because the stocker is so small.

So if you've done the above then you're half way to having hte carbs off so you might as well pull them and clean them.  If we're still in your comfort zone, then pull the carbs, remove the float bowls, and give everything a good cleaning with carb cleaner.  Spray it through the pilot and main jets.   Put some grease or vaseline inside the carbs boots and it will be much easier to reassemble (and to remove them next time).  You can also rejet the lean cold-blooded cat while you have the carbs off, but that is another thread....in progress.

And since you've pulled the carbs, its easy to pull the airbox.  Despite what the manual says, you can take it apart and clean the foam element.

If this does not do the trick, it may also be an ignition coil failing intermittantly.  I had a coil failing during the same time I was fighting with rejetting the carbs.  It would run OK, then sputter.  It would frequently stall as I slowed down to stop.  It drove me nuts until I figured out there were two problems in parallel.   Anyway the Tiger coils are not the best and others have posted about them failing every 20-25K or so.  You could have a shop do the diagnosis.  You could buy one coil and use trial and error to determine which one is bad.  Note that it could be a bad plug wire too.  What I did was pick up a set of TT600 coils on ebay.  The Tiger uses a conventional remote coil with high voltage plug wires.  Several other Triumph models use on-the-plug coils and these seem to have longer life.   If you go this route, post it here so I can tell you more.  There are two types and one of them is too big to fit the Tiger valve covers.  Anyway I'm quite happy with the coil conversion and would recommend it over a new stock coil.

Let us know what you find.

[cascadetiger]

Thanks for the help here.  I will dive into it tonight.  Sounds like a lot of fun!

[tigerrider]

It may take some time to pull and replace the carbs first time around..but the second time will cut that time in half. (Did for me at least)


/Always looks forward to reading any Nightrunner post
//Steamer powah!

[cascadetiger]

When I went to remove the allen head screws that attach the fairing to the gas tank, 2 were stripped by the previous owner and will not back out.  They just spin.  Any ideas on how to get them out short of drilling them?

[tigerrider]

When I went to remove the allen head screws that attach the fairing to the gas tank, 2 were stripped by the previous owner and will not back out.  They just spin.  Any ideas on how to get them out short of drilling them?

They are not stripped but instead the metal insert the bolt screws into has come loose from the tank.

I have had a dealership create this very problem for me. It can be a disaster also...as depending on how the inserts (the thing spinning around) were done, fuel could seep out. This would likely happen once the inserts were loose though.

The only option I know is to drill off the head of the bolt....replace tank. Since yours is not causing a fuel leak there may be a way to hold the insert down into it's hole via an epoxy or something. The trick is...after drilling the head off...how would you remove the body of the bolt from an insert you can't hold down?

I went after the dealer but eventually Triumph themselves supplied me with a new tank. (Of course I dropped the bike in the driveway about 2 months later)

Those bolts are to be BARELY finger tightened. Whenever she goes to the shop, I put masking tap all over the tank screaming "FINGER TIGHTEN ONLY".

[cascadetiger]

Uggg!  This is not good news.  My Tiger is in mint condition and I am trying hard to keep it that way. No scratches whatsoever on the tank.

I may try to remove more screws on the rest of the fairing by the head lights to see if the whole thing can come off the bike, tank and fairing together.  Or, if I can just get the tank high enough to get my fingers around the filter.  This could be wishful thinking.

[tigerrider]

I am trying to think without seeing my bike...but only two bolts keep the tank on, right?

Is any of the body work able to come off? I would think the front maybe? I don't think any bolts that attach the bodywork to the tank and the framwork at the same time.

If it does work, don't forget to pull the fuel gauge wires off before walking away with the tank! I'll check out mine when I get home...but I tihnk if you remove the front panel (the part with the windshield) it may come off.

[nightrunner]

I guess I was lucky in that I don't think the two PO's ever took mine to a shop.  2900 miles when I bought it.  But I have read several reports about these thread bosses being torn loose as you describe.  I hate to send you to another list but the Tiger group on Yahoo has been around a long time and I recall many old posts covering this problem over there.  But set aside some time for the search; it will take a while (long list of archives).  The shops like to use air ratchets and that's way too much torque for the those tank bolts as Tigerrider said.

By the way this is only true for the tank.  The cowl nuts are set in little rubber grommets easily replaced.

Yeah the trick is to anchor the female thread insert so you can turn the allen bolt.  I would hesitate to use oil or any rust penetrant stuff because it will get behind the thread insert and hamper any future attempt to epoxy them back into place.  As I said I have not encountered this myself so will default to advice of those who have.  But I would take a good look at grinding the heads off with Dremmel abrasive wheel.  This should leave a portion of the shank to grab onto with vise grips once the side covers are off.  First try pushing in or pulling out with the vise grips while backing the screw out.  If this fails, I would then look into whether I could drill a hole perpedicular from the bottom rim of the tank to contact the outside of that thread insert.  The idea being to inject a [gas-tolerant] epoxy or polyurethane (or fiberglass?) cement into the hole and pot the thread insert as much as possible.  I don't know if gas gets down into that lower rim.  Anyone?  If so, then I would drain the tank and rinse it out with soapy water.  If you do glue the thread bosses, you'll need a clean gas-free surface anyway.  The tank can always be dried later.

