Bad Head Gasket, 05 Tiger

[eldiii]

@ 40,000 miles I seem to have oil (lots of) mixing with my coolant; seems like a bad head gasket.  Anyone ever have this problem?  

Ed

eldiii

[TigerTrax]

Ed..
There have been a few reports of this same problem.

I do not know the cause.

Tell 'becca I said Hi!

[Yukon]

Ed,
What did the guys in Windber have to say?

Jack

[eldiii]

It's been in the shop since the 3rd (July).  The shop did a compression test and points to a head gasket leak.  For good reason they won't tear it down until they have parts on hand to put it back together.  The trouble is that head gaskets are on back order..........there is another Tiger in the shop waiting (since before the Ride-In) for a head gasket too.  You would think that Triumph would keep gaskets in stock???  

Ed

[Bruincounselor]

Ed..
There have been a few reports of this same problem.

I do not know the cause.

I have not seen this in a 955. My 885i has had 2 done (Under warranty). Coolant leaking out of head in the area of the alternator over the winter. The second time seemed to be the fix.

Thank you Ma's  

[The Kurgan]

I noticed a bit of oily film on the right side of the engine, just along the head gasket. It is very minor, but I wonder if this is going to become a problem.

Mine is an '05 with only 2000 kilometres on the odometer. It is JUST out of factory warranty. However, I purchased it "used" from a triumph dealer who gave me an additional 2 month "mechanical" warranty which expires very soon. Should I bother sending it in?

Anybody else with a similar issue?







I snugged down the two hex screws on the right side of the engine, as they were a bit loose, but this doesn't seem to help. It is certainly not dripping any fluids, but I worry about this becoming a larger problem down the road.

After doing a bit of research, it would appear weeping or even leaking gaskets are not too uncommon on 955 Triumphs.

[Lordy]

Hi guys,

I have a Dec '03 build Tiger. My head gasket was weeping very minor amounts of coolant from exact area as shown in The Kurgan's photo`s.  After much research and talking to my local dealer I managed to locate the Resident Guru of Triumph Australia who told me to do the following.

Loosen all headstuds and re-tension to following specs;
Stage1: 25ft lbs
Stage2: 30ft lbs
Stage3: Angle tighten 90deg.

I did the above and have had no more coolant, or anything else, loss since. Note: I didn't drain the coolant, nor did I loosen the head studs completely. I was VERY careful not to disturb the head in situ or "break" the seal of the gasket so there was no coolant loss anywhere.  If you are in the least unsure, I would drain the coolant before doing the job to prevent oil contamination by coolant.

I hope this helps you guys, it certainly worked for me

See above for a new post I have a problem with, maybe someone out there has heard of this?

Thanks

Peter

[The Kurgan]

Hi guys,

I have a Dec '03 build Tiger. My head gasket was weeping very minor amounts of coolant from exact area as shown in The Kurgan's photo`s.  After much research and talking to my local dealer I managed to locate the Resident Guru of Triumph Australia who told me to do the following.

Loosen all headstuds and re-tension to following specs;
Stage1: 25ft lbs
Stage2: 30ft lbs
Stage3: Angle tighten 90deg.

I did the above and have had no more coolant, or anything else, loss since. Note: I didn't drain the coolant, nor did I loosen the head studs completely. I was VERY careful not to disturb the head in situ or "break" the seal of the gasket so there was no coolant loss anywhere.  If you are in the least unsure, I would drain the coolant before doing the job to prevent oil contamination by coolant.

How many bolts are we talking about here?

When you refer to Stage 1, 2, 3, are you referring to a progressive tightening sequence, or, are you referring to different types of heads?

What do you mean by "angle tighten"?

I'm pretty mechanically inclined, and normally do all my own motorcycle maintenance. However, I have never ventured inside a motorcycle engine before, and therefore, I'm not overly informed with certain terminology.

BTW, I'm going to first start by simply loosening the two accessible hex bolts located on the right side cylinder block (in my third photo above), and re-torquing them down. What is the torque on these bolts? 25 ft/lbs?

Thanks in advance.

[Lordy]

Hi,
Firstly, all I did was "nip up" the 2 outer bolts you are talking about. (My workshop manual shows them to be to 12nm, I don't have the conversion here for that)

Head Bolts are located inside the rocker box, this means fuel tank, air box, ig coils and sundry items need to be removed.  You will need to set the timing marks, remove the cam chain tensioner,  identify/mark cam shaft caps before removing them to allow cams to be moved aside to access head bolts. (Tension for cam bearing caps is 10nm)

Stage tensioning: first stage; all bolts, in correct sequence, are torqued to 25ft lbs, then 2nd stage, in sequence again, to 30ft lbs.  Then they are angle tightened, in sequence, 90 deg. (Angle tighten is turning the head of the bolt a further 90deg (1/4 turn) past the last tension of 30ft lbs.  Head bolt tensioning sequence is shown in the workshop manual starting in the middle and working out,  see below for sequence

exhaust side
5   3   1    8
7   2   4    6
inlet side

If you don't have a manual it may be worth your while to get one before attempting a job like this one, is a bit involved... There are certain procedures to re installing the cam chain tensioner and ensuring valve timing stays set correctly too.  

