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Tiger Time => Tiger 900 and Tiger 850 (2020 - Now Tigers) => Topic started by: Ossian on January 04, 2020, 10:42:06 PM

Title: The new Tiger 900 engine
Post by: Ossian on January 04, 2020, 10:42:06 PM
The new 888cc Tiger 900 is described as having a 'T' plane crank.
https://www.triumphmotorcycles.co.uk/motorcycles/adventure/tiger-900/reasons-to-ride
Can anybody explain this and tell us why it would be better than an even firing 120 deg triple ?
Title: Re: The new Tiger 900 engine
Post by: Chris Canning on January 05, 2020, 06:48:16 PM
Well Yamaha have been the first to seriously dip their toe in the water with their R1,instead of going the electrically software route for traction they have altered the firing order by changing the crank shaft the same as Yamaha and hence the firing order.

What you are seeing is Triumph starting to reap the benefits of contacts they have made with running engines in Moto2,but straight forward it might not be,if your not a follower of Moto GP Yamaha have struggle extracting topend power,something that has past all but unnoticed when Ducati went from their classic 1098/1198 long stroke cam belt motor to the Panigali big piston short stroke camchain it has been a bumpy ride in more ways the one.

But Triumphs 765 and the new 900 shows that they are really starting to make an effort and we now live in a world of short stroke/big bore and other variations.
Title: Re: The new Tiger 900 engine
Post by: Ossian on January 06, 2020, 12:53:13 AM
Hi Chris. The use of cross plane and flat plane cranks has a logic in engines with even numbers of cylinders. Usually to do with firing order or exhaust design requirements, but I don't understand the logic behind using a crank like this in a 3 cylinder engine. With a 'T' crank as Triumph calls it, you seem to have a 180 degree twin with an extra cylinder attached. Why ?
My only guess is that Triumph have considered and balanced each cylinder individually and then using this design created an engine such that firing is timed to give a 'Big Bang' effect for better traction ? This wouldn't be possible with a 120 degree design.
Title: Re: The new Tiger 900 engine
Post by: Chris Canning on January 06, 2020, 06:48:41 PM
What has passed a lot of folk by is Ducati's transition from 1198 to Panigali in other words long stroke bottom end grunt with cam belt to big piston short stroke camchain it wasn't/hasn't been straight forward,I know guys who went that way and changed back.

When it comes to the Multistrada Ducati have bypassed the Pani motor and are going V4,my long winded reply is just another way of saying these things have to be tried will it work in the long run?? Who knows,but the one thing you can be sure of the game is moving on with other manufacturers and Triumph have to come up with solutions.

Title: Re: The new Tiger 900 engine
Post by: blacktiger on February 04, 2021, 06:32:39 PM
To answer the original question....the simple answer is the T plane crank gives the crank a longer rest between the firing of the cylinders. It used to be called a "Big Bang" engine when it was first introduced in two stroke 500 GPs. Its reason is the let the tyre calm down and grip the road/track again during the period when nothing is firing. The screamer engines were just spinning up the tyre and wearing them out whilst not pushing the bike forward.
So, on the Tiger900 it should give more grip on slippery dirt roads.
Title: Re: The new Tiger 900 engine
Post by: Chris Canning on February 04, 2021, 09:40:19 PM
Looking at what Triumph launched the other day...just a matter of what other models that motor is going to be put.
Title: Re: The new Tiger 900 engine
Post by: blacktiger on February 05, 2021, 12:02:04 AM
Quote from: Chris Canning on February 04, 2021, 09:40:19 PM
Looking at what Triumph launched the other day...just a matter of what other models that motor is going to be put.

Won't go in anything else. I mean, did they use the 800 in anything else? Even though there was perhaps a market for an 800sprint type thing.
Title: Re: The new Tiger 900 engine
Post by: Chris Canning on February 05, 2021, 05:36:57 PM
No way Triumph are going to the trouble of building that new 1200 motor for just one model, just a case of if they have balls to hold their corporate hands up about some of the crap decisions they made in recent years,and go the same route..as in successfully..of using the same motor in several bikes.
Title: Re: The new Tiger 900 engine
Post by: blacktiger on February 06, 2021, 01:32:56 PM
Quote from: Chris Canning on February 05, 2021, 05:36:57 PM
No way Triumph are going to the trouble of building that new 1200 motor for just one model, just a case of if they have balls to hold their corporate hands up about some of the crap decisions they made in recent years,and go the same route..as in successfully..of using the same motor in several bikes.