If that did not work (i.e. gas leaking, or the insert got butchered, or??) I would consider trying to embed (again with suitable epoxy or ?) either a T-nut or a stand-off.  A T-nut is a thread boss with a flange on one end.  A stand-off is a really long nut, either threaded all the way through or threaded at each end.  You want the former.  This route will take some work but new tanks have got to cost a mint if they are even available still (?).  An industrial supply company called McMaster Carr has the parts described.  Metric threads are a maybe.   They also have rubber washers very close the size of the ones used on the side cover screws.  Mine were all dried and cracked (on a 4 year old bike!) and the TR shop wanted like $1-2 each for them.   McMaster sold me a bag of 50 for like $8.

Lastly it occurs to me that if its only two of the bolts, and the tank is not leaking, can you just live without them after you cut the heads off?

OK, now lastly for real, I'm thinking one could install studs in place of the thread inserts.  But that's also an involved project; just wanted to float the idea.

So now I'm wondering if there are any otherwise good Tiger tanks out there with busted thread anchors.  I wouldn't mind trying to repair one.  Hmmmm....

Hang in there.  You'll get this sorted and love the bike again.

[cascadetiger]

I loosened the fasteners on the front of the fairing.  The tank would not come off.  Too much stuff to clear the bars.

I ccould raise the tank up enough to get my fingers on the fuel line going down into the carbs, but there's no way I could get the filter out.

I did find a vacuum hose not connected to anything near the steering head.  I looked all over and can't see where it could have been plugged into.  The other end of the hose goes down into the carb area, I could see where it plugged in.  Anyone know what that hose does?

I put it all back toether and it runs like it did before.  I have a big ride planned to Mt Ranier this weekend.  If I keep the revs above 4,000 it runs good.  Hopefully she'll hang in there and not strand me.

[tigerrider]

I loosened the fasteners on the front of the fairing.  The tank would not come off.  Too much stuff to clear the bars.

I ccould raise the tank up enough to get my fingers on the fuel line going down into the carbs, but there's no way I could get the filter out.

I did find a vacuum hose not connected to anything near the steering head.  I looked all over and can't see where it could have been plugged into.  The other end of the hose goes down into the carb area, I could see where it plugged in.  Anyone know what that hose does?

I put it all back toether and it runs like it did before.  I have a big ride planned to Mt Ranier this weekend.  If I keep the revs above 4,000 it runs good.  Hopefully she'll hang in there and not strand me.

No body work can come off the tank? damn, both sides have a spinning allen head? crap. :(

[cascadetiger]

Having slept on this, I think there is a way to get the tank off wtih some of the body work still attached.  I am in an apartment parking lot and I run out of daylight.  I will try again this weekend.

Thanks to every one for your help and ideas here.

[Mudhen]

Yes there is a fuel filter and you'll be astonished how small it is and how hard to get to.

Don't forget the filters on the ends of the tubes that go up into the tank on the petcock.

I'm in the same boat as you are with the spinning inserts.  Tigertrax is the man with the plan on those, but it sounds like Nightrunner has been through it before.  I haven't tried it yet...I got out the old drill and lopped off the top.  Now I have some handy studs sticking out that hold the panel on for me while I'm getting the other bolts in!

The carb issue sounds like junk to me.  Sometimes just draining the fuel out of the carbs with the drain screws will cure it.  You may want to try that a few times before you jump into the carb removal.

Good luck!

Pat

[aeronca]

cascadetiger, my '95 is doing the exact same thing with the fuel issues. i bought it a few months ago off craigslist, and am not sure how much the guy rode it. any who, i, ran it out of gas to see how far it would go and in doing so it sucked alot crap through the carbs. i took them off and thought i cleaned them(so i thought) good enough, but at low idle it miss's and feels like its on two cylinders. so off they come again. so make sure when you get them off you take your time and clean them well. maybe i'll see you some time at the krispy kream, i'm up in monroe.    good luck.

[cascadetiger]

I took the tank off finally and got down thru the layers to the fuel filter.  It had some junk in it but didnt look too bad.  Getting the fuel line back on that plastic tee is close to impossible.   You cant see anything and you cant get your fingers in there either.

I put it all back together and took it out for a ride.  After it was all warmed up, it ran perfect again.  I put 120 miles on it today and it still is running great.  I think its fixed (knock on wood).