Hi All,
Just throwing a general question out there:
From experience, are there any oil burning issues related to the 955i engine ? i.e. yes it can use a lot or never had to top it up.
My bikes just gone over the 1000 mile mark now and it had its 500 mile service at errr 500 miles :roll: , but checking the oil this morning I noticed the level had dropped to just over half on the dip stick.
No smoke or anything like that has been experienced, so I was just a wondering if anybody knew of any issues (like to keep on top of these things before they become a problem)
Most likely its still been using a bit whilst running in.
Anyway will top it up at the weekend and continue to check it.
8)
I've got close to 3000 miles on my '05 Tiger and the level has not dropped.
RaiderJunky
New 05 Tiger in July has now done 5.5k miles. Only recently (last 1.5k mls) have I had to "top up" - twice, hhmmmmmmm
Regards
Tim
I topped up yesterday for the first time in 5000 miles. The 955i doesn't seem to burn oil like BMW's.
My previous Tiger, bought S/H, did use a little oil. First bike I ever owned that did. However, my new one now has over 4,000 miles on it and I don't think it's used a drop. Could it be the running-in process I've used on this one from new? Probably.
The two 900i's i had didn't burn a drop and neither did the 955 that i've got but last year on a very hot two trip between Italy and Spain it used about half liter which i wasn't to happy about but considering that we never had a day under 35c and most of the time the bike was running between 90 and 130 then guess i've no complaints.
Chris
In 22500 miles mine has never needed topping up between services.
My 04 has 17,000kms and doesn't burn a drop of Molil 1.
Same thing with my Tiger (2004) I noticed clutch was different and third gear would sometimes not want to engage. I checked the oil level and noticed it low but it couldn't be low because it was just serviced, it's first 500 miles. I did an oil change myself with the recomended synthetic oil and have not had a problem since (4500 miles). I've been to Ensenada twice and what a wondurfull ride it's been.
My Tiger has been using oil - about 1 litre in 5000 miles. I mentioned it to the dealer when it went in for its 6k service recently. They immediately suspected a poor fit in the crankcase 'centrifugal breather seal' - apparantly they're not always fitted correctly at Hinckley and usually explain excessive oil consumption in low milage 955s. A quick inspection suggested this was the problem and the seal was replaced under warranty - it's located inside the LH side engine cover and breathes up into the airbox. Too early to tell whether it has made any difference, but the dealer seemed pretty confident this would cure the problem....have yours checked Mr M.
Quote from: "tigerjohn"They immediately suspected a poor fit in the crankcase 'centrifugal breather seal' - apparantly they're not always fitted correctly at Hinckley and usually explain excessive oil consumption in low milage 955s. A quick inspection suggested this was the problem and the seal was replaced under warranty
That is damn good information, thanks a million for posting.
2003 model has been using oil at about 1 pint per 1,000 miles for the past 2,000 miles, previously used virtually none. Milage is now 13,000 miles. I've complained to the dealer, took it in especially for them to have a look, "look" being the operative word. Agreed to monitor and return for 12,000 service. Did this, oil consumption remained the same, they did nothing, and don't view it as being excessive enough to warrant any action ! Not happy about it, have also contacted Triumph, but again they don't view it as excessive.
2003 model has been using oil at about 1 pint per 1,000 miles for the past 2,000 miles, previously used virtually none. Milage is now 13,000 miles. I've complained to the dealer, took it in especially for them to have a look, "look" being the operative word. Agreed to monitor and return for 12,000 service. Did this, oil consumption remained the same, they did nothing, and don't view it as being excessive enough to warrant any action ! Not happy about it, have also contacted Triumph, but again they don't view it as excessive.
Not a dropped lost in the last 3000 miles on my '05 model.
Thanks for the all the replys.
Sorry I havent been around to respond - but I can tell you that since topping up it has stayed nice and level.
Still keeping an eye on it though.
:roll:
Quote from: "tigerjohn". They immediately suspected a poor fit in the crankcase 'centrifugal breather seal' - apparantly they're not always fitted correctly at Hinckley and usually explain excessive oil consumption in low milage 955s. A quick inspection suggested this was the problem and the seal was replaced under warranty - it's located inside the LH side engine cover and breathes up into the airbox. Too early to tell whether it has made any difference, but the dealer seemed pretty confident this would cure the problem....have yours checked Mr M.
Did this cure the problem?
Anyone else had oil troubles?
Mine seems to be using some, at 3000 miles, the dealer says he's never had oil problems with a 955i
Mine was having problems starting at about 30,000 miles. Now at 53,000 I finally changed the seal and it looks like the problem may be gone. No usage in 500 miles. The seal was installed upside down in my 01 955 Tiger.
My injected Tiger 900 was using a little oil at around the 26,000 mile mark, about 200ml per thousand miles. Since then it's just stopped using any oil, as far as I can tell, and it just about to hit 35,000 miles.
I have a 2005 955i Tiger. The previous owner was open about the fact that it was using a little oil and was suspecting that the crankcase breather seal was backwards / leaking. He bought the new seal and gasket but he never installed it.
I'm looking at the parts, the BikeBandit diagram, and my shop manual diagram and I'm still having a very hard time visualizing this seals home and how it could be backwards. The breather plate and gasket are shown off to the side of the diagram (#20). I don't see the plate and gasket mounting point, or any mention of the seal.
http://www.bikebandit.com/showschematic/m17645sch568703 (http://www.bikebandit.com/showschematic/m17645sch568703)
Anyone have a picture, or maybe able to describe it a bit more?
I followed the air box breather hose back down to a cover (alternator cover?) on the left hand side of the bike. I also see the wires coming out of it. I have to pull my crash bars to get to it so before I go through this I just want to understand a bit more what I'm getting into, and if it's even necessary.
