(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_bNWCp21GtiE/TQ6xQ2iwDLI/AAAAAAAAAl4/Nw_Cqax-vxg/s576/%5BUNSET%5D.jpg)
I'm rebuilding the drive train on this thing.
Some folks in meat-space asked me about this photo. The black horn-shaped thing coming out of the top of the engine with the red rag in it is the fuel-injection system's velocity stack. It's made of rubber believe it or not! Because the engine vibrates so much.
Every single screw or bolt on the engine has thread locker on it because the engine vibrates so much. If you check Erik Buell's list of patents, most of them are for engine vibration reduction. What a waste of engineering talent. I think the world might be better off without Harley Davidson.
Quote from: "Colonel Nikolai"I think the world might be better off without Harley Davidson.
That's not an opinion... that's a fact. It's really one of those companies that has done nothing to spur the industry, just it's culture. Pains one to think where the American motorcycle market may be today without H-D's presence.
That said... I do own a Buell (Ok it's the girl friend's Blast). And have to agree whole heartily about the wasted engineering on anti-vibration technology. Don't remember a thumper in history having so many anti -vibration parts on it. :BangHead
Quote from: "EvilBetty"Pains one to think where the American motorcycle market may be today without H-D's presence.
Yes I sometimes think about that. A buddy of mine bought a Yamaha Warrior recently. This is a 1.5 liter 45-degree v-twin motor cruiser that weighs something over 700 lbs dry, has 90 horses and has a 200 rear tire. :roll:
Yet of all the bikes I wanted to ride this summer, no offense, the Buell here was the one. It's 51" wheelbase, light weight and amazing handling is so much fun. But the engine is, frankly, so poorly thought out and so backward I'm getting discouraged almost before I begin.
I got it really cheap with 8600 miles on the odo but some bad bearing(s) in the tranny.
Hey by the way, nice to see you upgraded your cat! What do you think of the front suspension?
Hated it when I first got it. I spent $350 at Cafe Racer to have the front springs upgraded to 1.0 RaceTech springs and new fork oil and it was a tremendous improvement. Just need to get the rear spring done now :)
I still sometimes think I would really like a Buell X1 Lightning to play with. But it's been about a year since I sat on a Speed Triple :)
Hmmm - well the much malgned Buell IS actually a pretty capable machine. Have an 08' XB12X parked next to the 06 Tiger in warm / dry garage.. The mythical legend & fierce feline seem to tollerate each other just fine. The Uly has some quirks, to be sure - but is a serious adventure canyon carver - once you get it dialed in. (inclding setting suspension for your wt) The bearing issue is easily sorted out. If bike has unknown history I would swap out bearings as precaution. Over torque by some ham fisted tech or owner can crush / distort alum spacer - if that happens - new bearings will fail as easily / quickly as the old. Replace spacer, ($15) replace bearings ($30). Torque rear to 25ft# - back off 2 turns - retorque to 50ft#. Replacement bearings should have BLACK seals (KBC) NOT red seals (NTN) (NTNs were a weak link) When removing wheel @ every tire change, carefully pick seals with small jewlers screwdriver & scoop out some of the old grease. Repack lightly with new grease (I use mobil 1 synthetic) Carefully Re-press in seals. Then use antiseize & press in with finger between seal & bearing (this helps keep H2O out) Wipe off excess, remount wheel and your ready to ride. I have about 30K miles on this set (did front too) Bearings are fine - expect another 30K before I replace as precaution. Takes about 30 mins total at tire change to accomplish. Worth it - when ya consider the alternative. Don't know about all the other years - but my 08' had some teething issues - been great the last 25K miles though. I actually appreciate the visceral & venerable old 1203 Vtwin. It's easy to work on, pretty darn reliable - shakes at idle but smooths out @ around 2K RPM - and very smooth @ 3-6K RPM. 3K= 60mph 6k = 115mph. Redlines @ 7,100. Lots of torque (85ft# & 103 Hp) I wouldnt trade my Tiger for one - but the Uly is an iconic machine with lots of heart. They only made about 8,000 XB12Xs from 06 - 10. I got me a collectors item - maybe no parts - but a collectors item nonetheless.
jphish the bearings of which I speak is in the transmission - diagnosis is "total internal transmission failure" so I will be replacing all the internal tranny parts I can find that look suspicious - but it's good advice nonetheless, thanks!
