My daughter woke me with these dreaded words: "Hey Dad, there is a really strong gasoline smell in the garage". Having just ridden a beautiful and trouble free 330 miles the previous day, this was not something I was expecting to hear.
Suffice it to say the plastic welding on my petcock area is separating after about 2500 miles of use. I took the tank back to the body shop today, and they are going to contact their plastic welder supplier and see if there are other options. It could be the rods were not the correct plastic, as we guessed polyethylene based upon the Acerbis website. It could also need more heat to bond microscopically. The kid doing the job was very cautious not to over heat the job and mess up the paint.
Wait and see right now.
In years to come you will smile over the stories that can tell about your beloved motorcycle..... :icon_lol:
:icon_cry: :icon_cry: :icon_cry: :BangHead Is yours the metallic red or the plain red, I forget which is which?
I believe it is called pimento red. It is really bright (unlike its owner)
Quote from: ssevy on August 26, 2014, 12:08:17 AM
I believe it is called pimento red. It is really bright (unlike its owner)
Now, now. Be nice to yourself. Everybody knows that pimento red is the only colour worth having. :icon_lol:
Is it not easier to find one on ebay and respray to the right colour??
I am just concerned that with the known swelling from ethanol that I will just be buying someone else's headache. If I have to, I'll buy new. Since I paid $2500 for the bike, but was willing to go $3500 with accessories, I guess it is all a wash. This is my dream bike, and I have about $4000 total in it right now. Where else could I buy what I reallycwant for this kind of money?
2 red tanks on ebay uk., and a red tank cover, in case you get a different colour... (correct spelling)... tank ..., and have to hide your shame!!!
Might be worth having a spare?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRIUMPH-TIGER-900-BAGSTER-BAGLUX-TANK-COVER-TC1211-/231312613058?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item35db4e5ec2
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRIUMPH-TIGER-900-885-steamer-Petrol-Fuel-tank-Mettalic-Red-scuff-/321485217127?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item4ada031d67
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRIUMPH-TIGER-900-885-steamer-Petrol-Fuel-tank-Mettalic-Red-/221523737354?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item3393d7fb0a
Couldn't agree more, steamers are great. I could have any bike I like, but I like the one I have.
In the 4 or 5 years of steamer ownership I've had, I have learned that having a spare everything is pretty much essential. Better spend £50 on a spare tank or whatever now than to lose some of the summer!
Worry about paint and finish in February whens it's snowing!
I have a spare tank or two in the loft that you borrow if you are really stuck!
I asked about the colour as I have one of each in the loft, no I don't share the loft with NickC but I do love my Steamers just the same. If you decide to go that route and don't have any luck finding one. National-Triumph are great suppliers and I'm sure they could work something out with shipping for you. Likewise if you get stuck, one of us will work something out to get you on the road again.
Thanks for your generous offers everyone! Shipping from the UK across the pond sounds like a pain, but maybe I am wrong? There are some pretty ugly ones stateside, but I will wait until I hear back from the body shop before I invest in a second tank. Seems to me the proper plastic welded at the proper temperature should be a permanent fix. The only thing that may be an issue is whether years of holding gasoline may have contaminated the actual plastic itself so that there will be no way to obtain a perfect weld? If that is the case, I still want to try my machined inner plate fix first, since the tank is essentially useless otherwise.
Will keep you posted.
Quote from: ssevy on August 27, 2014, 08:31:25 PM
I still want to try my machined inner plate fix first, since the tank is essentially useless otherwise.
Will keep you posted.
This is interesting. Please do.
Sooner or later one of us is going to get pissed off with spinning captive nuts and leaks and build an aluminium tank.
I recently spoke to a man who makes custom alloy tanks about making a copy in alloy. He just looked at me like I'd grown a second head :bug_eye
Quote from: Sin_Tiger on August 28, 2014, 12:45:06 AM
I recently spoke to a man who makes custom alloy tanks about making a copy in alloy. He just looked at me like I'd grown a second head :bug_eye
Now that would be really nice. A bit problematical fixing the fairing bits and bobs to it, perhaps, but it would solve the problem of expansion. At what price, however???
I'll bet that sooner rather than later there will be a 3D scanner and printer with the size capacity to duplicate our tanks or any other parts we'd like. My daughter just began college as an engineering major, and I told her I may have some work for her in the future. My first project will be scanning and producing transparent float bowls for our carbs, so that it will be easy to check float and needle action. Do a search on youtube for 3D printing, and you'll be surprised at what items are already possible.
Quote from: Sin_Tiger on August 28, 2014, 12:45:06 AM
I recently spoke to a man who makes custom alloy tanks about making a copy in alloy. He just looked at me like I'd grown a second head :bug_eye
Well that's about the average reaction to steamer ownership problems!! How do they make the super large dakar tanks for xr 650s etc, I wonder?
