Another sick Girly - stumbling, erratic idle, dieing

[FrostedFlake]

I posted the following in a thread started by Pletdj, http://tigertriple.com/forum/viewtopic. ... f080e09b27 ,
as we seemed to be experiencing similar problems.  Mine started to take on a life of its own, so I'm reposting here to avoid further hijacking of the original topic.

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Pardon the highjack, but I'm having a similar problem with slightly different symptoms. Mine starts right up, stumbles but does not die. After a few seconds, it sounds and runs fine. Then, within a block to a couple of miles, it stumbles again, won't rev, THEN dies. Starts right back up, but still won't rev. Sometimes after a start or two, it powers back up, sometimes I have to wait a few minutes. Has left me stranded three times this week.

I took it to my friend who has a car repair shop and pulled a code with his scanner. It had several, probably old ones (since I've never pulled or cleared them), but one said something about the throttle sensor. I can't remember the others. I even replaced the battery Friday, since it showed to be weak, but Saturday it died within two blocks from my house.

No dealer within 350 miles, so I can't get a remap easily. Wondering if it's worth pulling the tank, checking fuel related things like a fuel filter, kinked hoses, etc., or if possibly the throttle position sensor is bad based on the code (anyone ever experienced a bad TPS?) Haven't tried the 12 minute drill, maybe I should first. Oh, to elaborate on the facts a bit more, it's an '06, right at 12k miles, bone stock engine (original tune and pipe). Thoughts? Is there some type of Tiger virus going around right now or what?

Pletdj, sorry, but I thought maybe all our symptoms were close enough that sharing info might be productive.
 

Stretch volunteered this info:

Maybe there's some useful information in this thread:

http://tigertriple.com/forum/index.php/topic,6443

... and EvilBetty said:

Definitely try the 12 minute reset first with that problem. If that doesn't fix it there have been those with TPS's going bad.

Someone on another post claimed this was the same part.
http://store.alternatorparts.com/partno ... 02284.aspx

I added some more info this morning:

Update. I tried the 12 minute tune at midnight last night. Apparently, whatever my problem is, it's getting worse. Started it up, died immediately. Started again, died. Did this several times, finally started idling, but very rough and erratic. Died once or twice more before the fan kicked on, got exactly twelve minutes of rough/stumbling/erratic idle before dieing. Hopefully it hit the magic 12 minute mark. Decided to let it sit until I can slip away from work at lunch, also plan to borrow my friend's code reader and see what it comes up with. Will post the results, but based on how it was running (or not), I'm not optimistic.

EB and Stretch, I read the linked thread, guess I'll start going through the process of elimination later in the week. Betty, excuse my ignorance, but is the part you posted (manifold air pressure sensor) the same as a throttle position sensor? If not, is Triumph the only source for a TPS? If a new TSP is installed, would a trip to the dealer for a map zap still be required to let the new TSP "learn" the appropriate settings?

and coachgeo commented:

FF my gut feeling on yours is something like a small fuel screen blockage.

That should have us up to date.  Any ideas?

[FrostedFlake]

Here is the result of the latest scan:

"PO123
Throttle/pedal position sensor/
Switch A - circuit high input"

Assuming I can find one available, should I just start with replacing the TPS and then work backwards if that doesn't solve the problem, or pull the tank now and see if I can find anything obviously wrong?  Option 3, load it up, take a day off, drive to a dealer who has proper diagnostic tools?   :?:

[Hatepylons]

Here is the result of the latest scan:

"PO123
Throttle/pedal position sensor/
Switch A - circuit high input"

Just to confirm, that was after your friend cleared all the codes - this one surfaced again?

[FrostedFlake]

Yes, in fact, I accidentally cleared the codes before getting a reading -    :x    -  and when I started it up to see if I could get it to act up again, it ran fine.  I rode down the street and within three blocks, it died on me.  I pulled the code right there.  
(oh, and this was after doing the 12-minute tune).

[Stretch]

"PO123
Throttle/pedal position sensor/
Switch A - circuit high input"
:

Throttle Position Sensor.  That's what was wrong with Klingklang's also.

TPS failure is a common malady on newer Jeep vehicles (like mine) also.

Fuel injection.  Gotta love it.   :roll:

[FrostedFlake]

So Stretch, I know it's a tough question to answer, but would you just opt for ordering a replacement or do you think there's a shot that a remap might solve the problem?  

The fact that it seems to get worse every time I start the bike makes me wonder if anything other than a new TSP would remedy the situation.

[EvilBetty]

I don't think the error would be thrown unless the sensor was bad.

[Stretch]

Although nobody can accurately make that determination over the intyweb, I would agree that for the code to be thrown again after the ECU was cleared of codes, it would appear that the TPS is bad.

