Hello folks,
Well no one seemed to find my post re: engaging 3rd gear all that engaging so let me try another question as a week-old newbie:
I find it hard to get much of a lean angle going on my '99 at highway speeds. I find this disconcerting; I'm worried I'll get caught unable to dodge a sticky situation (never mind miss out on some potential fun.)
Why is that my usual push-steering technique doesn't seem to get the bike to heel over? When I do manage to nail a corner, why do the wide bars feel like I'm steering it with the outside grip, tricycle-like? I feel like I'm delicately dirt-biking it around corners, if that makes any sense, even though I'm strafing around at 120kph.
I read a review that mentioned this problem but the writer didn't explain how he got around it. After a few long and fast rides, I'm a bit embarassed that the little whiskers on the sides of my new rear Tourance are very much still in place.
Tips? Thanks!
Rob
Heh. That's funny.
I've always pulled to turn, and just today noticed that on the Tiger I push to turn (in most cases). Seating position have anything to do with it?
No disrespect to the Tiger, at least my 97, but generally speaking I find it the most stiff bike to quickly manuver around. Unflickable? is that still worthy. I can honestly say at 55mph I can run zig zaging thru the highway broken lines on my Old Harley but no way could I do it on the Tiger. Not sure if thats a good thing or not.but.... I was real hesitant to run TKC`s also after how they felt on my Ducati Elefant. They have the fall over feeling in corners. surprisingly It didnt happen on the Tiger. Look at the benefits of dead steady handeling at speeds though. Guess its all a trade off.
If the bike doesn't feel neutral in corners then its not set up right. You should be able to take your hands off the bars mid corner without upsetting anything. Have you seen pictures of some smartarse running his hand on the deck mid corner? It's not clever. It's just that the bike setup is spot on and everything feels secure.
So, try experimenting with the tyre pressures, shock settings like pre-load. If the ride height is wrong it means the steering geometry is wrong too.
You need to spend time experimenting to get the bike feeling right for you.
An obvious one that will definitely affect cornering - is your rear squared off? Which is a bit like asking if you have juice in the tank when the bike won't start. If the tyre is squared off a new one will transform the bike.
Quote from: "greg"An obvious one that will definitely affect cornering - is your rear squared off? Which is a bit like asking if you have juice in the tank when the bike won't start. If the tyre is squared off a new one will transform the bike.
What a thicko I am, I now notice you have a new Tourance fitted :oops:
Thanks for the tips, everyone; I'm listening! Having had the bike only a week, I'm open to any and all suggestions.
And I'm open to the argument that a Tiger isn't supposed to handle like my friend's FZ1 (Fazer to you Euro-dwellers) - it certainly can do things on unpaved roads that the others can't.
Yes, the Metzelers are brand-new. Tire pressures are spec, rear pre-load is one click firmer than factory settings, and I haven't even figured out where the rebound setting is for the rear.
But the roads have been smooth so far so I suspect the flaw is in the rider. Perhaps I need shift my weight more to the inside of a turn. Perhaps I need to treat the bars with the delicacy and respect I never granted to that first-year girl I never got anywhere with. Perhaps I need to get myself those crash bars I can't afford yet and take a few medium-speed risks.
Anyway, thanks for the advice so far. I'd love to hear more.
And thanks for your advice in the past; I was lurking on this site for a while before deciding to go Triumph.
Rob
Is your front tire Ok - worn fronts can end up with a higher ridge down the centre - makes it feel like it won't turn, and when it does, like it won't sit up again. Really horrible feeling.
That might have been a possibility, Kevm, but my front is a brand new Tourance too. At least I'm putting some wear onto the sides of that one.
Anyway, I may just have to chalk it up to the characteristics of this type of bike -- jack of all trades, master of , umm, mud. :)
R.
I saw an Discovery channel show that talked about choppers and their propensity to want to go in a straight line (witness chopper guys riding hands free at freeway speeds). Basically the more raked out the forks of a chopper the less inclined it is to want to turn. They gave an explanation regarding the physics of this but it fails me now.
OK so look at the Tiger compared to majority of street bikes, relatively long wheelbase and raked out more than most. Say pre 2004.
With regards to push steering I have found the same thing as other people wrote. My own observation or comment is that I don't even have to push steer. Going into a turn if I shift my weight to the inside of the turn the bike leans and follows the turn.
You can't just throw the tiger into a curve with a large +/- variance. Screw it up on the high end and you could be in trouble compared to other bikes. But get it right, accelerate through and out she responds beautifully.