I'm off to the London 3d Print show in a week or so, and will be building a 3d printer over the winter, (pending approval from Finance dept :icon_wink: ),. Think it would need to be a big beast for a fuel tank...
I know there are industrial ones that work in Nylon, but not sure if its genuinely viable for a fuel tank.
After watching a UK bike show on the telly, they went to an alloy fabricator for custom tanks.
Wonder what the minimum order quantity would be for Ali tanks.mmmmm
Quote from: London_Phil on August 28, 2014, 10:48:08 AM
Wonder what the minimum order quantity would be for Ali tanks.mmmmm
+1
Quote from: London_Phil on August 28, 2014, 10:48:08 AM
I'm off to the London 3d Print show in a week or so, and will be building a 3d printer over the winter, (pending approval from Finance dept :icon_wink: ),. Think it would need to be a big beast for a fuel tank...
I know there are industrial ones that work in Nylon, but not sure if its genuinely viable for a fuel tank.
After watching a UK bike show on the telly, they went to an alloy fabricator for custom tanks.
Wonder what the minimum order quantity would be for Ali tanks.mmmmm
built a 3d printer last year myself (prusa v2) satisfying to make, esp when youve even built the pcb as well
All the plastics done in polished alloy..bet that would look nice :icon_smile:
Quote from: threepot on August 28, 2014, 07:58:27 PM
All the plastics done in polished alloy..bet that would look nice :icon_smile:
+1
Not wanting to start a discussion of tank repairs, only a personal experience. But, I used Marine JB Weld (which is petroleum resistant, I know it didn't say petroleum proof), on a tank last year where the previous owner had a body shop use a plastic compound that failed. It was one of the captive nuts that I did not replace. I made something to insert into the tank with a fine stainless wire so the expoxy would go inner area of the tank. I did the repair in three intervals letting each completly setup, trying to use the least amound of expoxy to avoid any voids. Then I just expoxyed the head of the bolt to the outside of the faring, I know kinda hokey, but it really worked. So far so good. Like most of you, I didn't have many good choices and said if it doesn't work, I am out very little, and since it did, great.
Quote from: threepot on August 28, 2014, 07:58:27 PM
All the plastics done in polished alloy..bet that would look nice :icon_smile:
I suppose one would have to get in touch with one of those Indian tank makers who seem to proliferate on eBay, send them a tank to copy, and then get a quote for x number of tanks...... :augie
Update:
I just got my tank back from the auto body shop where they welded it using nylon rod this time. The polyethylene used on the first attempt failed after 2000 miles, so I hope this is a permanent solution. I am also going to seal the inside with a Caswell kit, which should isolate the new material used in the repair from the fuel permanently.
Aluminium tanks, try the tankshop.com. I have not tried any myself, but they look very good for the money.
http://www.thetankshop.com
My earlier comments regarding aluminium tanks, John Williams of Tankshop was the man I had been speaking to.
Apart from which he is extremely busy, it's almost a year since I ordered a custom tank for my Thruxton.
Current waiting time 40 weeks according to the website.
Just for s's and g's I have emailed a selection of those Indian (sub-continent) tank makers to see what their response would be to making an alloy tank for a Steamer.
Here is the first answer:
Dear buyer, Thank you for showing interest in our product.The minimum order quantity is "1 Unit" ,We also make custom tank according to customer requirement.If you want new design of tank for your motorcycles then you are at right place.Please feel free to contact with us at any timeKind Regards,Vintage Motors Zone
And another reply:
Hello, No problem, we can make even a single one. But that would be a bit expensive. Five or more would make lot of difference. Warm regards, Yamini Ahua
"What do you have in your hand baggage Sir?"
:blah
"I see. And why are you taking a tank of Steam to Bangalore :icon_scratch:" :ImaPoser
I like the idea of taking a chance on the Chinese; a kind of adventure that might turn out well but isn't the end of the world if it doesn't and you could be pleasantly surprised :icon_mrgreen:
Quote from: Sin_Tiger on October 03, 2014, 09:46:55 PM
"What do you have in your hand baggage Sir?"
:blah
"I see. And why are you taking a tank of Steam to Bangalore :icon_scratch:"
:ImaPoser indeed! But seriously, does anyone have an old tank that could be sent to a manufacturer in India/Far East, to use as a copy??? I'd be happy to contribute to the postage, to avoid the aforementioned customs debacle.
The only issue with a metal reproduction that I see is the ability to attach the side panels...???
I have a few tanks
What kinda cost are they talking about per unit?
A cautionary tale doing that without the bike to mount it on.
