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Tiger Time => Tiger 800's (2010 - 2020 Tigers) => Topic started by: London_Phil on June 27, 2021, 03:09:10 PM

Title: Legs on Fire...
Post by: London_Phil on June 27, 2021, 03:09:10 PM
So Yesterday( Saturday) I was given a day pass, and decided to look at some Bikes, either a used Bonnie variant or RE Interceptor, and decided to pop to Triumph Brooklands to see some at The Triumph dealer... Bloody waste of time....They are sterile palaces to selling, imho 3 used bikes in the whole store...Then I thought, I know, I'll ride across London to E2 to Look at some Enfields at TTT motorcycles.
Well, you would have thought Covid was fully cured, soo many people, and I didn't know there was a march on, but anyway, the heat from the xc was insane... I have set the fan temp to 93 using Tigertool, but heck, so much heat....
I must be a liar, because my pantaloons felt like they were ablaze...( for the non English, its liar liar, pants on fire...)
Got to E2, couldn't park, and ended up riding home after 5 hrs in the saddle, and less than 60 miles....
Anybody ride an efi Bonnie? because the Tiger is not suited to the heat of the city, well it probably is, but I was not...
Title: Re: Legs on Fire...
Post by: Chris Canning on June 27, 2021, 05:26:59 PM
If I had to do any serious city riding, i'd Wheel my XT660X out, not only easy enough to look after and more than able to look after themselves performance wise, and they certainly do not get hot and bothered.
Title: Re: Legs on Fire...
Post by: Sin_Tiger on June 27, 2021, 05:33:51 PM
Quote from: London_Phil on June 27, 2021, 03:09:10 PM
...They are sterile palaces to selling, imho 3 used bikes in the whole store...

Couldn't agree more, might as well be in an Audi showroom  :icon_confused: When did Covid end, they haven't told us in the sticks   :nono

I never experienced that with the XC and I've been stuck in jams in the tropics many times  :icon_rolleyes: Could it be something else?

My Thruxton isn't a fair comparison but when it was stock I used it in Singapore traffic a fair bit and it was fine. I've ridden a few other Bonnies and they are fun if a little innocuous in stock trim, the T100 is the best in my opinion. It's hard to make a comparison without a fan kicking in or a temp gauge, although air / oil cooled they have two oil pumps, one for the gearbox and the other just for the motor. They're not the lightest of machines but you've owned a Steamer  :augie

I'm liking what I'm reading about the RE 650's.
Title: Re: Legs on Fire...
Post by: Nick Calne on June 27, 2021, 09:15:44 PM
The mistake is living in London. Move to the country and enjoy both speed and the cooling effect of the passing airstream.  :ImaPoser
Title: Re: Legs on Fire...
Post by: ghulst on June 27, 2021, 09:40:18 PM
I can partly relate to what you are saying, but how on earth could you be riding through London for FIVE hours? I once tried to get out of London on my Honda Transalp without a proper map or GPS on my phone and even then it took me less time to get out of the city. ;) (And I'm a Dutchie and don't live there.)

Anyway, joking aside, I have never experienced heat in the way you describe it. I have had warm legs on hot days, but not ablaze. Might be a good thing to check the radiators and fans over and check the coolant flow...
Title: Re: Legs on Fire...
Post by: London_Phil on June 27, 2021, 10:17:10 PM
Quote from: Nick Calne on June 27, 2021, 09:15:44 PM
The mistake is living in London. Move to the country and enjoy both speed and the cooling effect of the passing airstream.  :ImaPoser

Am looking, but prices up 20%..
Title: Re: Legs on Fire...
Post by: ghulst on June 27, 2021, 10:19:39 PM
But they are in London as well, aren't they?
Title: Re: Legs on Fire...
Post by: London_Phil on June 27, 2021, 10:20:33 PM
Quote from: ghulst on June 27, 2021, 09:40:18 PM
I can partly relate to what you are saying, but how on earth could you be riding through London for FIVE hours? I once tried to get out of London on my Honda Transalp without a proper map or GPS on my phone and even then it took me less time to get out of the city. ;) (And I'm a Dutchie and don't live there.)

Anyway, joking aside, I have never experienced heat in the way you describe it. I have had warm legs on hot days, but not ablaze. Might be a good thing to check the radiators and fans over and check the coolant flow...

there and back, as it were...West London-Surrey-Surrey East London-East London-West London...
Bike running perfectly, rad removed and cleaned when RR upgraded, fresh coolant, and all working fine...Suspect that fan is on for longer as switch point set at 93 from 103, which is standard, I think...
Title: Re: Legs on Fire...
Post by: London_Phil on June 27, 2021, 10:21:04 PM
Quote from: ghulst on June 27, 2021, 10:19:39 PM
But they are in London as well, aren't they?