I would really like to hear others comments.
I saw an Discovery channel show that talked about choppers and their propensity to want to go in a straight line (witness chopper guys riding hands free at freeway speeds). Basically the more raked out the forks of a chopper the less inclined it is to want to turn. They gave an explanation regarding the physics of this but it fails me now.
OK so look at the Tiger compared to majority of street bikes, relatively long wheelbase and raked out more than most. Say pre 2004.
With regards to push steering I have found the same thing as other people wrote. My own observation or comment is that I don't even have to push steer. Going into a turn if I shift my weight to the inside of the turn the bike leans and follows the turn.
You can't just throw the tiger into a curve with a large +/- variance. Screw it up on the high end and you could be in trouble compared to other bikes. But get it right, accelerate through and out she responds beautifully.
I would really like to hear others comments.
Hey 3Rider,
From where you are I would try the Calabogie Boogie.......
Or Maybe the Ompah Stomp....(County road 509).
Slow at first and pick it up from there.
I Just bought a 05 Tiger last fall and was delighted by the neutral steering characteristics of the big cat......Fast sweepers are more its forte rether than flicking through twisties....
Have fun, Ride safe....
Steve
I just put a set of Pirelli Scorpion MT90's on my '05. Anyone else ever try these?
They handle much quicker than the stock Anakees. If I so much as look too hard at one of the grips it falls right over into a turn. It's actually a little tiring to ride in a straight line at some speeds, as it just wants to fall over with the slightest steering input. Very quick and easy to transition on a twisty road though, and they seem to have pretty decent bite.
If you want a quicker steering Tiger they might be worth a try.
My Steamer has a tendency to fall slightly into corners, but a fistfull of throttle at the apex allways adds stability and help straighten her up. Isn't this the way a bike should be ridden anyway?
Also: tight twisties are tough because the center of mass on these bikes is really high. So, to swing all that weight from one side to the other will take some time and force. Thats why the tiger isn't flickable like a sportbike. But on long sweepers the bike shines, the high center of mass now helps ballance the bike and settle the suspension.
I also run a few psi less than the manual says, to improve grip. A vague front-end feel seems to be the nature of the beast. Thanks to soft and long-travel forks. The comfort comes at a price.
Just my two cents...
My Steamer has a tendency to fall slightly into corners, but a fistfull of throttle at the apex allways adds stability and help straighten her up. Isn't this the way a bike should be ridden anyway?
Also: tight twisties are tough because the center of mass on these bikes is really high. So, to swing all that weight from one side to the other will take some time and force. Thats why the tiger isn't flickable like a sportbike. But on long sweepers the bike shines, the high center of mass now helps ballance the bike and settle the suspension.
I also run a few psi less than the manual says, to improve grip. A vague front-end feel seems to be the nature of the beast. Thanks to soft and long-travel forks. The comfort comes at a price.
Just my two cents...
Thanks for the advice, everyone. I'll take it easy until I find my limits, then the bikes.
Greetings, TrkTek. You're absolutely right; it was on the 511 on the long weekend that I was testing my various and nefarious cornering methods. (Only one sighting of another Triumph - older red Sprint, I think, though I was concentrating on something else at the time.) Naturally, I rode around the unfinished racetrack just to say I had done it. As an added bonus, I have a cottage down a messy dirt road on Hwy 41, making the Centennial Lake extension a soon-to-be regular route. I'm off to the garage now to get a few bugs off the windscreen and the pine sorrowfully at the rain.
Rob
What about lowering/raising the forks?
Is it raising the forks through the triple clamps that makes it turn in quicker? Or the other way around??
Quote from: "Mudhen"What about lowering/raising the forks?
Is it raising the forks through the triple clamps that makes it turn in quicker? Or the other way around??
Yes, raise the forks in the tripleclamp to improve turn-in. But careful: check the tire clearance to the engine/guard with the forks fully compressed.
I recently test rode two tigers, and noticed a large difference in handling. One had been lowered a little, and felt much more responsive to turns (though I think almost to the point of having it feel unstable). The lower bike had the rear cams flipped and the front was lowered in the forks. Huge difference between the two, and it was due to the steering geometry. Lower your front end in the forks a little, and I think you'll feel a big difference in cornering responsiveness.
I consider myself pretty proficient at riding dual purpose bikes after 12 yrs of Africa Twins and 2 yrs of the Varadero. I reckon the Tiger has less rake than the Hondas, I find the steering quite sharp in comparison!