The 1200 is a different proposition to the 900. It's a flagship engine. Yes, I can see it in a "Sprint" as well. Not in a tourer though as that would require shaft drive. Tiger1200? I think not as that's better with the shaft drive. Thing is, Triumph don't have a huge model line up for the triples. So maybe they need to start thinking out of their comfort range.
Title: Re: The new Tiger 900 engine
Post by: Chris Canning on February 06, 2021, 03:30:57 PM
Blimey don't start me off with what Triumph have done regarding the Tiger, they went from the 955 too the 1050 and just sat on their corporate hands and did zilch, and then.......... turned up with the god awful shaft driven 1200 :rrr when some muppet at the company had ideas of turning themselves into an offshoot of BMW.

Both my X/R and KTM GT tour very nicely than you very much and not a shaft drive to be seen, yes I do have bikes with such but a necessity they ain't, when you can put new chain and sprockets on a bike for less than 200 quid.

That new 170hp triple will sit very nicely in a modern day Tiger, welcome to the 21st century Triumph always knew Moto2 would drag you there in the end  :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: The new Tiger 900 engine
Post by: ghulst on February 07, 2021, 12:40:38 PM
Quote from: blacktiger on February 05, 2021, 12:02:04 AM
Won't go in anything else. I mean, did they use the 800 in anything else? Even though there was perhaps a market for an 800sprint type thing.


That really depends though. A Speed Triple with a 900 could be a nice offering. Or a Scrambler 900... Or a Trident. It could even be fun to stick one in a Thruxton. ;) Back to the modular Triumph days.

Title: Re: The new Tiger 900 engine
Post by: blacktiger on February 07, 2021, 12:56:05 PM
Quote from: ghulst on February 07, 2021, 12:40:38 PM

That really depends though. A Speed Triple with a 900 could be a nice offering. Or a Scrambler 900... Or a Trident. It could even be fun to stick one in a Thruxton. ;) Back to the modular Triumph days.

Scramblers and Thruxtons are already twins and will stay so. I agree about the Trident but they've gone with the 660 for now. Would  a 900 version sell? Not many. You're then creeping into Street/Speed Triple territory.
Title: Re: The new Tiger 900 engine
Post by: Sin_Tiger on February 07, 2021, 08:42:36 PM
Lightweight Tiger 660? I did see a video a few years ago of someone who'd put longer forks and rejigged the rear suspension on a gen1 Street Triple, actually looked OK and seemed to work in the rough but ally frame  :augie
Title: Re: The new Tiger 900 engine
Post by: ghulst on February 07, 2021, 08:48:43 PM
I would not be surprised by a Tiger 660 (or a Scrambler 660 or 900). Or even a new version of the 660 that ends up around 400 for the Asian markets...
Title: Re: The new Tiger 900 engine
Post by: blacktiger on February 23, 2021, 01:44:08 PM
Quote from: ghulst on February 07, 2021, 08:48:43 PM
I would not be surprised by a Tiger 660 (or a Scrambler 660 or 900). Or even a new version of the 660 that ends up around 400 for the Asian markets...

You won't find a triple in a "Scrambler". Any dirt capable Triumph with a triple in it will be a Tiger. Two distinct and separate model lines. I can't see a problem with a Tiger660 though. Would make a good entry level Tiger.
Title: Re: The new Tiger 900 engine
Post by: Sin_Tiger on February 24, 2021, 01:37:58 PM
 :iagree

I think they are missing out massively in the Asian markets, a 400 makes total sense. Never did hear what the end story of the Indian built 250 project was.
Title: Re: The new Tiger 900 engine
Post by: Bixxer Bob on February 25, 2021, 11:36:19 PM
The Chinese have made a scaled down rip off of the AT which will appeal to a lot of them...

https://www.rideapart.com/news/489876/suspiciously-familiar-dahaidao-500-gs-adv/
Title: Re: The new Tiger 900 engine
Post by: Timbox2 on February 26, 2021, 08:35:41 AM
Quote from: Bixxer Bob on February 25, 2021, 11:36:19 PM
The Chinese have made a scaled down rip off of the AT which will appeal to a lot of them...

https://www.rideapart.com/news/489876/suspiciously-familiar-dahaidao-500-gs-adv/

39 litres fuel capacity!!! 
Title: Re: The new Tiger 900 engine
Post by: ghulst on February 26, 2021, 02:54:27 PM
Quote from: Timbox2 on February 26, 2021, 08:35:41 AM
39 litres fuel capacity!!!