In the 50's my father took a steam ship into Singapore with boiler tubes that had sagged from overheating. The Engineering Superintendent in true old arrogant colonial style showed the boiler makers the tube stack and said "you makee new ones same same OK". After refilling and flashing up the boiler to test it the water carry over problems were still there and a post mortem ensued. The boiler maker was called and the inspection revealed sagged tubes. "your tubes no good :blah" to which the reply was "my tubes velly good copy sama sama like you say but this no good, I make straight ones much cheaper for you, you wan?" :BangHead
After so many experiencing jelly mould tanks doing a Dali while they are off the bike, the chances of getting one back that fits is slim. Not saying they couldn't do it, I have seen very nice work in India (as common as a bland curry mind you) but I think I'd rather ride there and watch it being done :icon_mrgreen:
Do we have linear measurement data for the distance between front and rear tank mounts on the frame. I'm assuming that the major issue is with the tanks getting longer and mounts no longer align.
I know the rear mount bolts to the frame, but I bet all ours are within a few mill of each other.
Anyone good with Google sketch up??
I can do sketch quite well but capturing the tanks shape would take a very long time given the accuracy required. What we need is a 3d scanner of some sort that can output to a programme like sketchup or autocad.
The shape is complex and the number of fastenings is more than usual.
What manufacturers of tanks would do with the information is an interesting question! My guess is ignore it!
I installed the Caswell Tank sealing kit tonight. You really need 70 degrees or more, but I think our 70 degree days are over until next May, so I did it at 65 degrees instead, which made the mix a bit thicker. Looking inside the filler hole it looks like I got good coverage, and I made sure and got a good solid coating over the petcock area. I trimmed a cork and then wrapped it with Teflon tape and threaded it into the petcock plate for the Pingel and it worked really well as a plug which was then easily removed.
To get the drying jump started I put the tank in the back of my van with the heater on high and left it in there idling for a few hours. Now I've brought it into my basement, where I have the exhaust vent of my dehumidifier blowing into the area of the filler hole. All of the epoxy that I can reach is good and hard and smooth, so I think it will work well.
One concern I had was the tank expanding and contracting in the sun, but the plastic funnel I used for my last Caswell job has a layer of the epoxy covering the inside of it, and I can flex that plastic quite a bit with no cracking or other detrimental results, so I think this one is going to be a winner.
Now I am going to let it dry for a good three days in case there are any thick spots in the finish, and then bolt her back on and see how it goes. The sealer should keep the fuel isolated from the plastic welding job, so I am optimistic that this may be a permanent fix.
Re-installed the tank today, filled it with gas and took it for a short ride. No leaking or other issues, and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this saga is over. Only time and miles will tell if it is truly permanent, but I think the Caswell kit will help keep the fuel and the plastic separated.
I also noticed while reattaching the side panels that the combination of the body shop's need to keep the tank warm and dry during prep and curing, together with my 5 days of warm dehumidified air must have shrunk the tank back into a more original shape, as everything lined up much better, and the bolts threaded right in without having to tweak on the panels. Maybe this might be a fix for those of you with tanks that have swelled from ethanol?
Quote from: ssevy on October 16, 2014, 05:46:08 AM
Maybe this might be a fix for those of you with tanks that have swelled from ethanol?
Good to know. Might be worth a try over the long winter months hereabouts to put the (empty) tank somewhere warm and dry.
Rode 585 miles during 14 hours in the saddle yesterday. No leaks yet. I'm hoping the saga of the leaking tank is over.
Looking good so far, can start breathing again :thumbsup
Update:
I put my Tiger back into winter storage a few weeks ago in my mother-in-law's drive in basement. When I was up there for Xmas last weekend, I noticed a strong gasoline smell from the Tiger. No fuel dripping underneath, but definitely some raw gas sweating near the petcock. I proceeded to drain the fuel out of the tank, and then checked the two bolts that mount the adapter plate. I was able to tighten each of them about 3/4 of a turn, so fingers crossed this was the issue and not a failing plastic weld! I was very cautious when I first tightened this down, as I don't want to loosen those captive nuts. Maybe a bit of gasket compression involved? I did use blue hylomar as my gasket cement, so hopefully this snugging of the bolts will be the end of it.
:bug_eye not the smell you want to be greeted with when you've popped down for a sly smoke :grnb h hope it settles OK and its not a consequence of that Devil's broth that is ethanol :icon_evil:
Here's hoping for a hydrocarbon vapour free New Year :friday
Yeah, especially since the wood stove is nearby😳
Thanks Sin!
Quote from: ssevy on December 31, 2016, 08:56:53 PM
Yeah, especially since the wood stove is nearby😳
Thanks Sin!
