36k Maintenance

[Tom Herold]

All right....

I bought the Tigger last December with 18.5k on it and i'm running up on 35k now. Thanks to all the construction around Charleston, I picked up a nice piece of steel rod in the rear tire. (Let me tell you, Charleston has the dirtiest roads I've ever experienced as far as debris)

So the big cat's laid up until the new Conti comes in. I figured i'd go through the valve shims, clean the stepper motor, blow out the air filter, lube the cables and install new brake pads. The coolant was flushed and filled at the 24k interval, and the chain and sprockets were replaced too.

I ran through the valves and find all but 2 are way out of spec..... and I mean way out on the loose side, like .3mm on two of the exhaust side.  My experience has been that valves get tighter over time because of wear and friction, anyone else had this happen to them?

I've done valve shims on Triumph triples and fours for years having owned several (and still do), and this is a first..... I always remeasure after the new shims go in and sometimes have to correct a couple of times to get the right clearance, and I always shoot for the looser side of the specifications to keep things from getting too tight over time.

Thoughts?

[blacktiger]

I would put in the correct shims and maybe check again after 6K instead of the usual 12K.

[JetdocX]

Make sure the engine is cold before you check your clearances.  FWIW, I never was able to get them all right the first time through.   :oops:

[Tom Herold]

Always checked and adjusted cold....

I'm pretty demanding of myself when it comes to maintenance, and always check and recheck the clearances with a digital gauge for the shims themselves and a multitude of feelers under teh cam lobes to get as close as possible.

I might fall back to the 6k check for the next one just to be sure... with the soft heads on these machines I want to prevent sinking the valves or damaging their seats.

6k will count down pretty quick for me as I ride everyday, I'll let you all know what I find then.

[Tom Herold]

So I crank out my 36k maintenance, check and recheck the valve shim clearances before buttoning things up. Go to start the bike and it sounds like it's struggling to turn over. Brand new battery, fully charged and ready to go. It turns over but acting like it's not getting fuel.

So I listen for the fuel pump, and it's doing its thing.....

Then the bike wants to start but runs rough... then things smooth out. Kind of....

I let it warm up, check for leaks and decide it's time to ride.... the idle is different, not as smooth sounding, almost like I can hear each cylinder firing rather than the purr I'm used to.... hhhmmmm.... scratches head... screw it, lets ride....

It runs fine, but the engine sound is different. Then one valve starts ticking louder than that rest... so I go home, rip the bike down and recheck clearances. All but one are right where I left them, the odd ball is now on the first #1 exhaust valve and its tight on it's lowest specification.  So I adjust the shim again, it's back to the middle of the specs, button the bike back up, throw a balance on the throttle bodies just because, and finish putting it back in order.

Fire it up again, starts right away, still the distinct idle of hearing the cylinders fire, not the purr I heard before this maintenance.... it's warm idle is at 1000-1100rpm, and voltage is running 12.8 up to 14.2 at 2500 rmp and above.

So I ride it again, and there's still a valve singing louder than all the rest regardless if it's at idle or at 4k RPM. The oil is fresh and checked at it's proper level both hot and cold.... I'm thinking the throttle position sensor need replaced or adjusted - it's running a bit rich, I smell it while at stop lights, but I'm not in the mood to tear it apart again.....

I put down about 100 miles today, it runs well, strong, idles decent just differently, and is getting the same 42mpg it was before..... but that one valve has my attention and the idle just doesn't "feel" right.

Does anyone have a valve or two that tick a little louder that the others regardless of engine speed or load?

Thoughts on the TPS being the culprit on the idle issue?

Thanks all.

[SERadtke]

Hey Tom,
I'm new to Tigers but not fuel injection or OBDII. My understanding of the TP sensor on the Tiger is that the processor doesn't look for a certain value at idle, it just looks for a consistent value over time (a learned value). By doing a TB balance, you may have changed the value the processor WAS seeing to a new value. This would certainly cause some issues. Without knowing what the learned value was, it would be difficult to find the sweet spot your processor learned previously. (I was having idle issues at one point and looked extensively for a TP value to set the TP to but found it is a learned value). At this point, I would think your best bet would be the 12 minute tune.