For a range of 1000(!!!) kilometers.  :icon_eek: I don't know about anyone here, but I will have needed a bath room break before I empty that tank...
Title: Re: The new Tiger 900 engine
Post by: blacktiger on February 26, 2021, 06:06:36 PM
Quote from: ghulst on February 26, 2021, 02:54:27 PM

For a range of 1000(!!!) kilometers.  :icon_eek: I don't know about anyone here, but I will have needed a bath room break before I empty that tank...

It must have a seat like this as well.
Title: Re: The new Tiger 900 engine
Post by: Sin_Tiger on February 26, 2021, 10:35:36 PM
That looks very interesting, any of the big names could claim they've been ripped off, the only question would be who was ripped off first  :mut

I have to admit to looking at both the Benelli and CF Moto 1200 tourers, I think Triumph really shot themselves in the foot there (I'd like to shoot mine  :icon_rolleyes:) I don't care what the sales figures told them.
Title: Re: The new Tiger 900 engine
Post by: Bixxer Bob on February 27, 2021, 11:36:13 AM
The Benelli is heavy and underpowered.  Nice to look at but you'd have a leisurely ride.

The CF Moto 1200, I'm not sure if it's coming to the UK, I thought it was primarily for Police forces in the Asian market.  The CF Moto 650 adventure is a nice bike though.  A couple of places local to me sell them.  Light, well made and enough power, 60bhp,  to be useful.


https://www.cfmoto.co.uk/product-page/650mt
Title: Re: The new Tiger 900 engine
Post by: Sin_Tiger on February 27, 2021, 09:41:02 PM
The 650 is the licensed ER6 engine, I seriously looked at the TR but there don't come up often and sell for a lot more than you'd think.

Anyway, what is going on with this 850 Sport  :icon_scratch:
Title: Re: The new Tiger 900 engine
Post by: blacktiger on February 28, 2021, 11:03:12 AM
Quote from: Sin_Tiger on February 26, 2021, 10:35:36 PM
That looks very interesting, any of the big names could claim they've been ripped off, the only question would be who was ripped off first  :mut

I have to admit to looking at both the Benelli and CF Moto 1200 tourers, I think Triumph really shot themselves in the foot there (I'd like to shoot mine  :icon_rolleyes:) I don't care what the sales figures told them.

Aprilia or Ducati are good options if you want a 1200 AdvTourer.
Title: Re: The new Tiger 900 engine
Post by: blacktiger on February 28, 2021, 11:07:12 AM
Quote from: Sin_Tiger on February 27, 2021, 09:41:02 PM
Anyway, what is going on with this 850 Sport  :icon_scratch:

God knows. It was widely slated on the Triumph FB feed when they announced it. i.e. How can they call it a "Sport" when it's a detuned 900 engine? And, it's not sufficiently cheaper than the 900s to make it appealing. And, if they wanted an entry level Tiger they could've put the new 660 engine in the 900 frame. And on it goes.......
Title: Re: The new Tiger 900 engine
Post by: Sin_Tiger on February 28, 2021, 12:11:15 PM
 :iagree confusing, I have no idea what they were thinking, just dilutes the model image in my opinion.
Title: Re: The new Tiger 900 engine
Post by: ghulst on March 01, 2021, 03:26:51 PM
Quote from: blacktiger on February 28, 2021, 11:03:12 AM
Aprilia or Ducati are good options if you want a 1200 AdvTourer.


Now you get me started. I am not planning on parting with my Tiger, but I saw this really nice Ducati 1260 Enduro...
Title: Re: The new Tiger 900 engine
Post by: blacktiger on March 01, 2021, 06:11:48 PM
Quote from: ghulst on March 01, 2021, 03:26:51 PM

Now you get me started. I am not planning on parting with my Tiger, but I saw this really nice Ducati 1260 Enduro...

I know a couple of people that ride with my local TOMCC group that have the 1200 Mutleys. They seem to like them. For me, I don't like the way they look. At all. And it's not a Triumph. And it's not a Tiger.
Title: Re: The new Tiger 900 engine
Post by: ghulst on March 02, 2021, 01:50:42 PM
LOL, those last things make sense. However, I love the looks of the 1260 Enduro more than the regular 1200. And it is pretty narrow between the legs. Still need to ride one though. ;)
Title: Re: The new Tiger 900 engine
Post by: Bixxer Bob on March 02, 2021, 02:04:55 PM
Before you consider Ducati, ask the dealer if you can see their recall directory.  The last 5 volumes should do.  You don't so much own a Duc as join their product development team.