:rfl
A friend went to starthis Steamer after being laid up for a couple of months. It wouldn't start so he got the local dealer (who is trustworthy) to pick it up. Turns out it had roughly three pints of petrol in the crankcase........ (as well as the oil. Obviously.)
Bob,another benefit of fitting a crank breather? I've done mine.
Quote from: threepot on January 03, 2017, 03:11:23 PM
Bob,another benefit of fitting a crank breather? I've done mine.
Just curious: what would be the benefit?
Quote from: nickjtc on January 03, 2017, 05:30:51 PM
Just curious: what would be the benefit?
No risk of petrol getting into engine,as no need for breather pipe from Airbox. Also,gasses produced in the engine are apparently toxic,and corrosive? And are better out,rather than re circulated?
I don't know how it got there to be honest TP, and can't readily think of how three pints would find it's way down even over a few weeks.
Quote from: threepot on January 03, 2017, 03:11:23 PM
........fitting a crank breather? I've done mine.
I would like some more info about this if you don't mind.
I bought a motorcycle crank breather on eBay. Disconnect the breather pipe from the bottom front of the airbox,and plug it. Then cut the pipe a few inches above the clutch cover. I used a small length of copper pipe to connect the filter to the pipe. I'll post a photo tomorrow.
Disconnected it earlier. Just a slight deposit of white sludge,and a small amount of water? Breather was still clear.
I'm guessing there wasn't enough space to fit it directly onto the clutch cover spigot? i.e. without the pipe.
I'm also guessing you used 15mm copper tube, so what size breather did you order Mark? :icon_study: :ear
Quote from: JayDub on January 05, 2017, 09:35:24 PM
I'm guessing there wasn't enough space to fit it directly onto the clutch cover spigot? i.e. without the pipe.
I'm also guessing you used 15mm copper tube, so what size breather did you order Mark? :icon_study: :ear
I'll measure the dia JD. But it fits straight on to 15mm pipe. Probably available to fit straight over spigot?Widely available on eBay.
It wouldn't fit straight on,but I read that it should be positioned away from the crankcase to prevent oil mist leakage??
My only concern is water/condensation seeping back into engine? Probably get that with the stock set up? Maybe best to position breather so it points 'down'?
No need to measure Mark - I'm just being lazy now, I can measure mine :icon_rolleyes:
QuoteI read that it should be positioned away from the crankcase to prevent oil mist leakage??
-- dunno how that works... maybe it goes off into the atmosphere rather than settling on the nearby surfaces :icon_wink:
pointing down sounds OK, I would imagine any condensation would be burned off through the intakes on the stock set-up.
If you're worried you could always route it higher near the intake.
I read somewhere that the pipe should be removed from the bottom of the airbox to clean any 'sludge' build up,as part of general maintenance.
Quote from: threepot on January 06, 2017, 05:24:18 PM
I read somewhere that the pipe should be removed from the bottom of the airbox to clean any 'sludge' build up,as part of general maintenance.
:iagree
Update:
Well, I got 5 years out of the repair, so it was worth the money I guess.
I've just had three fantastic days of riding this past week, over 1100 miles total, and the bike was flawless. It has been sweating a bit of fuel out around the petcock repair area, but not enough to drip.
That all changed yesterday, as I checked and snugged up the mounting bolts again, but now I can see the fuel is coming out of the nylon weld area itself, so the jig is up! A new tank is just over $1000, but I just rebuilt the engine and it is otherwise awesome, so there is no way I am going to abandon it now.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Tiger/i-GDMXzSk/0/2d8f25af/L/IMG_0052-L.jpg)
I called Hermys and they will contact Triumph in England to see if they are still available, but it looks like that may be a big no.
I may have to try some of my creative engineering again (oh boy!)
I think I got a tank .......
Just to be sure, I removed the petcock and remounted it with an impregnated cork/rubber gasket using some Hi Tack, and replaced the Teflon tape on the threaded valve with Blue Hylomar.
I put some fuel in the tank and put a clean paper towel underneath.
So far, so good.
Fingers (and eyes) crossed!
Filled the tank completely full and went for a 150 mile ride late this afternoon. No leaking!
When I took the Pingel mounting block off last week, I noticed the plastic mounting area wasn't perfectly flat, and the mounting block could open up a gap at one end if the other was over tightened. The body shop that did the repair actually mounted the Pingel the first time, using a thinner gasket, and I think the thicker gasket I am using now will seal both ends better. The Teflon tape may not have been the best choice either. Hopefully the Blue Hylomar will seal the petcock threads better this time.
I just rode another 750 miles over the weekend, and still no leaking, so I think it was the gasket.
This means the nylon welding the body shop did for me is still a good option for repairing these (very scarce) fuel tanks.
It is still possible to buy a new tank and ironically the price varies depending on the colour.... just be sitting down when looking at the price.
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