I think within the next 5 years Buell will have a solid production line moving again. He is just freeing up from all of the HD stuff and working hard on the race bikes right now. I have very few people that I look up to but Erik is for sure one of them.
Quote from: "EvilBetty"Hated it when I first got it. I spent $350 at Cafe Racer to have the front springs upgraded to 1.0 RaceTech springs and new fork oil and it was a tremendous improvement. Just need to get the rear spring done now :)
I still sometimes think I would really like a Buell X1 Lightning to play with. But it's been about a year since I sat on a Speed Triple :)
Mirrors my experience renting a Tiger 1050. The front end is kinda cheap. Sasquatch even said they're worse than Girly stock front ends.
What do you like so much about the X1? I didn't look at Buells much until I saw the XB, which the first time you look at it, it's like looking at a motorcycle for the first time all over again. Looks like it came from the future. Taking it apart it does seem very modern in so many ways EXCEPT the engine. When I had a chance to get one cheap, I got it. Now I feel a bit like I bit off more than I can chew. Will let you know!
Front end really isn't cheap just setup for a 140lb rider, which I am not :shock:
The back is a bit stiffer, but with even a little luggage or a 9 year old pillion it's maxed out.
Something about the old X1's just appealed to me. Raw street fighter look to it. Very basic. I know after test driving all the Buells last year at the local HD Buell clearance demo days... that I really wouldn't be happy with one though. I'm just too spoiled on tipples. Maybe a street triple :)
Last fall I had the opportunity to ride my friend's Uly for about 4 hours on the highway. It was a really nice bike to ride; very comfortable, lots of power, decent wind protection. It was a cool October day at the time, so I appreciated the heat blowing onto my right leg, keeping it toasty warm. It was a cool bike, it is just a pity that H-D treated Buell like the red-headed stepchild. Although there is a H-D dealer in our city, it wasn't a Buell dealer and wouldn't touch the bike with a 10-ft pole. The Buell dealer 4 hours away, didn't have much more enthusiasm when it came to the brand either. My friend has since sold his Buell, which is a shame, but I don't think he is much into collectibles.
There was an interview with Erik Buell in Motorcyclist this past month. His non-competition agreement with H-D runs out in Feb. 2011 and it looks like he will slowly get back into the biz. There was speculation that he might join up with Bombardier. He talked about using Rotax engines, which would be an improvement over the Sportster engine, for sure.
Hey Col' - yeah, sorry about bearing confusion. I had just switched from BWB site, where wheel bearings was (is) a perpetual discussion. You might want to use that group of hooligans for web assistance - should you run into difficulty during repair of tranny. My wife always opined the Uly looks like a 'praying mantis' - it does exude certain insect qualities.
THIS IS TIGER TRIPLE ....... TRIUMPH TIGER'S Whats all this Buell talk
NKL - I think thats an artifact of me being over 60 & having multiple steeds - some of us get confused. :? TTFN
Everything alright in the critic's section? Someone get NKL a drink.
Quote from: "Colonel Nikolai"Everything alright in the critic's section? Someone get NKL a drink.
:occasion14 :friday
Im bike-curious enough to want to demo a XR1200x. Everything you read about them is tops. The one H-D that I could possibly stomach.
Or you could be like my brother in law and buy a new 30k Ultra Limited 103" monkey spank, er. $30,000 friggin dollars with the factory 103" motor, he wasnt happy with how it ran so put a stage 1 Screaming Eagle kit and $Performance$ exhaust. It runs great now after an additional 3k. It does sound cool, more of a new vette sound than your typical.....potato..potato...potato. The whole time Im standing there in shock :shock: thinkin if I spent $33k I would have a whole stable of dream bikes.......919, Scrambler, WR250r, etc, etc.......
AGREED but, brad, what about a Duc 1098 Superbike? :wink:
(http://motorcycleperformance.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/ducati_1098_14.jpg)
Ah yes definitely....even though it would blow more of my $$....
1098R Bayless as a 2 year leftover at Motoeuropa in St. Louis. They knocked $2,000 off. Its still spendy, but Oh so beautiful...
What is it with Tiger owners and Buells? Next to my Steamer in my heated garage is a 98 Buell S3T, complete with the hard bags.
