Electrical Issue on a 2000 885i. Need input.

[haroldo_psf]

As many of you are aware, I am in a never ending quest, so far successful, in getting my new to me 50K miles old Tiger 885i to run like it did when it was new. The bike has been abused, dropped, and submerged under water.

After replacing TPS, IACV, crankshaft sensor, fuel filter, etc etc etc, all idling issues are cured. It doesn't stall, idles at the right speed, etc.

However, something still remains and I saw it happening by accident.

A little background. Before I replaced the crankshaft sensor, idling was confused and low at 900 to 1000 rpm. The engine would sometimes just fall out of rythm, then it would pick it back up, then fall out again, etc.

While I was doing a 12 minutes tune before replacing the sensor, after the bike was warm, the idling would become confused and beats were missing, and eventually it would stall.

I was thinking, of course, it would stall because it was having the crankshaft position sensor issue, heard by the weak idling.

Well, last night after I replaced the sensor, I tried a 12 minute tune again. After it was fully warm, the RPM was steady at 1200! It was very smooth, no missing fires, no knocking, it was great, and I was very satisfied and proud of myself.

And then it happened, and I was right there... I had never heard or noticed when the fans came on before, but this time I happened to be with my face right on the dash board.

So when the fans kicked in, I was able to hear them and feel the blast of hot air in my face. And also noticed that the dash lights went dim, and also the head lights went dim! The idling because a little weak (not confused at before, just weak), and a few seconds later it stalled!

I saw it happening, and it was directly related to the fans coming on!

Also, during a 1200 miles trip two weeks ago, in the middle of the day after the bike had been running for hours, we stopped for gas, and the bike wouldn't start. The dash lights would come on, but would go dim when the starter was pushed, and it would try to crank, but not enough juice.

I will replace the battery today, but the previous owner said it was replaced about 2 years ago...

I know the electrical system on the 885i is different than the 955i. Is there any common electrical issue I should be aware of? Any ideas?

[Mustang]

unless you spring for big buck batteries .2 years is pretty good for a tigger battery .....I run walmart batteries in my tiggers and generally get 2 years out of them .
and FYI the batteries that came in my steamers when they were new only lasted 2 years .

[walker]

the previous owner might not remember exactly as well. On my little golf TDI car - I thought I had just replace my battery 3 years ago. I checked my old quicken records - it was actually 5 years, almost to the day.

I agree with mustang - I'll replace mine every few years when they get weak, and I get the best deal on them possible.

Try a new battery (which you did) and see what it does :)

[haroldo_psf]

Thanks for the input. While reading the service manual for better understanding of the electrical system, it turns out the alternator is spec'ed for 40A at 12V, for 480W. That's pretty good.

It seems my rectifier and stator are all in the same unit?

Also, attached are a picture of a page on section 16 of the service manual where it describes the 3 relays I should have. The other picture is what I have, which is only 1. How is this possible? It is in the place of the main ECU relay, but I know my fans come on, and that my fuel is also powered, obviously, so how is this possible?

Next time i take the tank off, I will trace every single wire on this thing and see what the hell is going on.

[walker]

man! you keep making me go and look at my bike!

nope - yours is correct. There is only one relay there and the fuse box.

I looked at a few other pics I had when the tank was off, don't see one near there either.... the relays are probably tucked up under the front fairing. I think there are a few relays on the left side under next to the headlight.

Don't know exactly though.

[Bixxer Bob]

Tucked up under the left side of the nose fairing are three sockets for relays (on a 955i anyway).  Only one is populated as stadard and it swaps the left lights for dip to the right for main.  If you install a further two relays, you get both lamps on for dip and both lamps on for main - which is what I have.

The problem of course is that one lamp dips left and the doesn't. Technically, that is not legal, although I've never had an MOT fail (yet.... :roll: ).

[haroldo_psf]

So, WTF?
Who was the retarted individual or department at Triumph that wrote the service manual? I'm confused how something can be so badly documented, and wonder, how the hell do service techs work on this bike at stealerships without the proper documentation?

So, to know what that one lonely relay is, I would have to trace wires and decode colors, to arrive at a best guess of what that might be? That's insane.

I had replaced that single relay in the picture a while back with the EFI relay, thinking that was it, as I didn't have the service manual yet... Now I guess it's a toss up... Who knows what relay I replaced! This motorcycle is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you'll get next time you open one!

On a different note, does anyone know if it is possible do remove only the rectifier/regulator from the alternator assembly? I'd like to replace it with a MOSFET regulator. I know this is straight forward on the 955i, but on this bike, the regulator seems to be built into the alternator. See pic

[haroldo_psf]

To complement my question on the post above, in the parts diagram attached here, number 14 is the regulator assembly, so apparently it can be disassembled, but I don't see any wires connecting it to the stator. Does anyone know how it works?

Also, what is that single small gage wire on that connector on the regulator? it can be seen in the picture on the previous post,  to the left of that main post that goes to the battery positive.

[walker]

probably a direct connector from the regulator to the winding / stator. Don't have wires to worry about failing. I would just leave it be if it's getting enough voltage to the battery. Maybe check the connector at the alternator there and see if it needs to be cleaned perhaps, but other than that - after all the work you've done, it would suck to go too far and mess up something by changing the design where good enough might just be, well, good enough!

