Welcome,
You mention DAR and sprag clutch in the same sentence - they are 2 separate issues and shouldn't be connected in any way.
I've no experience of the sprag clutch, but I've got a '98 model and as far as the DAR goes, the '98's were fitted with the upgraded shaft as standard. I've had a bit of DAR in the past but it's easily cured by pulling the alternator and rebolting the drive vanes back onto the alternator nice and tight. The hardest bit is getting the alternator back in without nipping a chunk out of the o ring.
Someone far more knowledgeable than me will pitch in soon about sprags.
Enjoy the bike, they're addictive!!
I'm not positive on this, but isn't there the bit about when the drive side bolt shears, and the sprag drops down?
Thanks GavD... I think I was getting ahead of myself... The Sprag Clutch is what needs to be replaced... Hopefully I didn't just jinx myself with the DAR!!
OK so, Hi, welcome to the Forum, and are you ready for some fun.
DAR , aka alternator rattle can be looked into/fixed without removing engine.
Sprag clutch however = Engine out.... on anything but the earliest bikes,which have an access cover, as the crankcase halves need splitting.
Not impossible, but a commitment required.
Are you confident you know which issue you have before you go get it.,
If the sprag has gone, the bike wont start easily, if at all.
Quote from: JayDub on February 12, 2017, 10:15:00 PM
I'm not positive on this, but isn't there the bit about when the drive side bolt shears, and the sprag drops down?
Not sure John, but I do know the '98s had a hollow shaft with a nut & bolt that goes all the way through instead of a solid shaft with a bolt at each end. This sorted one of the DAR issues but mine still suffered from the loose vanes version of DAR which I've 'fixed' a couple of times now.
Right let's get you sorted / worried / mind at ease :m
Have you actually seen the bike and if so heard it running :icon_scratch: is it a runner?
If not, what did the seller tell you, as closely as you can remember? As you can probably guess from some of the responses, there seem to have been some mixed messages coming across.
Hopefully there is no really bad news. A sprag clutch failure is very unlikely on the later bikes (post 96/7), if the carbs are Keihin then it's the later, might be worth asking just in case it's an ealier bike that's been sat in the back of a showroom for a while, not unheard of. Whatever you do, do NOT try to start it until you have a KNOWN good FULLY charged battery in it, or at least jump a car battery. Same goes for DAR, shouldn't be at that age but you never can tell and it's not the hardest of jobs normally.
:new_popcornsmiley until you get your mitts on it :thumbsup oh and as has already been said, we need some photos for the Readers Wives thread when you do :mut
London - are you saying that the 98' tigers don't have an access case to replace the Sprag? Is this true with all 98' tigers? I have called a few Triumph dealership... After they run my VIN they say that having the Sprag Clutch replaced will be a 3-4 hour job???? But from what I've read the Sprag Clutch on a 98' is about a 10-12 hour job? I'm starting to get worried about my purchase!!
Quote from: Hooverscon on February 14, 2017, 02:20:57 AM
London - are you saying that the 98' tigers don't have an access case to replace the Sprag? Is this true with all 98' tigers? I have called a few Triumph dealership... After they run my VIN they say that having the Sprag Clutch replaced will be a 3-4 hour job???? But from what I've read the Sprag Clutch on a 98' is about a 10-12 hour job? I'm starting to get worried about my purchase!!
I am a fairly new member here. The members, or the guys, know their stuff. People from other sites come here for help sometimes. Whatever your problem is, it usually can be fixed. So if it is the sprag, it may be labor intensive but worth it (I only know what I've read and my two-bits may be only worth that as I've never done it). My point is, all it takes is time, desire, and the manual. You can find it here somewhere. If not, PM me for a PDF copy. Good luck and come back for questions.
Hey bemusedin... Just PM'd ya
Quote from: Hooverscon on February 14, 2017, 02:20:57 AM
London - are you saying that the 98' tigers don't have an access case to replace the Sprag? Is this true with all 98' tigers? I have called a few Triumph dealership... After they run my VIN they say that having the Sprag Clutch replaced will be a 3-4 hour job???? But from what I've read the Sprag Clutch on a 98' is about a 10-12 hour job? I'm starting to get worried about my purchase!!
Have you got any pictures of the right hand side of the engine for the bike?
It will be instantly obvious if you have an older engine. (pics to follow)
Its possible the engine was swapped out previously.
You may have an older engine in a newer frame, but if so, the PO would have had an easy sprag change too.
