Metal Fuel Fittings

[EvilBetty]

Ok I know there have been several postings on this, because I have been digging through them for about an hour.  It seems everyone shares the consensus that aftermarket metal is the way to go, but where and what parts to buy is still a bit confusing.

Most recommendations I found were for a kit sold by Team Triumph for around $75.

Others recommend other various sites selling "Colder" brand fittings.

Things I wanted to confirm:

CLEARANCE - Has anyone had any problems with the female fitting sticking out too far compared to the old plastic one?

SIZE / Part# - LCD10004  1/4 BSPT for the female, and LCD23006 3/8" for the Male, w/ VITON rings?  Are both fuel hoses the same size on the tiger?


If all of that is correct, has anyone found a better price than from here?
http://quickcouplings.net/osc/product_i ... cts_id=642 (http://quickcouplings.net/osc/product_info.php?products_id=642)

They have both sets for $42.30 (before shipping)

[2004Tiger]

Good stuff. I have requested Autocad drawings of the fittings so we can see actual dimensions. For size, wouldn't you want both male and female to be 1/4"? And for the o-ring, I would accept buna-N (nitrile), which is their standard, as well as the viton you stated.

Waiting for the Email with DWG files....
Email arrived. Here's what I see:

I selected the lcd10004 female fitting with 1/4" NPT and internal shutoff. It measures .56" from the face at the base of the threads to the latch. Add whatever dimension remains after screwing it in if the face does not contact the plate. (I don't know if 1/4" NPT is the correct connection. Do you?)

Also the lcd23004 male elbow with 1/4" hose barb and internal shutoff. It measures .85" from latch to top.

Add the two dimensions and you get 1.41" total protrusion above the plate on the tank. It looks like the hose and hose clamp will require a little additional clearance.

I have not had my tank off for quite a while so I don't remember what the plastic fittings measure (yes I have the originals). Also I have no idea what space is available in addition to the space required for the original.

Can you take some measurements?

[EvilBetty]

This is the thread where I got the sizes from, and the warning about them possibly not threading in all the way.

http://www.triumphrat.net/tiger-worksho ... ing-2.html (http://www.triumphrat.net/tiger-workshop/78541-broken-fuel-coupling-2.html)

The manufacturer replacements are called Colder (www.colder.com (http://www.colder.com))

the part number for the FEMALE (screw in tank) part is:
LCD10004 BSPT - But **** this is confusing!
Be very carful screwing these in, BSPT is a Tapered thread, which means they only screw in a few threads then then start to bite creating a tight seal on both sides of the thread. This works well with the plastic ones as it creates a tighter fit to prevent fuel leaking but as plastic can deform a bit, you can screw them in further which can also cause them to snap, or over time crack and leak!
With the BSPT in metal, there will be no flex at all and you wont be able to fully screw them in without snapping them (try getting a broken metal thread out! )

The do NOT make a non tapered thread, so if the extra 5-10 mm sticking out causes the male end to be too close to the bike frame, you may need to look into a tap & die set to be able to screw the Female part in further

the MALE connector part is:
LCD23006

No problems at all with the Male end !

[walker]

I can't think of any scenario where clearance would be an issue... The plastic cover fits fine when the metal ones are installed.... it's above the line of the frame (as far as I can tell) and it's not 10mm.... it's 3-5 threads. The threads are 1mm or less, so I would say the difference might be 5 mm? maybe?

the warning that comes with them isn't that they will snap, it's that you might damage them so they would not allow the other end to connect... because you would have squashed them down.... so that part seems correct.  They thread in pretty far before you can feel the tapered part start to become difficult to turn. I wouldn't worry about clearance.

NOTE: I have a 2000 model - tank should be the same, but it IS the 885 motor - not sure of fuel injection differences (and I believe there are some on the 955 motor?).

They aren't really any higher than the electrical fitting for the fuel pump...

[EvilBetty]

Sweet!  Are these the correct parts, or did you buy the Team Triumph kit?

Code Select Expand

2 x LCD10004BSPT - 1/4 BSPT Valved CPC Coupling Body
2 x LCD23006V - 3/8 Hose Barb Valved Elbow CPC Coupling Insert

That's assuming the fuel lines are 3/8 hose, (V=VITON o-rings).