[Tom Herold]

Thanks Shawn, interesting info. Since you're up on this better than me, I saw in the manual the TPS has a resistance value it's supposed to read at closed throttle.

Since this is a "learning" system does it need the base line value to start from? Or will it learn the current value the TPS is sending as it goes through the 12 minute cold start idle without throttle input?

Thanks again, I'm learning here and it's good stuff.

[Stretch]

The Twelve-Minute Tune resets all the values read by the various sensors, and starts the 'learning' portions of the ECU over with a clean slate.

With the bike stone-cold, start the engine, then touch nothing.  You don't want to give it any throttle, brake, clutch, or any other input to the ECU.  Just start it and let it idle.

Start your timer when the radiator fan first turns on.  Give it the full twelve minutes, then shut the bike off with the key (not the red kill rocker switch).

[Tom Herold]

Got it, I'll give it a shot and let you know how it goes

[SERadtke]

Stretch is the man!

[Tom Herold]

Did the 12 minute tune as Stretch outlined, let the bike sit and cool overnight and went to start it the next morning.

At first it didn't want to idle at all without accelerator input, then decided idling wasn't so hard to do and cooperated. Then it decided it wanted to die everytime I pulled in the clutch to shift gears..... but I kept at it and after a mile or so, it stopped dying and ran okay.  

So I took it out yesterday, a nice 75 mile run, and though it still starts rough, meaning initial stall after stabing the starter button the first and second times, then rough idle until it collects itself, the bike seems to be running okay.

I still have a loud tick coming from a valve, regardless of the engine speed, it's there. I've checked, re-checked, and re-re- checked the valve clearances, they're right where they're supposed to be.

Does anyone else have a valve that ticks a bit louder than the rest?

[Medic09]

I'll be following this with interest, despite my mechanical ineptitude.  The '02 Tiger I bought last week also runs just fine, but has one loud ticking valve.  I don't recall hearing it when I test rode and bought the bike last week.  A few days later it was there.  The bike also hesitates to start, even with the fresh battery, but I'm not sure it is different/worse than my '01 Sprint - so that may be normal.  The Sprint, with the same motor I believe, purrs and has none of the audible constant ticking I hear from the Tiger.

[Tom Herold]

Hey there Medic090, you and I chatted over on the other forum a bit when I had my 2000 Sprint ST, welcome to the Tiger Triple site!

I too remember my Sprint being a bit quieter and certainly not having a valve ticking louder than the rest.

I have to be honest, though it's a bit loud, the bike isn't smoking and doesn't perform any different, so I'm just going to monitor it, making sure it doesn't get worse, and do another shim clearance check at 6k miles just to feel better about it.

I loved my Sprint, still get to ride it since my brother in law has it now, but these Tigers, there's a lot to be said about them.  I feel I have the perfect combination between the Tiger and Trophy in the garage... might even sell of the Harley since it doesn't get ridden much anymore....

[MikeBenzon]

Tom, I have read through your messages and I do not see any mention of you performing a throttle body balance. Did you do this? When you adjust your valves, you change the performance value of each cylinder and they are no longer in balance. This will have a definite effect on the motor. It will idle rougher and the power will not be as smooth and strong as it was before the work.
I recently performed my first valve adjustment and throttle body balance. It took me two times to get the balance right, but when I did, boy did I feel a difference in how well the bike runs. It has never been smoother or as strong as it feels now.

[Tom Herold]

Hi Mike, yes, I balance the throttle bodies every time I do the valves.

I decided to do the 36k maintenance early because of the problems the bike started to develop; hard starting, loss of power, excessive fuel consumption, etc.

As you've read, I'm still fighting the rough starting and have developed a horrible tick, which I've isloated to the exhaust side of the cams and think it's in the #1 cylinder area.

I'm running the bike up to Charlotte, NC, this coming weekend. Actually, I'm trailering it, so they can give it a listen and plug it in for a diagnostic check since I don't quite trust my new Triumph dealer yet. I really hate trailer a bike.....

I'll update the thread when I know something more.