Only the 92/3 models had the hatch and if fitting the uprated unit, the casing interals need a skim to get clearance on early casings.
All this is speculation and perhaps needless worry until you've got some facts.
I think I know the bike .............................. :mut
it used to be red , might still be .
Quote from: Mustang on February 14, 2017, 02:09:36 PM
I think I know the bike .............................. :mut
it used to be red , might still be .
As long as its not the red of the dying embers of someones soul... given to the great Carb deity as sacrifice......
:new_popcornsmiley Ooh, this is getting exciting :bad
Quote from: JayDub on February 14, 2017, 06:06:06 PM
:new_popcornsmiley Ooh, this is getting exciting :bad
:new_popcornsmiley
Haha it's Green. The VIN number matches the bike color as well! I want to get the bike repaired in Vermont then ride it home (Ohio).. Anyone know of any local shops!?
I'll try to find more
Will this picture help to determine in the how difficult the Sprag Clutch will be? Does it have an alternator cover? Or will the cases need to be split?
The alternator is the round thing,top left of the oil level stick thingy. And it looks like it has a cover! The cover the guys are referring to is on the otherside (right) :icon_wink:
If you were a betting man... Do you think the right side will have an alternator cover? Or are you thinking it will be the 13 hours repair job?
Here's a couple of videos about a sprag clutch change on the early models with the access plate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BInZc78hKw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BInZc78hKw)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lq9YdJJSh0g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lq9YdJJSh0g)
Without the access plate the engine must come out and the crankcases split to change it.
Quote from: London_Phil on February 14, 2017, 05:19:41 PM
As long as its not the red of the dying embers of someones soul... given to the great Carb deity as sacrifice......
I don't like people trying to steal my weird :tin hat you know :bad
Don't worry your still weird.............oh sorry, wired, no thats bluetoothed :icon_scratch:
Drumroll.... What's the word? Engine in or out for Sprag?
Out. You've got the later engine. Ive only done the Sprag on the earlier type,on a Trident,with the inspection plate,which for some unknown reason,Triumph did away with??
You can see he oblong plate above the clutch cover,which gave you access to the sprag.
DAMNIT! Anyone live in Ohio? Haha
Quote from: Hooverscon on February 14, 2017, 07:07:37 PM
Haha it's Green. The VIN number matches the bike color as well! I want to get the bike repaired in Vermont then ride it home (Ohio).. Anyone know of any local shops!?
not the bike I was thinking it was .................................
why do you think the sprag clutch is toast?
did the previous owner tell you its bad or what ?
It will be damn near impossible to find a shop
ANYWHERE in new england willing to do a major repair on a 18 year old motorcycle.
I dont know what you paid for said beast but I'll wager that it's going to cost you more to repair in labor charges
than you paid for the entire bike .
and to attempt to ride a 18 year ol steamer thhat you know nothing about halfway across country is probably not going to end well ....................
not trying to kill your buzz but ............................
youll do much better to throw it in a truck to bring it home .
how many miles on it ?
got any proof of service records etc etc?
hows the rest of the bike ?
tires? age ? knobbies will need replacing first day cuz youll chew them off in 500 miles ?
chain , sprockets ? they be toast on first day if not new .
has the previous owner/owners ever done anything with the pogo stick front forks , or mushy rear shock ?
probably needs a new battery b4 a big trip too .
you have or have not heard it run ?
will it even start ? even if the sprag is not the problem ?
how longs it been sitting ?
it's a 98 it's going to have piece of shit Gill coils . that alone will be enough reason to seriously doubt its reliability for the 1500=2000 mile trip home .
hows the carbs ?
how bout when was the last time it got treated to a new air filter ?
if not recently then the current oem foam one is probably rotting away .............and useless.
when if ever has the chain strip and rub block been replaced ?
any gas leaks from the fine plastic tank ?
so if after all this you still want to ride off to ohio .....................let me know when , I'll ride the first day with ya for moral support .
I can carry lots of spare parts ................... :*&*
It's a 1998 with 21000 miles. He is the second owner that bought the bike with 6000 miles on it. He said that it has been sitting for the last two years. His local triumph dealer said that it was in fact the Sprag that needed to be replaced. Other updates include: new tires, chain, sprocket, breaks, plugs, and coils.
I paid $1100 for it
I just want to repeat ...............