Oh, and is there any magic to removing / installing those particular hose clamps?

[2004Tiger]

OK, I see where you got the part numbers, but in my memory the fuel hoses are smaller than 3/8". Who has their tank off to confirm? If 3/8, my gross clearance requirement from previous post will grow a little, not a problem according to walker.

I see on their website that they have color coding available, a nice feature for those of us who need two sets.

[DaJudge]

You should NOT have to pay to replace the male elbows if yours are still plastic.  That's a factory recall item that is supposed to be taken care (w/ metal replacements) of by Triumph for no charge.  Triumph should have taken care of the flimsy plastic female fittings under recall as well, but never did.

The only parts you should have to order are the two female fittings that screw into the tank/fuel pump plate.  Get them from TeamTriumph (which is an excellent store IMHO--I got my tank fittings from them)  They run about $17 each plus shipping and come with good instructions.   They are an exact replacement for your female fittings, only metal.  I wouldn't mess with getting something else.  

The only hard part is to get the old plastic fittings out intact.  Both of mine broke off leaving a nice bit of plastic inside for me to have to dig out without damaging the plate threads (not a quick nor easy task, but I took my time and got it all out).

[EvilBetty]

You should NOT have to pay to replace the male elbows if yours are still plastic.  That's a factory recall item that is supposed to be taken care (w/ metal replacements) of by Triumph for no charge.  Triumph should have taken care of the flimsy plastic female fittings under recall as well, but never did.

Correct, but my dealer only seems to want to replace them on my 2005 if they have already failed.  And the replacement OEM metal parts Triumph provides are not valved, these are.  The tank fittings MUST be valved to prevent a huge mess, but on the safe side I'd like the male fittings valved the same way the OEM plastic ones were.

[walker]

Sweet!  Are these the correct parts, or did you buy the Team Triumph kit?

Code Select Expand

2 x LCD10004BSPT - 1/4 BSPT Valved CPC Coupling Body
2 x LCD23006V - 3/8 Hose Barb Valved Elbow CPC Coupling Insert
That's assuming the fuel lines are 3/8 hose, (V=VITON o-rings).


Oh, and is there any magic to removing / installing those particular hose clamps?

team triumph kit. Didn't have to worry if it worked or not. Plus they were really friendly and good service (also got a service manual there too).

the hose clamps can be removed with a pair of needlenose pliers and a small screwdriver - you just have to remove the pressure, it's like a small clasp - the tension holds it together (hard to explain). The nice thing about the team triumph kit is the instructions had some good tips and walk you through all of that.

Hardest part is removing the old fittings without them breaking. One of mine came out good - the other did not (that plastic is pathetic - very brittle). Just like DaJudge said.

The only bonus I See on the team triumph male fittings- they have a similar valve system where the triumph ones are open - I always had my old ones drip fuel everywhere - these seal off when disconnected - on both ends. Kinda cool. I guess it would have new o-rings too - the recall ones they swapped in had some crappy o-rings!

[Chris Canning]

Well the way i did it,if you look at the Team Triumph offering if you study the card they are on,there's a name,it's an American company,i found the UK importer and ordered them

http://www.tom-parker.co.uk/products_su ... roups=899A (http://www.tom-parker.co.uk/products_subgroups.php?v=1&recall=true&products_categories=2&products_groups=899&products_subgroups=899A)

[DaJudge]

You should NOT have to pay to replace the male elbows if yours are still plastic.  That's a factory recall item that is supposed to be taken care (w/ metal replacements) of by Triumph for no charge.  Triumph should have taken care of the flimsy plastic female fittings under recall as well, but never did.

Correct, but my dealer only seems to want to replace them on my 2005 if they have already failed.  And the replacement OEM metal parts Triumph provides are not valved, these are.  The tank fittings MUST be valved to prevent a huge mess, but on the safe side I'd like the male fittings valved the same way the OEM plastic ones were.

I'm a bit confused (more than I normally am). Are the male elbows on your bike metal already?  I believe the recall was in 2004 (for '01 thru '04 models), so they may have installed metal elbows on the '05 models at the factory.  The male elbow part isn't valved, only the female fittings that are on the tank need the auto shut-off.  