I'm currently working on a on exhaust flap valve from a Multistrada.  It's cleverly designed to retain all the water and crap thrown up by the front wheel so that it seizes solid the week after the warranty runs out. Better still (for Ducati) it's welded to the catalytic converter, so you have to replace that as well.

Designed for the Italian summer, not a UK winter.
Title: Re: The new Tiger 900 engine
Post by: blacktiger on March 02, 2021, 02:22:27 PM
Quote from: Bixxer Bob on March 02, 2021, 02:04:55 PM
Before you consider Ducati, ask the dealer if you can see their recall directory.  The last 5 volumes should do.  You don't so much own a Duc as join their product development team.

Replace Duc with BMW and you have the same criticism.
Title: Re: The new Tiger 900 engine
Post by: ghulst on March 02, 2021, 02:59:13 PM
I think you can say that about a lot of brands. To be honest, I am never that worried about it. I have had a BMW with 0 problems, I have had two Honda's that I had to do quite a bit of work on. I had to work on the Tiger and my Ducati. Then again, my nineties Alfa has next to no rust.  ;)
Title: Re: The new Tiger 900 engine
Post by: Sin_Tiger on March 02, 2021, 04:30:37 PM
Quote from: ghulst on March 02, 2021, 02:59:13 PM
Then again, my nineties Alfa has next to no rust.  ;)

Must have been a rogue one that missed quality control  :mut
Title: Re: The new Tiger 900 engine
Post by: ghulst on March 02, 2021, 08:17:05 PM
Hahahaha, perhaps. Still, I am happy about it. A friend of mine was always teasing me with the fact that Alfa's would rust so bad. Then his (newer) Astra failed the MOT because it needed major welding. So, his was scrapped. Mine sailed through.
Title: Re: The new Tiger 900 engine
Post by: Giemelos on May 24, 2023, 12:42:08 PM
Hello because of all the discussion on this topic that is burning us very much , the engine of the 850 Sport is supposed to be more road and well but it is not 84 horses which are bad compared to the competition, the 900 GT and all its versions since it was first introduced was made for dirt use the T-Plane engine is shorter in filling in power could and better if the engineers had the Good Will but he was left to his own devices, and that is very unfair for only 94 horses and 87 newtometers. :icon_study:
A Radical upgrade from scratch!
We will not leave them in peace if our demands are not met.I want you to know this well because I myself took the initiative as a representative to send on behalf of the Greek Tiger Club and the Greek Triathlon Club together with the central delegation of Greece to send our demands and a comprehensive review of the specific issues I mentioned to the central administration in Hinckley.
We keep walking them and if they don't do anything about the issue we are determined to travel to the central delegation with a mass participation of thousands of Triumph riders from Greece and once there let them bring the army even but nothing scares us as they will be hordes of thousands of motorcyclists, they don't take words we will react like this.
They have managed to destroy the reputation of the new generation with the restrictions and unacceptable performance especially the Tiger 850&900 where many years back they made this iconic model and established this class and successful formula where it was copied by the Japanese rival where it sells like crazy all over the world.
Protesting all these years we put up with this policy from Triumph and we are no longer satisfied! :nono

Something must be done and immediately!
And for your part, react with us, it is not possible to stand there and watch them without anyone making any remarks.
All of us Triumph enthusiasts have been waiting for so many years for this vindication and recognition that the company's emblem deserves.
Title: Re: The new Tiger 900 engine
Post by: Giemelos on June 21, 2023, 06:40:56 PM
Because I see a complete indifference on your part we knew what was happening and reacted already we have been invited by the Central Administration of Triumph in England and we are invited to make an official visit and meet all together i.e. the Greek clubs Triumph & Tiger with all our presidents and executives of Triumph company in Headqurters.
This happy event is a good indication that after so much struggle that we made to finally be heard by all of our Greek staff on our part they have been rewarded.
There is no need for trouble but a way to conquer the acquis, and if they do not meet our expectations specifically the performance that is lacking in the present three-cylinder engine the 888cc but not the rest of the motorcycle, Triumph must put its best efforts and examine in detail and redesign in the company's Research Center.
We want your support and we are not your enemies but brothers who love the Tigers too much.
We do not take notice of you but warm entreaty, because we know that you also want something better on this motorcycle!
In any case, our secretariat, our presidencies and all members of Greece send you our warmest greetings!
We will travel and be away for several days and we will meet for several days in Hinckley where we have requested an official hearing from the Chief Executive of Triumph for a central meeting.
With full appreciation and my heart in your hand, I welcome the representative of the 2 Greek clubs.
Mr.Kostas Yemelos Athens-Piraeus Greece :icon_cool:
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