Buying a second home....or at least trying.....
Title: Re: Legs on Fire...
Post by: Chris Canning on June 27, 2021, 10:59:08 PM
Blimey boys we really are stuck in a time warp...it's 2021.. all the show rooms are the same...it's only taken 70 years to get away from the oil and sawdust synario...
Title: Re: Legs on Fire...
Post by: London_Phil on June 27, 2021, 11:39:24 PM
Quote from: Chris Canning on June 27, 2021, 10:59:08 PM
Blimey boys we really are stuck in a time warp...it's 2021.. all the show rooms are the same...it's only taken 70 years to get away from the oil and sawdust synario...

you say that like its a good thing.......
Title: Re: Legs on Fire...
Post by: Chris Canning on June 28, 2021, 08:52:05 AM
To dam right I do....i've Had the majority of a life time being treated as a second class citizen because I ride a motorcycle...all i've heard over and over 'why are we not treated the same as a car buyer' with a clean and tidy show room, also i'd Point out just because I ride a bike..I'm not skint.

I've never seen any reason why I shouldn't Be treated as an equal and you lot want to go back to spit and saw dust..still riding riding in our waxed Barbour are we... ;)

Don't get me wrong of the 6 bikes I run, half were bought privately so commercial retail is not the Be all End all,..but it is nice walking into a clean tidy show room and being treated as member of the human race like everyone else, there's not a snowballs chance in hell of me being dragged back to the stone age.

Don't get me wrong...i've Two mates who run a very successful motorcycle repair business out of not much more than a garden shed but at least now as modern day bikers we have a choice.
Title: Re: Legs on Fire...
Post by: ghulst on June 28, 2021, 09:12:33 AM
In that way, I do agree Chris. It is nice to end up in a showroom where things are tidy and a customer gets properly treated. However, I do like those showrooms to be full of bikes, both new and used. After all, just like when you are buying a car, it is good to have a choice. So, yes, nice clean showrooms, but also yes to having more than 3 bikes in the room. ;)
Title: Re: Legs on Fire...
Post by: Sin_Tiger on June 28, 2021, 12:12:59 PM
I agree as well Chris, things have moved on, thankfully in most cases, however, as motorcyclists you generally have a better knowledge of what you're buying and expect a similar level of understanding from sales people.

What I dislike and I suspect this may be what Phil is alluding to, without putting words into his mouth, the attitude of the sales people in many places is such that I personally often feel like I have ATM stamped on my forehead when I'm approached and often the immediate thrust of discussion is about financing before any talk of bikes commences. I felt the same was true in the car sales showrooms last time we bought a car.

I came into the store to consider a motorcycle not a "lifestyle" and I have money in my pocket, I do not wish to discuss monthly repayments, how a PCP arrangement will work for me nor what my credit rating is. I suspect it's a generational thing as much as anything else and we have to adjust our expectations accordingly  ;)
Title: Re: Legs on Fire...
Post by: London_Phil on June 28, 2021, 02:53:23 PM
I suppose its all about perspective...
Anyway back to the 800's and about my flaming troosers.... ( Donald.....)
Am I right in thinking gen 2's had a bigger radiator, and later ones (900?) have a split Rad to angle the nut roast out the side, as it were...or knee roast as more accurate...
Title: Re: Legs on Fire...
Post by: Chris Canning on June 28, 2021, 05:49:17 PM
Quote from: Sin_Tiger on June 28, 2021, 12:12:59 PM
I agree as well Chris, things have moved on, thankfully in most cases, however, as motorcyclists you generally have a better knowledge of what you're buying and expect a similar level of understanding from sales people.

What I dislike and I suspect this may be what Phil is alluding to, without putting words into his mouth, the attitude of the sales people in many places is such that I personally often feel like I have ATM stamped on my forehead when I'm approached and often the immediate thrust of discussion is about financing before any talk of bikes commences. I felt the same was true in the car sales showrooms last time we bought a car.

I came into the store to consider a motorcycle not a "lifestyle" and I have money in my pocket, I do not wish to discuss monthly repayments, how a PCP arrangement will work for me nor what my credit rating is. I suspect it's a generational thing as much as anything else and we have to adjust our expectations accordingly  ;)

Assuming your average biker knows anything about bikes is a major mistake...having worked for a UK importer and suffered....dealing with the public...90% you wouldn't trust to blow your tyres up never mind know how their bike worked, nearly every conversation would be the same and the quickest way to end it...was talk about suspension...mention preload/compression/rebound I could guarantee they'd be gone inside 25 seconds....the other 10% were well clued up i'm Glad to say.

Have to say my experience of dealing with Euro manufactures or should I say dealers has been very good, having said that I travel 50 miles to my preferred KTM dealer as opposed to the one just around the corner.
Title: Re: Legs on Fire...
Post by: London_Phil on June 28, 2021, 06:09:54 PM
So Anyway......
Title: Re: Legs on Fire...
Post by: Sin_Tiger on June 28, 2021, 09:44:20 PM
Quote from: London_Phil on June 28, 2021, 06:09:54 PM
So Anyway......