Here it is: an estwhile Buell. I hope I never have to do this with the tiger or the sprint. (see the Tiger in the left hand background?)
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_bNWCp21GtiE/TRoMkp5vqJI/AAAAAAAAAmw/SS8xKv2D6Hg/s912/IMG_20101227_221803.jpg)
I find the Buell easy to work on. Its similar technology to my garden tractor. Everything is out there easy to get a wrench on, easy to understand. No so with the Tiger.
If you had a BMW in the garage would there be a German flag hanging?
Quote from: "cascadetiger"I find the Buell easy to work on. Its similar technology to my garden tractor. Everything is out there easy to get a wrench on, easy to understand. No so with the Tiger.
So far it hasn't been too hard to work on, but I don't have much to compare it to. The last engine I pulled was on a 1980 Toyota Pickup and it was easier than the Buell pictured. Some very tight mounts there.
I am impressed that the swing arm mounts directly to a hinge casting on the motor itself, subtracting what would normally be some kind of frame-based hinge. That is some impressive space and weight-saving. I'm also impressed at how high quality and high-design the peripheral components are. The idler pully looks like it belongs in the Smithsonian. This machine was very carefully thought out. Too bad the motor's design doesn't match the rest of the bike.
Quote from: "cascadetiger"If you had a BMW in the garage would there be a German flag hanging?
Might. I am German: born in Munich, grew up in Darmstadt. My family is Hessian so maybe a flag of the Hessian Ducal Crest would be appropriate. Or the flag of Bavaria since it's where I was born and where BMW's name comes from.
Uh...We have good taste ??
Oh yeah, DFuzz: I'll bet Erik Buell signs with Victory / Polaris next year. In fact I'd be willing to wager $50 on that.
Can't take that bet... cause I'd say the same
Here's something that really irks me:
http://www.sexandharleys.com/harley-dav ... lout-loan/ (http://www.sexandharleys.com/harley-davidson-took-2-3-billion-secret-bailout-loan/)
While Harley Davidson took 2.3 Billion in bailout money, they still axed Buell which had a headcount of only 200 employees. The fact that they wouldn't even attempt to sell the outfit reeks of not only incompetence, but foolish pride. Saying it was a "business decision" to me has now changed to "we just don't want to try that hard".
I've now relegated Harley Davidson to a company in the same category as Fossil or Swatch.
yeah - too bad. Buell was the only innovative thing in the HD lineup. But didn't come with free eye patch. HD is emblematic of the myopia plaguing American corporations. For Buell to have ever survived in the long term - it probably needed to undock from the mothership & the HD aircooled Vtwin. We may not have seen the 'last' of EB & Rotax - who knows. PS-I actually liked the 'thunderstorm' motor that BMC built - but I'm a minority. A lot easier to work on than my 955. But still prefer the triple.
Quote from: "jphish"PS-I actually liked the 'thunderstorm' motor that BMC built - but I'm a minority. A lot easier to work on than my 955. But still prefer the triple.
I think I understand your admiration. They really are very simple engines that are really easy to work on. Plus now that I've been reading more on the Thunderstorm engine, apparently BMC's work based on the XL motor to get better performance, resulting in the Thuderstorm, has resulted in the top performing production Harley engine ever made, first debuted in the S1 back in the 90's. Guess who loves these engines?
People who are building custom choppers.Here's mine with the bad tranny inside:
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_bNWCp21GtiE/TSFB5WTmNaI/AAAAAAAAAoA/vov0Z61il2Y/s512/IMG_20101227_213950.jpg)
But because the bike is so light and the engine is so compact, it works OK in the Lightning. Would I prefer the Rotax Helicon 1125 found in the latest Buells? Youbetcha. Too bad Buell didn't last long enough to show us what a Uly with an 1125 could do.
Simple = No valve adjustments & No throttle bodies to sync. How EB got 103 HP out of an antiquated Vtwin, 4 valve, push rod engine is beyond me - & also meets emmission requirements with no catalytic converter. I think a Uly with the "Helicon for hooligans" would have required 'detuning' - or a much more capable & disciplined rider than I ! Hope the transmission cooperates in it's 'reconstruction'. Give us a progress report when fully entangled. TTFN, j
Its not so much the horsepower, but its how the bike puts the power down. It all about torque. Coming out of a turn, almost any RPM, and it just goes hard. Its all done at 5,000 rpm, but for riding on the street its a great engine. I have had Japanese bikes that don't get started making powder until 6,000 rpm. The Buell will spank them. It has a great character to it. It is also loud, crude, and shakes like the hardware store paint shaker. This requires weekly inspections to tighten various fasteners. This would not be my only bike, but makes a great 2nd one to the Steamer.