It's not my Blade obviously but I think the bike steers well. I have touched the pegs on the Africa once, the Varadero was a daily basis, clearance issue? I've pushed the Tiger as far as scare myself and still haven't got the pegs to touch! The tourance on the back looks like the sides have never been completely over? I'm going to try the faithfull Bridgestone deathwings next, I've a lot of faith in them due to past experience on the Africas and the Varadero. I do travel offroad occasionally, hard tracks mainly and found the Trialwings perfect for the allround purpose I require them.
I tend to agree with Eviltwin, though I'm no expert on bike suspension, tires or handling, and I've never owned a sport bike.
I'm six months in to my Tiger; previously owned a cruiser. I'm STILL trying to figure out how to take tight curves at higher speeds.
Best as I can figure is to use what they called the "counter-steering" technique taught in my MSF street and dirt bike classes: I still push, but my weight is shifted outside rather than leaning/pulling the bike in toward the turn. Kinda like how you would do a swerving maneuver.
This works much more comfortably/confidently for me in high speed turns.
High center of gravity on the Tiger: easier to work with it than against it.
Quote from: squarepegI'm six months in to my Tiger; previously owned a cruiser. I'm STILL trying to figure out how to take tight curves at higher speeds.
quote]
Yes, try and "push the bike down" in a tight corner, but leave your body mostly upright. A bit like the supermoto guys do. This way its easier to put the inside leg out, helps with corner confidence. The result is more leanangle for the bike (shorter turn radius), with your weight stabilizing the whole affair. Gets you around tight corners faster. Again, just my two cents... :D
I've been looking at Tigers -- not an owner yet -- but found this cornering tip while looking at reviews (this review was for the 01):
QuoteSteering at first seems faintly tiller-like, with wide handlebars perched on top of such a large, long motorcycle (wheelbase is a substantial 61 inches), but you soon learn the trick of turning quickly. Grip the tank pads between the knees, and waggle your backside to change direction. Sounds weird: works well (thanks to Reg Pridmore for that tip). When you get the hang of nudging the bike into bends, you'll find a road-handler that's as agile as most, especially when the going gets tough.
The review is at:
http://www.motorworld.com/roadtests/200 ... index.html (http://www.motorworld.com/roadtests/2001/triumph_tiger/index.html)
Quote from: "squeezer"I've been looking at Tigers -- not an owner yet -- but found this cornering tip while looking at reviews (this review was for the 01):
QuoteSteering at first seems faintly tiller-like, with wide handlebars perched on top of such a large, long motorcycle (wheelbase is a substantial 61 inches), but you soon learn the trick of turning quickly. Grip the tank pads between the knees, and waggle your backside to change direction. Sounds weird: works well (thanks to Reg Pridmore for that tip). When you get the hang of nudging the bike into bends, you'll find a road-handler that's as agile as most, especially when the going gets tough.
The review is at:
http://www.motorworld.com/roadtests/200 ... index.html (http://www.motorworld.com/roadtests/2001/triumph_tiger/index.html)
Ah..... Counter steering is the answer (as it is for many cornering related issues) . See http://www.visordown.com/forums/search.php?searchid=464192 for more than you ever wanted to know............
Well, you definitely have my agreement. Countersteering is certainly how I've been taught to ride, and I actually don't believe anyone is really doing anything else when they turn -- maybe just accomplishing countersteering in different and less efficient ways.
Still, this thing sounded like a technique that might help the Tiger turn in. And, heck, who am I to argue with Reg Pridmore???
I still haven't been on a Tiger yet -- just doing some background checks. Such a cool bike!
I'm going to lower the forks some on my '96. I had raised them 5/8" to compensate for my wheel swap, and it's unbelievably twitchy. I'll try going to 1/2" and hopefully that will help...not sure if 1/8" will even be noticeable.
I`ve put som 65000kms to my -99 injection and have over the last five years of ownership tried various corneringtechniques. Coming from a Bimota Supermono my first try was pushing the inside bar when cornering and this turned out very well for me. I find it more effortless to push than to pull and I`ve come to believe that the relatively large front wheel of the Tiger is easier to control when pushing vs. pulling. When riding duo with luggage on longer trips (up to eight bags attached to the bike) I often find it neccesary to put some weight in the inside footpeg an slip my ass (I`ve forgot the correct english word, sorry...) in the desired direction to help the bike corner. This combined or varied with the opposite knee pressing on the tank from the other side has got my (and my passenger) throuhg all the bends I/we`ve met. I use Metzeler Tourance , have tried both Michelin T66 (orig. spec.) and Pirellis but they`didn`t suit me. I`ve also fitted progressive front spring and a three-way adjustable susp.unit from WP, but theese mods have only been carried out in the last year so the above mentioned experiences ponit back to a more or less standard bike.