My bike had both male elbows done under recall, so they are both metal.  All I had to do was install two of the TeamTriumph female connectors to the tank.  The male recall parts snapped right into them.

[Chris Canning]

You should NOT have to pay to replace the male elbows if yours are still plastic.  That's a factory recall item that is supposed to be taken care (w/ metal replacements) of by Triumph for no charge.  Triumph should have taken care of the flimsy plastic female fittings under recall as well, but never did.

Correct, but my dealer only seems to want to replace them on my 2005 if they have already failed.  And the replacement OEM metal parts Triumph provides are not valved, these are.  The tank fittings MUST be valved to prevent a huge mess, but on the safe side I'd like the male fittings valved the same way the OEM plastic ones were.

I'm a bit confused (more than I normally am). Are the male elbows on your bike metal already?  I believe the recall was in 2004 (for '01 thru '04 models), so they may have installed metal elbows on the '05 models at the factory.  The male elbow part isn't valved, only the female fittings that are on the tank need the auto shut-off.  

My bike had both male elbows done under recall, so they are both metal.  All I had to do was install two of the TeamTriumph female connectors to the tank.  The male recall parts snapped right into them.

Mine is the same,and i did the same.

[EvilBetty]

Mine is an 2005 and has the plastic valved male fittings.  The metal Triumph fittings are non-valved.

Has anyone confirmed the fuel line size?  I've seen 3/8" on other threads but I've also seen some say 1/4".  It sure looks bigger than 1/4" to me, but I don't have the most seasoned eye when it comes to such things.

[EvilBetty]

Apparently you can't get the Viton rings from QuickCouplers or Colder unless you special order in quantities over 100, with a $75 special fee.   :x


BUT... they come with BUNA-N rings...

NITRILE OR BUNA N (NBR) Typical Trade Names:

    * Chemigum Goodyear Tire & Rubber Co.
    * Paracril Uniroyal
    * Hyvcar Goodrich Chemical Co.
    * Krynac Polysar, Ltd.
    * Ny Syn Copolymer Rubber & Chem. Corp.

Buna N or Nitrile, is a copolymer of butadiene and acrylonitrile. Acrylonitrile content is varied in commercial products from 18% to 48%. As the nitrile content increases, resistance to petroleum base oils and hydrocarbon fuels increases, but low temperature flexibility decreases. Due to its excellent resistance to petroleum products, and its ability to be compounded for service over a temperature range of -65 to + 275 degrees F (- 54 to +135 degrees C), Nitrile is the most widely used etastomer in the seal industry today. Most military rubber specifications for fuel and oil resistant MS and AN 0-rings require nitrile base compounds. It should be mentioned, however, that to obtain good resistance to low temperature with nitrile compounding, it is almost always necessary to sacrifice some high temperature fuel and oil resistance. Nitrile compounds are superior to most elastomers with regard to compression set or cold flow, tear and abrasion resistance. Inherently, they do possess good resistance to ozone, sunlight or weather but this can be substantially improved through compounding. However, since ozone and weather resistance are not always built in, seals from nitrile bases should not be stored near electric motors or other equipment which may generate ozone, or in direct sunlight.

Nitrile Is Recommended for:

    * General purpose sealing.
    * Petroleum oils and fluids.
    * Cold Water.
    * Silicone greases and oils
    * Di-ester base lubricants (MIL-L-7808).
    * Ethylene glycol base fluids (Hydrolubes)

Nitrile is not recommended for:

    * Halogenated hydrocarbons (carbon tetrachloride, trichloroethylene)
    * Nitro hydrocarbons (nitrobenzene, aniline)
    * Phosphate ester hydraulic fluids (Skydrol, Fyrquel, Pydraul).
    * Ketones (MEK, acetone)
    * Strong Acids Ozone
    * Automotive brake fluid.

So they should be fine, right?

I called the dealer and they say the lines are 10mm.  I broke out the micrometer and measured the plastic exposed from the fuel line to be 10.98mm.

So 10mm = 0.3937".

3/8" = 0.375".

Is that right?  Close enough?

Anyone mind confirming any of this?   :oops:

[EvilBetty]

Anyone?