Regarding Charging System Failures

[Stretch]

It could be that small bits of lead, having flaked off the plates in the battery, shorted a cell and caused some of the incoming voltage to dump to ground inside the battery.  The new battery, having no lead deposits laying across the bottom of the cells, is able to accept and use the full charge coming from the charging system.

[Tom Herold]

I finally had a chance to run the bike out on the highway for an extended run to monitor what's going on with my voltage. I installed my Datel LCD display volt meter so now I have a better idea of what's happening.  I took my spare battery off the charger/maintainer and put it in the bike just because I didn't know the age of the one that came with the bike when I bought it.

When I start it and it's at high idle I'm getting 14.3

After the bike's warmed to the point of the cooling fan kicking on at idle I'm averaging 13.3 without any accessories on.

When I kick on my Pia driving lights, I'm down around 12.7.  Kick on the heated grips on high and I'm down to 12.3 average while at idle.

When running at 65mph/4300rpm without accessories I'm at 14.6. Add in the Pia's and I'm down to 13.8, then the grips take me to 13.3.

These are averages so I think I'm okay for now and will keep a close eye on things.  

I'm still thinking the relocation of the rectifier to a place where it can breath and cool better is of the highest importance. As it warms up, on my bike it's performance is greatly reduced.  In South Carolina it gets down-right hot, and I mean like Africa hot, in the Summer months and I'm going to need to address the rectifier relocation/cooling before I fry another one.

[Stretch]

Sounds about normal, Tom.

[Tom Herold]

Just got off the phone with Ricks, we had a lengthy discussion and I have to say  I'm very impressed with his concern and professionalism. It's far too rare in this day and age to find quality customer service like this!

In summary, our conversation centered around the connector failure, and he stated it's not uncommon because the stator's running at the high end of the output capability. Due to the heating and cooling of the charging system, if you're not using a dielectric grease, the corrosion of the connectors creates even more heat and will eventually cause the issue we're seeing.

I used dielectric grease and still had the failure.  He was quite happy with the voltage readings after cutting the connectors and soldering the wires together. I passed on to him the concern of Tiger 955i owners and he told me he's developed a high-end stator and regulator/rectifier compatible with our machines. This new set-up's far more capable of running cooler and disapating the excess voltage. Though it's be a bit more expensive, my reply was "okay, I'll pay more if I don't have to replace it every year or 10k miles".

He didn't give me a time frame on availability but from what I gathered, I'll guess and say it'll be soon.

We discussed my voltage readings at idle, cold and hot, and while running out on the highway. He's happy with my readings and confident getting rid of the connector will keep things good for quite a while.

Let's Ride!

[Stretch]

Good to know that our mods are in line with Rick's line of thinking, thanks.  I've had good experience in dealing with him also, and am ecstatic that he's addressing our problems first-hand.  I'm still waiting on a part for my latest round of Mad Scientist experiments.

[matttys]

N00B alert on the electrical thread  

I'd rather not be posting here, but my experiences yesterday led me to post.  Did the voltage fix when I added an AP-2 for accessory HID lights, horn, Datel and had been running at mid to high 13's at idle.  While riding I was still in the 13's.  

Today I ride the bike to work and see no issues on the ride to work.  When I run some errands over lunch I see the Datel reading 12.5, then 12, then 11.5. . . At this point I turn off the head lights and just run the parking lamps.  By the time I return back to the office the tac has gone dead and I'm running about 9V on the Datel.  Of course the bike doesn't start after work.

I've ordered a new battery as I have no idea how old the current battery is (installed by the PO).  I imagine that if the problem persists and the bike is not charging the battery I will be posting on this thread a little more frequently in the future  :roll:

[Tom Herold]

It could be your battery's the culprit. Make sure you charge it before sticking in the bike!

I just changed the bulbs in my Pia's from 55 to 35W's to help free up some wattage..... we'll see how that works out.

Let us know how the battery change affects things, hopefully it's an easy fix!

[matttys]

It could be your battery's the culprit. Make sure you charge it before sticking in the bike!

Let us know how the battery change affects things, hopefully it's an easy fix!

I'm betting on this as the problem as I bought the bike in November and rode it all the way home from Tallahassee, Fl to Columbus, Oh in two days with my Gerbing jacket running nearly the entire time.  Without knowing the age of the battery and if it's some how shorted out I'm hoping a new battery will solve the problem.  I also float charged the battery before every test so short trips around the neighborhood wouldn't likely show any problems.  

I will report back once the battery is in.

[mrazekan]

I was of the same mindset initially, but decided that I ought to match the R/R output with the Stator output.  I don't want to overload the Stator by pulling too much Wattage through the R/R (which the 500-Watt R/R itself could handle without complaint).

Although I do understand your point about a 500-Watt R/R handling the 350-Watt Stator without even breathing hard.  A 500-Watt R/R will indeed run cooler than a 350-Watt R/R under the same conditions.