Also - with all the other things wrong, it's possible that intermittent driving since the last battery, and even bad electrics could have contributed to shorter battery life. Clean and reconnect any connectors to the alternator, then check the output voltage (there should be a section in the service manual about that).

I'll check the haynes manual when I get home for that bike, see where the relays might live.

[haroldo_psf]

probably a direct connector from the regulator to the winding / stator. Don't have wires to worry about failing. I would just leave it be if it's getting enough voltage to the battery. Maybe check the connector at the alternator there and see if it needs to be cleaned perhaps, but other than that - after all the work you've done, it would suck to go too far and mess up something by changing the design where good enough might just be, well, good enough!

Also - with all the other things wrong, it's possible that intermittent driving since the last battery, and even bad electrics could have contributed to shorter battery life. Clean and reconnect any connectors to the alternator, then check the output voltage (there should be a section in the service manual about that).

I'll check the haynes manual when I get home for that bike, see where the relays might live.

Thanks Walker. I was leaning towards this (leaving it alone), now you're convinced me.

But your last paragraph is interesting. Every motorcycle I've owned has a section in the service manual that describes how to check the integrity of the electrical system. It will say "At 1500 rpm there should be voltage reading such and such at the battery, at 3000 rpm it should be this, at 3500 it should be that, etc etc etc". Some manuals even specify resistance values for the stator terminals.

The 885i manual has NOTHING. Not one single word on the entire chapter 16 (Electrical) about checking the electrical system, not one mention of any specification of voltage readings anywhere, nothing. The more I look into this manual and Triumph documentation practices for this motorycle, the more it seems like a bunch of clowns put this together and tried to document it. How do service techs go about troubleshooting this thing?

[walker]

well, I think they juggle balls, use confetti filled balloons, and then 40 of them pack inside a very small car then all get back out again.....

I don't recall the haynes being much better, but I'll check. The other thing I have noticed about the service manual - it seems some of the items you need are in other sections, sort of buried in the text. I was looking for the torque values for something the other day, and found it, not in the illustration, but buried in the text of another text section. Annoying when you are in a hurry.

I like my little alternator.... it rocks!

[haroldo_psf]

If when I get home and test the bike with the new battery the electrical issue goes away, I will also LOVE my little alternator, which, by the way, is not that little when you compare its 480W to the punie 350W that the 955i and roadies put out! HA! :)

[walker]

the alternator DOES rock!

I just checked the haynes manual, and it even has a picture showing 3 relays... haha! Mine only has the one.

Ok - so the deal is.... if you have a VIN after 89737, the fan and fuel pump are wired into a circuit that does not use a relay.

In the triumph service manual, look at the two different wiring diagrams in the back. The first one is the type with relays, the other one isn't. At the top of the diagram - in the first one (with relays) - #42 is your fuel pump, and it shares a relay with the 3 coil packs.... the relay is marked #38. The fan is #46 and uses relay marked #47.

Now, in the MORE AWESOME wiring diagram... (page 16.27) - you have the fuel pump ( 48 ), coming out of fuse #5, which is attached to the ignition switch (on the other side the circuit goes right into the ECM.... and if the alarm is connected, it looks like the circuit can be controlled there as well (ground?).

The fan is connected to fuse #7, and that traces back to relay #70, which also supplies your ignition coils, injectors, and an oxygen sensor (if you have one).... and there is one trace that goes directly into the ECM from that relay.... all of that from relay #70 and fuse #6.

I suspect that the large relay is for the injectors, the coil packs, the ECM, and the oxygen sensor.... then, the ECM directly powers the fuel pump as well.

so, you have one relay, it's for a lot of stuff.

[cosmo]

unless you spring for big buck batteries .2 years is pretty good for a tigger battery .....I run walmart batteries in my tiggers and generally get 2 years out of them .
and FYI the batteries that came in my steamers when they were new only lasted 2 years .

My late Girly is on the original battery, making it four years old. Still starts every day. And it better, I don't HAVE alternative transport (no car)

Cosmo

[haroldo_psf]

Couple of questios:

1) So, when I had just got the bike, I had bought an EFI relay, and because I didn't know any better, I thought the lonely relay under the seat was the EFI relay, so I replaced it with a new one. Now it's clear that that was not the EFI relay, but the ECU relay. Are all three relays physicaly the same (fans, EFI, ECU)? Basically, I bought an EFI relay from the dealer, and put it in place of the ECU relay. I wonder if its OK?

2) Last night I went home, installed the new battery (expensive Yuasa YTX16BS 7 Amp hour). That's what I had in there before.

I didn't notice much difference running the bike, other than the fans ran for about 7 minutes and then it stalled where before with the old battery I saw it stalling immediatelly after fans came on, so either its a matter of chance, or I made it a little better. Either way, I am not worrying about it anymore. Whatever it is, the engine runs very strong, it idles smooth and steady, and after I replace the crankshaft sensor, I somehow got rid of a violent surging that happened at steady rpms in any gear, and would force me to use the clutch mid corner to avoid the jerking and possible loss of traction. It is now very smooth.

I connected a voltmeter to the battery last night after I took it for a ride.

Bike off -> 12.86V
Bike idling at 1200rpm ->13.5V
Bike idling and fans ON ->12.5V

The voltage at idling looks good to me, and it tells me my charging system is OK. It drops 1V when the fans come on.

Can anyone with who owns an 885i and a voltmeter run this test and post the results?