Sorry to be reviving such a long-dead discussion thread but it seemed to attract some interest at the time so I thought I'd share an update.
I just returned from a performance riding course (www.fastridingschool.com (http://www.fastridingschool.com)) on Ontario's Shannonville racetrack and then experimented on my '99 through a 4-day tour of the Adirondack mountains. Though I chose to ride an SV650 at the track (what torque! what a great sound! oh so that's how you wheelie!), this confirmed a couple of impressions I have drawn in my first few months of Tiger taming:
> Push steering (counter-steering) is definitely the way to go in extremely aggressive cornering at high speed ...*unless* you're on a Tiger, where push-steering gets you to only around 65% of a full lean. After this point, push steering generates an uncertain feel and seems to send me back out to the outside of the turn. What it takes at this point, I find, is some serious weight transfer:
> "Hanging off" is what Tiggers like. I had never tried this on the road, of course, because I look like some 21 year old knob and it doesn't really suit the Tiger's gentleman-adventurer character. But if you're ever surprised by a decreasing radius corner, put all your weight on the inside peg, lift your butt off the seat, and move your outside butt cheek way over to the inside-side of the seat. Literally, you'll be in a standing crouch to the left of your fast-moving bike. Presto, the bike tightens its line without even a perceptible increase in lean.
I consider myself a less experienced rider (this is my 3rd year and second bike) so I welcome any challenges to my newly formed opinions. Take this advice with that pound of salt in mind. But gainsay who dare! :-) I managed to touch down a peg on the SV on that track, I've enjoyed riding friends' bikes of various types, and yet I really find the Tiger corners in a way different from other bikes.
Other opinions welcome!
Here's the advice I don't hesitate to give: Attend one of these performance riding schools. There's no way to truly practice extreme cornering on the road.
Rob
Hi 3Rider,
I'd agree with your comments re push steering and weight transfer with the possible addition that I like to get my weight transfer done before I tip in. This may not be rider school theory but makes the bike feel more stable to me and reduces the tendancy to run wide.
The other suggestion I'd make being new to this type of machine is that you satisfy yourself that the suspension setup is in the ball park then get comfortable with that setup before you start modifying things. Otherwise you risk chasing your tail. Am I riding this thing right? is the set up o.k? One thing at a time.
I have new tourances. They grip well, are scrubbed to the edge but no scrapes yet. Wouldn't mind doing a track day on tigger to learn how to ride it better!
Russell
Hey 3Rider,
Great advice about getting additional training from professionals.......
By the way, how costly was Shannonville?
It's Just down the street from me.....
Steve
I've found like most that I have no need to be as GENTLE on the Tiger as on other bikes.
It seems that I need to be really physical and hang off really well.
I've not yet had major lean angle, but on gentle back and forth bends at around 180 or higher you can really muscle it and it seems to handle alright.
Seems that I hang off on it where on other bikes a little push or pull on the bars gets you there...
I kind of like it. Feels like you are really given er... :D
Quote from: "TRKTEK"Hey 3Rider,
Great advice about getting additional training from professionals.......
By the way, how costly was Shannonville?
It's Just down the street from me.....
Steve
Hi Steve,
They offer one and two-day courses. I took the one-day, which cost $500 Cdn plus $100 CDN for insurance. That includes either an SV650, GSX-R 600, or an R6 plus all gear. Add another $40 for a CDROM of professional photos of yourself on the track - - who wouldn't? :) It may sound a bit expensive but given the number of people it takes to run the thing, I don't think anyone's getting rich. Add $400 more for the 2-day course. A number of people were taking it for the second time. My own next step, if I were to invest in a track bike, would be to do track days to practice what I learned. But 1m18sec. on the Nelson circuit was perfectly good for mild-mannered old me.
- Rob
"gainsay who dare"!!!!!!
excellent ML reference. That triggered a few synapses that hadn't fired since my days as a student
Right on
"gainsay who dare"!!!!!!
excellent ML reference. That triggered a few synapses that hadn't fired since my days as a student
Right on
http://www.triumph-tiger.com/phpBB2/vie ... php?t=2425 (http://www.triumph-tiger.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2425)
This is the guy we should be asking about cornering tips....... :shock: