Better spokes for 95 Tiger?

[RedMenace]

I ripped a bunch of spokes out of my back wheel at the BlackDog. I have broken a couple of spokes on this bike before but never a handful of them at once.

Are there better spokes out there for the Tiger? Has anyone laced a heavier grade spoke to their rear wheel on this bike? Suggestions?

[Guest]

I'd say "it serves you right" for having so much fun!



Ia that a proper 2 wheel drive BMW on the right?

[RedMenace]

No,  that's a proper Russian Ural 2wd -we had 9 Urals entered in the Blackdog this year. All made it through Saturdays 177 mile 8 hour course with flying colors.

 We had one Ural with a failed coil, a retirement due to fatigue, one retirement due to a shoulder injury(his bike replaced the one with the failed coil and ran all day Sunday with no problems) one that bashed a hole in his oil pan Saturday and did not start Sunday. All the sidecars that did start Sunday finished with no failures. There were some TWD drive models and some conventional models in the mix. The older bikes with drum brakes reported some brake fade on the hot steep sections.

I fouled my Tigers  airfilter, requiring extensive disassembly to get at and clean. I also cracked the frame and broke 4 spokes. The Triumph is not as sturdy as the Ural in these conditions...

[Brock]

Yeah, but the Ural was built for War, surely? (First World War? Boer War? Roman Invasion?)

[RedMenace]

Yeah, but the Ural was built for War, surely? (First World War? Boer War? Roman Invasion?)

Current design is probably mid sixties tech and production standards have come way up(but they still have the occassional glich).

Don't get me wrong-I have owned East bloc bikes and know thier weaknesses. And I LOVE my Tiger, but the airfilter design SUCKS and the spine frame is not designed to take heavy sideloads and the twisting that a sidecar in rough terraine imposes on it. I am outside the design parameters with this rig. I think it can stand up to sidecar use if i don't flog it too hard. I think the Steamer is well up to dirt work as a solo bike(except for that damned idiotic airfilter). I don't think it is up to sidecar work in the dirt(but I don't see me NOT doing that;-).

I think the newer GS have the same weaknesses only moreso when it comes to sidecars-the motor/drive train as a stressed frame member is gonna be expensive to repair when the sideloads crack it off at the mounts.

The Ural, for all it's faults, has a just about indestructable frame. And these guys went all weekend  with no real problems. Two of them were ridden from Seattle to the rally, flogged all weekend and ridden home. Another was brand new, not even broken in. It was trailered to the rally, flogged all weeked then loaned to a dealer who rode it from Seattle to the BMW rally in Spokane and back again, thru the mountains and the desert during a record hot spell-no problems. I am impressed with the new Urals.

But I still love my Triumph. The engine, in particular, gives so much power and torque and sounds so good!

AND I still need to find some stronger spokes for the rear wheel!

[echoyankee]

oops, double post

[echoyankee]

It's great being intermittently humbled by a cross posting from the advrider boards.  I am simultaneously inspired and intimidated.  Maybe it's time to let out 10psi front and rear and take to the fire roads?



I am WOEFULLY underqualified to speak to the spoke replacement issue, but will venture something anyway:  



I don't suppose that the cast wheels from the 2005+ models will fit the 2001-2004 Tigers, will they?



Was there a dramatic shift in wheels between the steamers and the 955i's?



Just some cerebral flatulence.  



Anyone have thoughts on spokes versus cast wheels off road?



Best,



echoyankee

[RedMenace]

It's great being intermittently humbled by a cross posting from the advrider boards.  I am simultaneously inspired and intimidated.  Maybe it's time to let out 10psi front and rear and take to the fire roads?



I am WOEFULLY underqualified to speak to the spoke replacement issue, but will venture something anyway:  



I don't suppose that the cast wheels from the 2005+ models will fit the 2001-2004 Tigers, will they?



Was there a dramatic shift in wheels between the steamers and the 955i's?



Just some cerebral flatulence.  



Anyone have thoughts on spokes versus cast wheels off road?



Best,



echoyankee

I don' think they would stand up to what I am doing- spokes are cheap to replace, a shattered wheel not so much so. As I now have a second set of wheels for the bike, Iwould like to beef one set up for the dirt.

[Guest]

As I understand it the Russians knicked all the BMW tooling as war spoils and made the Urals with that tooling. So the first "post war" Urals were almost BMWs but made in Russia. The material quality used was woefull. Therefore the early Russian bike were not "invasion quality".



Sorry, nothing to do with Tigers. :oops:

[RedMenace]

As I understand it the Russians knicked all the BMW tooling as war spoils and made the Urals with that tooling. So the first "post war" Urals were almost BMWs but made in Russia. The material quality used was woefull. Therefore the early Russian bike were not "invasion quality".



Sorry, nothing to do with Tigers. :oops:

I think that is revisionist history. Another "history" you will see is that the Russians purchased 5 BMWs through Swiss intermediaries at the start of the war and "reverse engineered" the tooling to produce the Urals. In fact, they were making these bikes since the very early days of the war, when the Russians were allied with Germany. I believe the Germans sold them tooling for an obsolete bike with sidecar in something like the lend lease program the Allies had. The Russians sold the Chinese the early tooling for the flatheads when they were moving most of thier production to the overhead valve design.

If you look at a Russian or Chang Jiang early flathead boxer, you will see they are almost identical to a prewar BMW R71- a bike which was used by civilians and the Postal Service in Germany, but not produced for the German military as far as I know. I think the similiarities are too great for reverse engineering and the timing of production gives the lie to the "spoils of war" story. The Russians hate to admit they were ever allied to Hitler.

For an example of reverse engineering take a look at the Harley WXA copy of the BMW. The frame and electrics are quite different but the engine is a close copy. A Chang, Ural, Harley or BMW flathead look like the heads can be exchanged without problems!

The newer Ural and Dneprs went to overhead valves and swingarms and are similar to early BMW airhead designs, but a close look will show you the Russians evolved these bikes from the platform they acquired during WWII - they are in no way slavish copies of the path BMW took.



By the way I STILL need better spokes for my Tiger-haven't any of you Girly boys broken your spokes yet?

[RedMenace]

I ordered a set of spokes from Central Wheel Components, in the UK



http://www.central-wheel.co.uk/



Stainless steel, thier"Bulldog" pattern. 38 pounds for a full set with nipples, to fit my rear wheel. 11 pounds for shipping- works out to around $88US, got them in a week. Waiting to get the wheel relaced now(not in such a hurry as the sidecar axle is broken and my ignition has gone wonky AGAIN).