Hope this helps

Peter

[The Kurgan]

Hi,
Firstly, all I did was "nip up" the 2 outer bolts you are talking about. (My workshop manual shows them to be to 12nm, I don't have the conversion here for that)

Head Bolts are located inside the rocker box, this means fuel tank, air box, ig coils and sundry items need to be removed.  You will need to set the timing marks, remove the cam chain tensioner,  identify/mark cam shaft caps before removing them to allow cams to be moved aside to access head bolts. (Tension for cam bearing caps is 10nm)

Stage tensioning: first stage; all bolts, in correct sequence, are torqued to 25ft lbs, then 2nd stage, in sequence again, to 30ft lbs.  Then they are angle tightened, in sequence, 90 deg. (Angle tighten is turning the head of the bolt a further 90deg (1/4 turn) past the last tension of 30ft lbs.  Head bolt tensioning sequence is shown in the workshop manual starting in the middle and working out,  see below for sequence

exhaust side
5   3   1    8
7   2   4    6
inlet side

If you don't have a manual it may be worth your while to get one before attempting a job like this one, is a bit involved... There are certain procedures to re installing the cam chain tensioner and ensuring valve timing stays set correctly too.  

Hope this helps

Peter

Thank you Peter. This might be the solution for most 955i minor coolant weep issues from the head gasket area.

Sounds like an involved, but do-able job. I think I'll wait until I need my valves checked at 12K and then get the head bolts re-torqued. So far, not enough coolant residue to justify popping the head. I wash my bike so often, nothing really builds-up anyway.

[Stretch]

Sounds like a good idea to include re-torquing the head as part of the regularly-scheduled 12k service intervals, while everything's already apart for valve check / adjustments.

Mine's coming up in just over a thousand miles.  Thanks for the tip.

[The Kurgan]

An update to my head gasket weep...

I reported the issue to my dealer and sent digital photos, who in turn contacted Triumph Canada. Warranty work was immediately approved. My dealer was told that about 30 2005 model Tiger units worldwide were reported to have head gasket "weep" issues. Even though my Tiger is just out of warranty, this problem is considered "unacceptable" and thus is covered, in full, by Triumph. According to Triumph Canada, this problem is only cosmetic and does not affect the oil or the coolant. I checked both my oil and coolant, and indeed, NO sign of a blown gasket. There's simply a tendancy for the defective gaskets to wick coolant from the waterjacket to the outside of the engine. In all cases, the affected area is on the right side of the engine and in all cases this does not cause more than a slight film on the engine case. My dealer already has the new, updated gasket on order. It was decided to bring my Tiger in towards the end of the riding season, since the job will require the removal the engine  :shock: and will take about 2 days to complete. The good news is that I'm covered, there's no rush, and I get my valves checked for free (and adjusted to the loose end of the range), new coolant change, new oil change and a complete inspection of my pistons, cylinders, top end, etc. When I finally get around to bringing my Tiger in for the warranty work, I will take detailed photos of the various stages for those who are interested.

While they are doing the gasket change, is there anything I can do to improve the engine? Daytona 955i cams? Higher compression, lighter weight forged pistons? I really don't need more power, but they'll have the top end disassembled anyway. Just a thought.  :twisted:

[Stretch]

Great news!

The only improvements I would make to the 955i Tiger engine would be to install entirely new gear ratios, with a lower 1st and higher 6th, with the rest properly spread out between.

Hey, I can dream.  

[Lordy]

Great news Kurgan, you have done well.  

As for your mods.... I couldnt agree more with Stretch, gear ratios are all I feel need playing with. If 1st was lower (a fair bit) and 6th were higher (say lose 1,000rpm @ 120pkh) it would be an ideal match for torque/power curves.  Still have great fuel econony with a $hite load of grunt at highway cruising speeds.

Happy motoring lads

PS, What is "riding season"?  What is cold?   :lol:

[The Kurgan]

Great news Kurgan, you have done well.

PS, What is "riding season"?  What is cold?   :lol:

Ah, shut up.  :lol: We get, maybe, 5 to 6 months of riding time, and even then, only 3 of those are "prime".

For some reason, I'm really looking forward to getting my engine pulled. I am very curious to see the state of my top end as well as ensuring that everything is "o.k." --  kind of a peace of mind thing.

Cheers