[FrostedFlake]

Don't worry, I won't hold you responsible.  :)  Hopefully I can locate a dealer with a TPS in stock and not have to wait for Bike Bandit.  Doesn't look like the cost is too outrageous, and the downtime will give me time to go ahead and check the valves and such.  Will post results when I have them.  Thanks for all the help.

[Stretch]

Dealers with good reputations who will ship parts:

http://www.mascycles.com/

http://www.baxtercycle.com/

http://www.pure-triumph.com/

[FrostedFlake]

Thanks.  None of the shops I called had one in stock, but all were willing to order and ship.  I went with the closest place to me, in the Dallas area, in case I end up needing to take it in for a remap or something if the sensor doesn't fix the problem.  But I'm optimistic.  

Hate being down this time of year, the weather is absolutely gorgeous.  The dealer checked availability before ordering and swore Triumph showed plenty in stock, so should only be a week or so.  :roll:

[FrostedFlake]

One more follow-up question:  I started to pull my tank last night in prep for the TSP arrival, figured I'd do all the 12k maintenance while it's apart.  Before I got started, for some reason, I turned on my key.  Instead of the normal (to me) fairly healthy fuel pump whine as it pressured up, I could barely hear a faint buzz.  It was the same duration, like the pressure pumped up adequately, but nowhere near the noise level I'm accustomed to (this is my second Girly, and both have made the same noticeable whine - does everyone else's have an audible whine when the key is turned on?)  Maybe I'm just being paranoid, but I'm trying to keep my eyes open for other potential problems in case the TSP replacement doesn't solve my issue.  

Should I be concerned about the new stealthy fuel pump?  It's obviously pumping up, but could it be at a reduced level and thus causing my fuel issues?  Nothing had been removed or disconnected from the bike at the time, and it has been sitting for a couple of days.

I proceeded with the tank removal and pulled the fuel pump assembly.  The screen and fuel filter seemed clear, but I'll go ahead and replace the filter.  The air filter has some dust, nothing major, can't decide whether to clean it out or replace.  Spark plugs are a little on the black side - not fouled, but worthy of replacing while it's apart.  Valve check is next on the list, then throttle bodies.  

I did notice that the TSP is going to be a bear to get to, as the bolts that attach it are blocked by the frame.   :icon_scratch  Looks like the throttle body may have to come out to get to it.

[EvilBetty]

Yes mine whines as well, but not every time.  Sometimes it just hums as it pressurizes.  It seems more apt to whine when it's been sitting longer.

[FrostedFlake]

Update - I received the replacement TPS last night.  As suspected, the throttle bodies had to be pulled in order to get to the torx screws holding the TSP on.  No big deal, I wanted to pull and clean them and the injectors anyway.  What I failed to realize was that I should have ordered the throttle body gasket when I ordered the TSP - it's very thin and tore in several spots when I pulled the TB's.  What are the odds that my friendly neighborhood Triumph dealer in another time zone might have one in stock?  Zip, nada, nil.  So, for a $3 gasket, it'll take another week.      

My throttle bodies had a white, chalky substance inside, as did the injectors.  The injectors weren't clogged, but the chalky stuff was all around the tips.  Guess I had some bad gas at some point, I'll definitely take a closer look inside the tank before it goes back on.  Don't remember seeing any sediment in there when I pulled the fuel pump unit, though.  I cleaned up the TBs and the injectors, and put them aside.  

Was a little apprehensive about the valves, but guess I shouldn't have worried.  The intakes were all in spec (although a couple were getting close at .102), and the exhausts were, if anything, on the loose side (three at .203 and one at .229).  I've never noticed any noise from the loose ones, so unless someone has a horror story for me, I guess I'll leave well enough alone, button up the valves, clean everything else up nice and pretty, and wait for my gasket.  

Oh, noticed in my Haynes manual that supposedly, if you pull the TSP, you have to get the dealer to reset it using his special Triumph diagnostic tool.  I'm hopeful that a 12-minute tune might do the same?  Even if it's not perfect, I'd like to be able to ride the 350 miles to the shop instead of trailering the hefty steed.  We'll see...

[FrostedFlake]

Well, it looks like replacing the throttle position sensor did the trick!  Finally received the throttle body gasket and found some time to get out in the garage, and even though I haven't given it a full test, it seems to be back to normal.  I ended up doing all the 12k service while I was in there, so I guess something else I did could have solved it, but I'm sticking with the evil TPS.  :twisted:

Oh, and FYI, the 12-minute tune seemed to set the new sensor.  The engine light was on when I first fired it up, did the tune and the light went away.  All seems fine, so unless I take a long ride and have issues, I'm closing the file on this one.  Thanks to everyone who offered advice.