Another Stupid Oil Question

[2004Tiger]

I spent a bit of time as a bike mechanic and I've changed a few clutches which the owner has admitted to using car oils....

Please note that nobody has advocated use of car oils on this forum. Diesel truck oil is a different thing.

[blacktiger]

I spent a bit of time as a bike mechanic and I've changed a few clutches which the owner has admitted to using car oils....

Please note that nobody has advocated use of car oils on this forum. Diesel truck oil is a different thing.

And what about Diesel car oil?

We don't seem to get Rotella in the UK. Shell may call it Helix over here but I'm reluctant to try that in case it's completely different stuff.

I have to say that I wouldn't risk a fully synth car oil because it MAY be too slippery for the clutch.
Of course, in days past, when all you could get were mineral oils it didn't seem to matter. We'd probably get away with using Semi-synth.

[John Stenhouse]

I spent a bit of time as a bike mechanic and I've changed a few clutches which the owner has admitted to using car oils....

Please note that nobody has advocated use of car oils on this forum. Diesel truck oil is a different thing.

Hmm, isn't that a bit like saying that Car and Motorcycle oil is different, I thought that was the original query?

[2004Tiger]

I spent a bit of time as a bike mechanic and I've changed a few clutches which the owner has admitted to using car oils....

Please note that nobody has advocated use of car oils on this forum. Diesel truck oil is a different thing.

And what about Diesel car oil?

We don't seem to get Rotella in the UK. Shell may call it Helix over here but I'm reluctant to try that in case it's completely different stuff.

I have to say that I wouldn't risk a fully synth car oil because it MAY be too slippery for the clutch.
Of course, in days past, when all you could get were mineral oils it didn't seem to matter. We'd probably get away with using Semi-synth.

I don't know about diesel car oil. Is it the same as diesel truck oil? Has anyone used it in a Tiger and reported the results? I use Shell Rotella Synthetic in my diesel Dodge Cummins, after extensive reading and comparison to other oils. This research showed me that it would be good for my Tiger also, and experience to date by me and others bears this out.

[2004Tiger]

I spent a bit of time as a bike mechanic and I've changed a few clutches which the owner has admitted to using car oils....

Please note that nobody has advocated use of car oils on this forum. Diesel truck oil is a different thing.

Hmm, isn't that a bit like saying that Car and Motorcycle oil is different, I thought that was the original query?

Of course car and motorcycle oil is different. Some of them. Popular wisdom (and oil manufacturers) say you don't want friction modifiers in your clutch. Energy conserving car oil, usually 10-30 weight, have friction modifiers. Other weights usually don't. You are using a car oil in your Tiger, presumably with good results so far. After a while you might feel confident enough to recommend your Duckhams to other Tiger riders, under the same conditions you ride.

Similarly, I independently determined that Rotella Synthetic has the correct combination of additive package, viscosity range, and price for me to stock it and use it in both my Cummins and my Tiger. So far so good. I recommend it for riders under similar conditions of climate and road, and my opinion is reinforced by other users.

I can't recommend a car oil with friction modifier, having never used it in a Tiger, and contrary to advice of experts and users, but it's entirely possible that of the dozens available one or another is good enough.

[John Stenhouse]

I'm not trying to pick a fight here but, your research seems to be flawed.

Diesel truck and car oil of the same spec is identical, there are additive differences between petrol oil and diesel oil, as the site you dismissed as rubbish states.

Shell rotella isn't available in the UK so the point here is moot, as you point out it is the friction modifiers you want to avoid with a wet clutch.

I wouldn't suggest anyone to try what I have in my bike as the conditions they ride under may be very different. I did however consult the manufacturer when I put it in, they didn't recommend it for the reason it wasn't passed to JASO standards.

I found your answers kind of patronising, but as this is a non visual method of communication I may be mistaken, if I am I apologise. If not try not to talk down to those who have done similar research to your own but come to different conclusions.

[2004Tiger]

I'm not trying to pick a fight here but, your research seems to be flawed.

I also am fighting with nobody, or even argueing. I am stating my position and my results. Please point out the flaws you have discovered, perhaps I can restate more clearly, or agree with you.

Diesel truck and car oil of the same spec is identical, there are additive differences between petrol oil and diesel oil, as the site you dismissed as rubbish states.

Please reread my statement. I said "some garbage" not total rubbish. In general that site is good, if common, information. As discussed, bobistheoilguy.com is much more informative.

Shell rotella isn't available in the UK so the point here is moot, as you point out it is the friction modifiers you want to avoid with a wet clutch. I wouldn't suggest anyone to try what I have in my bike as the conditions they ride under may be very different. I did however consult the manufacturer when I put it in, they didn't recommend it for the reason it wasn't passed to JASO standards.

But you might suggest, after you gain some confidence in the oil, that those who ride under similar conditions will have similar results. I have done that.

I found your answers kind of patronising, but as this is a non visual method of communication I may be mistaken, if I am I apologise. If not try not to talk down to those who have done similar research to your own but come to different conclusions.

I may deserve to have my hand slapped. I am a rider and wrencher for 47 years, and a degreed and Registered mechanical engineer of 38 years. I have an intense background in lubricants, adhesives, metallurgy, and machine design. I have studied and rebuilt engines from exotic to ordinary. I am confident in my statements, and too pedantic at times. My conclusions are specific to my circumstances and anyone else must modify them to suit, another's similar research is not expected to match my conclusions (unless they use my data) and I don't see where I devalued any. Lacking background, the general public does well to follow the advice of oil and machinery manufacturers. When I choose not to with good results, am I wrong? Are they wrong? Their advice is for their product usage in general, my choices are for my machine, my climate, my roads in particular, and I'm qualified to do so.

[Mustang]

:shock:

[John Stenhouse]

Calm down Mustang I'm not about to explode  :lol:

[John Stenhouse]

2004 Tiger, Peace brother, I'm not saying your wrong, I can't, I'm not qualified and it ain't my place to do so!

I said you came across as rather patronising, your answer looked from my point of view as;

Your wrong, the site you've provided is rubbish, these are my answers and they're all you need to know!

And that kind of got my back up when you then stated you'd done extensive research but didn't seem to know wether truck oil and car oil were the same.

I guess it's the way you type  :lol:  No hard feelings

[Mustang]

Calm down Mustang I'm not about to explode  :lol:

hehehe

just trying to lighten the mood oil threads seem to always turn nasty , me I just like to make sure that the level stays full  of whatever brand x, y or z that's in it and is changed once in a while !

[John Stenhouse]

You have to be careful online, since you can't see the person your "talking to", it's very easy to take something the wrong way without it ever having meant to be!

Should have learnt my lesson after a 2CV forum member flounced off in a huff after someone posted the most innocuous comment and I put a smiley after it!  OOPS!  :lol:

[2004Tiger]

I have read oil war threads with grin and chagrin, and usually manage to keep my mouth shut. Comparatively, this was merely a skirmish, but I apologise for my behavior, to John and any reader who was offended.

[2004Tiger]

...I just like to make sure that the level stays full  of whatever brand x, y or z that's in it and is changed once in a while !

Agreed. Beyond this sensible but oft ignored axiom, most argument amounts to nitpicking.

[John Stenhouse]

...I just like to make sure that the level stays full  of whatever brand x, y or z that's in it and is changed once in a while !

Agreed. Beyond this sensible but oft ignored axiom, most argument amounts to nitpicking.

So true, perhaps whenever there is an oil thread come up, we should just post this and leave it at that.

I also apologise for my over sensitivity! Peace brothers, we can agree on one thing, we all love Tigers  8)