QuoteIt will be damn near impossible to find a shop ANYWHERE in new england willing to do a major repair on a 18 year old motorcycle.
it will take two weeks to a month or more just to get parts , even if they still can :bug_eye
ps I have seen that bike for sale before ..............................
a 98 with a bad sprag at only 21k ......is not a good thing .
do yourself a huge favor and just rent a uhaul .............................seriously !
On a positive note though............. i'm pretty sure it's a '98 model (as opposed to an earlier model registered in '98) because they look like Keihin Carbs which were only fitted in 1998. That means that the Alternator shaft upgrade was fitted when built which means you will only ever get the simple to fix version of DAR!!
Also Keihins seem to be a bit more robust than the Mikuni's although you will probably need to remove them and give them a thorough blast with carb cleaner if it's been sat for 2 years - especially the pilot jet circuit. Once they are clean though you need to fire them up every week or two to keep 'em running sweet.
Thanks GavD!! I needed that. We sure have a optimistic group here haha jk. The money has been paid... The Sprag Clutch kit has been orders, my buddies have been summoned, the garage is ready!
I will be posting the progress shortly. I'm hoping once I get everything straightened up we can all try to find a central meeting place this summer! I owe everyone a beer.
I have a downloaded picture story of the sprag being done on a Thunderbird.
About 60 pictures.
can email it in bits to you, or upload it somehow. I think I had a dropbox once.
Mustang has it too.
Thanks London!
How many hours are you guys thinking it will take to replace Sprag?
Quote from: London_Phil on February 15, 2017, 10:32:40 PM
I have a downloaded picture story of the sprag being done on a Thunderbird.
About 60 pictures.
can email it in bits to you, or upload it somehow. I think I had a dropbox once.
Mustang has it too.
I like picture stories, Phil. Perhaps a link?
Quote from: bemusedinsojo on February 16, 2017, 01:07:00 AM
I like picture stories, Phil. Perhaps a link?
Theres no link. Images were harvested from a site no longer online.
Zipped images are 5.1mb.
Will email to anyone who pms me an email address.
Mustang was going to add them to the how to section of the server, but not sure if it was ever done.
Join triumphrat.net , I think there's a step by step photo link on there? Same as Phil's?
Is the only way to figure out what tooth clutch (13 or 15) I need is to break the bike down? I had hoping to order everything now... But looks like I have to wait.
did ya know you can fix the sprag clutch with a spring from a engine seal ?
and other than the hassle of stripping the bike down the monetary cost is next to nothing ?
:nod
you take this new spring from this seal and put it in place of the stretched out one in the spag and put the bike back together .....................
http://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/p26993/40x62x7mm+Nitrile+Rubber+Rotary+Shaft+Oil+Seal+with+Garter+Spring+R23+/+TC/product_info.html
Have a read of this thread, might explain a bit more.
http://www.tigertriple.com/forum/index.php/topic,14104.msg105896.html#msg105896
According to a pro engine builder I spoke to, they get their replacement complete sprag clutches from CCM who import them at a retail price of about £25. These are apparently from Japan and the same EAN number as those supplied to Triumph and Yamaha as their spares.
Quotedid ya know you can fix the sprag clutch with a spring from a engine seal
very true, but sometimes dodgy depending on how worn out it is. it's a common fix on husaberg and ktm spragues.
I wanted to order the complete Sprag Clutch kit for 257$. I have to choose between a 13 tooth and 15 tooth clutch.. dumb question... Do I have to match what was in the bike or can I upgrade to the 15 tooth??
Its likely you have the later, updated one anyway. Check the Steamer/Service bulletins section for more info
Quote from: Sin_Tiger on February 16, 2017, 11:03:16 PMAccording to a pro engine builder I spoke to, they get their replacement complete sprag clutches from CCM who import them at a retail price of about £25. These are apparently from Japan and the same EAN number as those supplied to Triumph and Yamaha as their spares.
Do you have anymore info on this? Is there a cross reference out there someplace? Would love to find another source for the sprag
I really wish I'd paid more attention at the time and written it down. Try emailing Clive Wood (google him)
Quote from: Sin_Tiger on January 05, 2023, 04:24:43 AMI really wish I'd paid more attention at the time and written it down. Try emailing Clive Wood (google him)
Found him, thanks! Still gleaning all I can from T300 sites etc. Clive's site has a good parts cross reference section for t300 etc. Haven't found mention of alt. sprag source except 1 post, still looking. The spring fix is sounding very tempting as mine made no noise before failure. 98t400BRGUSA40k1/23