Quote from: "cascadetiger"Its all done at 5,000 rpm, but for riding on the street its a great engine.
But it starts at around 2,500 rpm in my experience. :?
Quote from: "cascadetiger"I have had Japanese bikes that don't get started making powder until 6,000 rpm. The Buell will spank them.
Maybe in a quarter mile. A friend with GSXR 600 said he would race one of them from a dead stop and they'd hesitate from a stop at first (it's a twin, after all), the gixr would pull out in front, then the firebolt would fly past him until he hit second gear (the gixr can go to 50 in first :shock: or so I'm told) and blow it away.
Quote from: "cascadetiger"It has a great character to it. It is also loud, crude, and shakes like the hardware store paint shaker. This requires weekly inspections to tighten various fasteners.
It
does grow on you. I like the sound of the Buell. It's louder than my tiger but not loud like these crazy-loud Harleys with megaphone pipes on them. Drives me nuts and gives me, a responsible motorcyclist, a bad reputation by association. I don't like that at all.
They are very simple motors. Check it out:
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_bNWCp21GtiE/TSnVsbB09FI/AAAAAAAAAoY/rMaHdh0pbIs/s720/IMG_20110108_183134.jpg)
Quote from: "cascadetiger"This would not be my only bike, but makes a great 2nd one to the Steamer.
Completely agree. You haven't talked about how Buells handle, though! They are, frankly, amazing. At least the XB models like this one. The bike feels like a feather when I'm riding. Sticks to the road like glue.
The Buell is not so fast in a straight line, its not a quarter mile bike. It is fast in corners. My son rides a Daytona 675. Its not even close in a drag race. But when we ride in the hills in Western Wisconsin, he can't keep up with the Buell. Yes, it handles awesome. It corners in such a way that the driver feels confident.
Why does the Uly need an overhaul?
Quote from: "cascadetiger"... But when we ride in the hills in Western Wisconsin, he can't keep up with the Buell. Yes, it handles awesome. It corners in such a way that the driver feels confident.
Cascadetiger, we need to talk. I ride those hills in Western Wisconsin too and I love 'em. When we ice out, let's meet!
Quote from: "cascadetiger"Why does the Uly need an overhaul?
It's an '03 Lightning, not a Uly, sadly. Wish I had a Uly. But it's just as you say: a cornering monster. I bought it cheap with 8600 miles on it because the tranny sounded like a cement mixer. I rode it around for a week and noticed it was getting louder. Tried everything: changing the primary (tons of metal flake in the fluid ... oh-oh :shock:), adjusting the clutch, etc. Took it to St. Paul Harley who diagnosed it with "complete internal transmission failure" and wanted $3600.00 to rebuild it.
At that point I decided I'll take a swing at the rebuild. So here we are.
Wish me luck!
Sounds good, on meeting and riding Western WI, let's touch base when the snow melts.
I have been told that the Sportster transmission is a cartridge type that is easily removed for overhaul. Easy being a relative term!
Got mine cheap because the clutch was going out at at 50,000 miles. I put in a new clutch and drive belt and its been going strong since, its at 60,000 now.
Quote from: "cascadetiger"Sounds good, on meeting and riding Western WI, let's touch base when the snow melts.
Check!
Quote from: "cascadetiger"I have been told that the Sportster transmission is a cartridge type that is easily removed for overhaul. Easy being a relative term!
Not on a Buell. Buell transmissions / drivetrain are more like a Ducati. The swingarm bolts into a mount that is part of the lower engine case and the tranny is in a compartment in the engine case behind the crankshaft.
Check out these pictures. This is a later Buell XB transmission:
(http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/3842/161720.jpg)
And this is a harley davidson or pre 2003 Buell transmission (i.e. a Baker "cassette" tranny)
(http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/3842/161721.jpg)
The later Buells use a lighter, more modern helically-cut-gear transmission. The older ones and Harleys use a heavier, clunkier (because the gears are straight-cut and weigh more), more expensive to manufacture
but easier to work on Baker tranny.