I also didn't want to rely on push-on spade connectors, as that's about the only way to wire up the 500-watt part...

Stretch,

I ran an experiment today which I will detail here:
http://tigertriple.com/forum/index.php/topic,5224

But one observation applies to this thread and a conversation we had here.  The short of it is that the stator in my bike was poorly designed.  At maximum output, the RR is only putting out about 175watts.  (14.5A x 12V)  What this tells me is that all of the power the stator is putting out is going directly into running the bike and charging the battery.  Or in my case, running the bike requires more power than what the stator is outputting and the battery is providing the rest this discharging.

The point is that even though the RR is rated for 350W, it does not force the stator to put out more than what it possibly can or 175W.  This the 500W RR will not overload the 350W stator.  The stator will put out the 350W at all times.  If the bike is not using it, the the 500W RR will EASILY dissipate that power as heat.

There is no way that the Tiger will not use some of the 350W being output by the stator.  Because of that, the RR should never be close to dissipating 350W as heat.  So a 350W RR should be more than enough.

[Stretch]

The stock 955i Stator simply isn't stout enough to run everything we'd like.  We've all seen other bikes running a pair or two of auxiliary lights, heated grips and gear, along with various and sundry GPS and stereo systems.  You just can't do that with a Tiger.

All that is just too much for a 955i charging system.  By using shorter and larger-gauge wires, a Sasquatch Fix, and a bigger, more efficient Regulator / Rectifier, the only thing left is the stock Stator, which we are stuck with.  Increasing the capacity of everything else but the stator, while running too much electrical load, puts the overload squarely on the Stator, which it can't handle.  It's not made to supply that much juice.

Running a 500-watt R/R ought not hurt anything, as long as the rider remembers that he hasn't actually increased the capacity of the charging system.  The stock 955i Stator will always be limited to 350 watts( and even then it has to be 100% healthy), and until the aftermarket catches up with the 955i's need for more charging capacity, we need to be very careful about what demands we make on it.

I used a 350-watt R/R from a 2007+  Honda CBR600 because of its cooler-running MOSFET design (model FH008EB), and that it comes with plugs at the end of wires.  The plugs can be clipped off, and the wires soldered to the rest of the charging system, eliminating problems with push-on connectors (which I have also experienced).

I believe these dialogues have worked out most of the charging system problems, with the exception of the Stator.  Dimensionally, it's limited to the inside diameter of the flywheel / rotor, so it's not possible to simply drop in a bigger, more powerful one.

[matttys]

All that is just too much for a 955i charging system.  By using shorter and larger-gauge wires, a Sasquatch Fix, and a bigger, more efficient Regulator / Rectifier, the only thing left is the stock Stator, which we are stuck with.  Increasing the capacity of everything else but the stator, while running too much electrical load, puts the overload squarely on the Stator, which it can't handle.  It's not made to supply that much juice.

I've tried teh Sasquatch fix twice now without success. I'm using 10 ga wire and am connecting the wires as directed in the fix thread.  I've got a 10 ga weather pack fuse holder wired with a 30 amp fuse and everything is soldered together.  Every time I try starting the engine no power is getting to the battery.  With the stock lamps on I'm seeing right around 12 at idle and 12.25 cruising. If I turn the stock lamps off I'm seeing 13 at idle.  I'm a bit bummed out that the fix really didn't work as I'd love to get the most out of my system.  

Red and blue wire going to the negative is my make shift 'black' ground wire.

[Stretch]

What was the voltage beforehand?  The Sasquatch fix won't make up for a weak Stator or a R/R with a burned-out diode.  

And you're sure you have it wired correctly?



The three black wires together on the left side of the R/R (#70) go to the Stator (#69) in no specific order.

The two Brown wires in the R/R (#70) are spliced together into the fuse holder, and then to the Positive battery terminal (#67).

The remaining two Black wires in the R/R (#70, far right) are spliced into one big wire and connected to the Negative battery terminal (#67).

Make sure your fuse is good.  Test all the connections for continuity with a multimeter.

[matttys]

I'm actually guessing the stator and RR aren't really performing up to their potential.  I plan on testing the entire system over the upcoming few days.  Theoretically installing a Rick's stator and RR should get me to the standard 350w . . . how difficult is it to get the stator out?  Would I need a flywheel puller?

[EvilBetty]

The stator on my 2005 is behind and attached to the alternator cover.  
http://www.bikebandit.com/triumph-motor ... 5sch568713

Detach the stator harness.

Remove the bolts in the cover.

Remove the breather hose.

Three bolts holding the stator in the cover.

One bolt clamping the wiring harness into the cover.

[Stretch]

I had a more difficult time with the R/R, all tucked up under the seat with the bolt heads facing the battery box.  It's tight in there, but it's only two  bolts (8mm wrench).