Aside from reflective tape on the inside leg of your jeans I'm out of ideas mate, haven't kept up with the latest Tigers, Ivor might be the man to weigh in on that.
Title: Re: Legs on Fire...
Post by: Chris Canning on June 28, 2021, 11:54:54 PM
I confess to having a liking for an XE Scrambler but sadly i've Run out of space  ;)
Title: Re: Legs on Fire...
Post by: Bixxer Bob on July 02, 2021, 08:00:52 AM
Quote from: Chris Canning on June 28, 2021, 05:49:17 PM
Assuming your average biker knows anything about bikes is a major mistake...having worked for a UK importer and suffered....dealing with the public...90% you wouldn't trust to blow your tyres up never mind know how their bike worked, nearly every conversation would be the same and the quickest way to end it...was talk about suspension...mention preload/compression/rebound I could guarantee they'd be gone inside 25 seconds....the other 10% were well clued up i'm Glad to say.

Have to say my experience of dealing with Euro manufactures or should I say dealers has been very good, having said that I travel 50 miles to my preferred KTM dealer as opposed to the one just around the corner.

I'd include most of the dealer's spanner monkeys in that statement Chris.  You can get a bike serviced at the dealer for around 100 quid an hour.  You can get it repaired if it goes wrong as long as the laptop can tell them what to change. However, it can be running like a dog but if the laptop says it's fine you're on your own. 

Two examples.  My Explorer.  It took a year of hawking it round the dealer, then a renowned bike repairer, a vehicle electronics expert, and even the great Clive Woods.  In the end, I fixed it myself.  Just this las week, a friend's 2 yr old Speed Triple died.  Completely dead with a blown 30amp fuse.  Dealer told him to buy better quality fuses.  No-one else would touch it.  He was advised to break it for spares.  I spent a morning pulling half the damn thing apart to eventually find where the charge lead from the rectifier to the battery had rubbed through against the frame.  All it cost to fix was 6 inches of insulation tape and a tie wrap.


Title: Re: Legs on Fire...
Post by: mat-tiger1 on August 13, 2021, 08:26:15 AM
Quote from: Sin_Tiger on June 28, 2021, 09:44:20 PM
Aside from reflective tape on the inside leg of your jeans I'm out of ideas mate, haven't kept up with the latest Tigers, Ivor might be the man to weigh in on that.

I must admit that i've not suffered from this myself Phil but other owners (usually those in warmer climates) have encountered "crotch boil" (which can also be an issue for some on the newer 900's.)

The solution they say is to fit either a plastic deflector blade in the original cowling in order to deflect the heat up, and away from the rider's legs or there also appears to be aftermarket suppliers of replacement cowls that do the same job.

https://dragontt.com/producto/deflectores_tiger_800_xr__1/ or https://dragontt.com/producto/deflectores-tiger-800d/

Hope this helps!  :thumbsup
Title: Re: Legs on Fire...
Post by: mat-tiger1 on August 13, 2021, 08:47:44 AM
Following some investigation on the subject, i've also seen this mod used to deflect the heat away from the rider without the need for cowling adjustments.  :thumbsup

https://www.tiger800.co.uk/index.php/topic,27567.0.html
Title: Re: Legs on Fire...
Post by: London_Phil on August 14, 2021, 10:00:56 AM
Interesting stuff, thank you. I contacted the manufacturers of the replacement side pieces, and tey do a kit for Gen 1 Tigers, but they will likely not fit behind the Heed crash bars. I will look at the other idea, but I do think the R/R heat needs to be taken into account, as they run hot anyway, and any reduced flow will potentially cause issue.
I have used TigerTool to reset the fan on  value from 103 to 93, and will see how that goes...Best option is to stay out of the city......
Title: Re: Legs on Fire...
Post by: ssevy on August 15, 2021, 12:21:25 AM
If your fan is kicking on at a lower temp it will be running more often, and so there will be more hot air blowing on your leg.
I would reset it to 103 and then duplicate the ride under similar conditions to see if this is the cause.


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Title: Re: Legs on Fire...
Post by: London_Phil on August 15, 2021, 09:31:49 AM
Hi ssevy

I did it after the hot leg episode, as I read its a common thing to do.
Realistically there is nothing wrong with the bike, the Gen 1's are especially known for generating a lot of heat, and riding in London during a heatwave was never going to be comfortable on such a bike.
The fact that the later models had heat mitigation, and either the last gen or/and the 900 have split or curved Rads to direct heat out the sides, rather than directly over the rider suggests it was a design weakness, but not an actual fault with my bike.
Going to move to the country, that will fix it......
Title: Re: Legs on Fire...
Post by: ssevy on August 15, 2021, 06:05:23 PM
Ah, sorry, missed that part. Maybe get some of those shiny silver pants they wear in a foundry?
Think of the conspicuity!


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Title: Re: Legs on Fire...
Post by: London_Phil on August 15, 2021, 08:25:57 PM
All the rage in Hoxton..Hipsters be hipstering....
Title: Re: Legs on Fire...
Post by: ghulst on August 23, 2021, 04:23:08 PM
Quote from: London_Phil on August 15, 2021, 09:31:49 AM
either the last gen or/and the 900 have split or curved Rads to direct heat out the sides, rather than directly over the rider
I see a possibility for a project here...
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