Quote from: "cascadetiger"Got mine cheap because the clutch was going out at at 50,000 miles. I put in a new clutch and drive belt and its been going strong since, its at 60,000 now.
Aww, I wish it were just the clutch!
Hey Col' - Saw a thread on the Buell "Badweatherbikers" regarding 'engine lifespan?' - good article from cycle magazine on the test they did in 05' comparing it to 9 other machines. You might be interested. Chow' j
Quote from: "jphish"Hey Col' - Saw a thread on the Buell "Badweatherbikers" regarding 'engine lifespan?' - good article from cycle magazine on the test they did in 05' comparing it to 9 other machines. You might be interested. Chow' j
Read that. Read the 30,000 mile test PDF from Motorrad. Buell has done a lot that they deserve credit for. They seem to have reached parity with some of the best in the industry. But the redesign of the transmission and rerouting of the oil in the drive train in 2006 are probably a result of early tranny death in my 2003, which, while not routine, wasn't rare, either.
I have pulled the clutch pack and have removed the neutral switch so I can see the shifter detent. All the bearings in the clutch look fine (like I suspected). Some carbon on the piston tops, though.
Soon the cases will be split and I will be looking at the tranny!
Clunk is a good desription of my Buell/Sportster transmission. Wearing tennis shoes is not recommended, you need boots to leverage the shifter to the next gear. It helped a lot when a new clutch was installed, but it is not a smooth shifting tramsmission. It adds to the character of the bike.
We did a compression tests on the engine at 55,000 miles, both cylinders were in the mid 140's. I thought that was pretty good for an air cooled engine.
Quote from: "cascadetiger"We did a compression tests on the engine at 55,000 miles, both cylinders were in the mid 140's. I thought that was pretty good for an air cooled engine.
Agreed. My condemnation of the bike earlier has been reversed based on new evidence:
I've discovered what caused the infant tranny death on my XB. You can't see it in the picture above but the seal on the transmission shaft (the big fat shaft in the left side of the picture with the black center, that black center being the seal) was damaged and let water leak in. Someone must have hit it with a hammer or a rock or something. Maybe a P.O. beat on it trying to put a different sized sprocket or something.
This caused everything inside to fail in a couple of years of riding. The bearings, two gears and two shifter dogs are gone. Had a hackuva time splitting the cases because 5th gear was fuzed to the left side of the case with corrosion. Surprised it didn't cause some catastrophic failure.
In hindsight it might have been better to buy a new used engine and either sold this one for salvage or something. My costs are going to somewhat exceed the cost of a used engine. The only advantage of not going that route is perhaps avoiding getting unlucky with a used engine.
Right now since the engine is almost totally disassembled, I'm doing rings, oil pump drive and lifters while I'm in here. The only thing I'm not doing is valves, rockers, pushrods and cam gears all which look good.
Hey Col - Glad the tear down & diagnosis completed...sorry it ended up being on the high side of the cost equation. However...you should have a very reliable & fun 'twisty road' bike at the end of it all. Again, on the upside - the engine looks good - If you had gone the used engine route you may / maynot have been pleased. It's a crap shoot, unless you really know the engine's history. I admire your mechanical ingenuity, in tackling the great unknown. Will await test ride report. Im in process of getting the KLR running, after sitting for a year. Work isnt difficult, but frozen garage is a real handicap - fingers don't work right. Neglect never seems to work out in ones favor. Toodles, j
Good luck with the KLR. Let's hope the XB comes out of it as good as it should. I would never have tried this without the crowd here. Frankly without the Internet and Google, I would never have had the confidence to do this with just a manual.
Here's the old main transmission drive gear for the XB9S:
(http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_bNWCp21GtiE/TVnN3PtF5XI/AAAAAAAAAsw/SNeBrTDN7qM/s512/IMG_20110214_174919.jpg)
Here's the new one:
(http://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_bNWCp21GtiE/TVnOb88Y5ZI/AAAAAAAAAs0/SPc-EwDTCy0/s512/IMG_20110214_174905.jpg)
Tiggers have seals on the tranny too, but they aren't this big and they aren't this odd and they tend to be near the bottom of the tranny, not the middle like this. All three of these facts tend to make such a leak on your tigger less catastrophic. Even over time.