After looking at this diagram, I'm wondering if the seal is not actually in the alternator cover? (#19)
http://www.bikebandit.com/showschematic/m17645sch568700 (http://www.bikebandit.com/showschematic/m17645sch568700)
I'm wondering if I don't need the breather gasket, but a new alternator gasket along with the breather seal?
I have 33K on my 02 Tiger. Normal riding around town the oil level remains within limits oil change to oil change. However during my annual romp in the Georgia, Tenn. mountains I do have to top it off. This may be because of the hi rpms used in second and third gears as we enjoy all the mountain roads offer.
Ok the dealer sorta confirmed the breather seal is behind the alternator cover. Sucks because that's another $12 gasket and I have to pull the crash bars (Happy Trail) to get to it.
But I can't get an answer out of anyone how to tell of the current seal is in upside down or not, or how the new one should go in right side up.
The dealer says I'd have to bring it in... :(
the seal will usually be open to the side that is wet. Look at Bike bandit for a parts schematic, you might be able to tell from that.
OK, I see you have already done the Bk Bndt thing, nothing definable anyhoo. Just observe how you disassemble and reverse as the manual says (yeah, right). This is the subject covered well on RAT forum for Tigers. I replaced mine (2000' 885 model)at 85k and it stopped the consumption problem, as well as running towards the lower fill line of the oil sight glass.
22: SEAL, OIL, ROTARY
ENG NO 232538 AND BELOW 5576865-001 (on the engine cover schematic)
Right, that is the exact part I have, Triumph # TMT3600089
The BikeBandit diagram shows it as a ring, but this is what it looks like...
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r143/Jaredcm1/Tiger/DSCN0709.jpg) (http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r143/Jaredcm1/Tiger/DSCN0710.jpg)
I'm not sure how this gets installed backwards, and since I don't know for SURE mine is backwards I was looking for some reference for it's proper orientation.
The guy I bought the bike from gave me the seal and the breather gasket, wonder if I can trade it for the alternator gasket at the dealer.
Actually I don't know what gasket this is...
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r143/Jaredcm1/Tiger/DSCN0711.jpg)
Try calling the folks at Team Triumph in Wisconsin. They helped talk me through a few things in the past. Very helpful!
Evil Betty, you must have a 2000 model Tigger or earlier.
The gasket you purchased is for the 955 motor. 885,855 motors have a round alternator cover with seven 6mm around the radius. If you ordered the "kit" it probably comes for the 955s. I see a kit for those but not for the 885 and previous. Funny how anal my parts man is about having the correct vin # so as not to make this type of mistake.
The seal you have has a pilot inserted to keep the seal from deforming until it is set in the case cover. That is how mine came as well. After removing the case fasteners tap the edge with a plastic or hard rubber hammer to break the gasket seal loose if necessary (an unopened beer can works as well). Pull the case straight out, you may have some small amount of oil drible out but it shouldn't be much. There will be the seal in the case cover and a rotary filter on the end of the crankshaft. A seal remover tool is best here, but a # 3 flat blade screw driver can be used with slow pressure application. Note the direction the flat side of the seal is facing and place the new seal likewise. I tap mine in with a just undersize shallow socket. You will remove the pilot before inserting the seal, like I mentioned it is just to maintain the seal during shipment till ready to install.
You will probably need the correct gasket but could get lucky and not tear the original. Even with a new gasket my cover mists a slight amount of oil over time and I have retorqued the fasteners as well.
I have used RTV silicone seal or Yamabond 4 to repair torn gaskets to good end if you decide not to wait for the right part.
Happy wrenching!
well once again I review your posts and find you do have an '05. I see a different # of mounting holes on the Bk Bndt fiche fro your picture, and it shows the same part for all years '01 to '08 so the gasket is certainly not off a Tiger. I looked at the opposite side gaskets as well, not close.
I went into the dealership today. They claim the gasket was maybe to an 885, then they sold me the correct alternator gasket.
BUT they didn't say a word about that green piece being a pilot! That makes SO much sense!
I took it down to the service shop and asked for some help on what direction is should be installed. He grabbed it by the tube end and said it went into the case cover from the opposite end. I'm not an idiot but after I opened up the case I might have thought something wasn't right when the old one didn't have the green part on it! LOL.
Thanks! This helps a lot!
That gasket sure looks like it would fit the timing cover of my 2002 Bonneville ! :shock:
that was my next thught, that the letters stamp on the back was like those #**!% meriden T-whatevers that routinly lubricated my shop floor.
I also have found while researching this query that a rotary oil breather change occurred during the transition from 855 >885 >955 motors. Only 885s had them! They sit on the left side of the crank outboard the altenator and their job seems to be to grow old and sling oil up into the airbox(kidding).
Are you saying that the oil seal in my 2005 955 is likely not causing the oil in my airbox?
no ,no, it's the same problem of the seal being bad it's just a different reason for seal failure.
I'm going to have to completely pull the cover and remove the hose and harness am I not? I can't imagine there is any way around it with if I'm going to have to pry and press.
I'm trying to get the cover off but my Happy Trail crash bars are making it difficult. I knew I was going to have to pull the left side bar, but it looks now like I'm going to have to pull the plate that it and the skid plate connect to. It's covering the bottom 1/3" of the alternator cover.
There are two bolts anchoring it to the bottom of the engine just behind the alternator cover on the bottom. First I tried a 12mm but it was a bit loose so I tried a 11mm and a 7/16" and neither fit. I gave it another go with the 12mm carefully got them turning. Once one was a couple turns out oil started to ooze from it.
I decided to stop till I got your thoughts.
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r143/Jaredcm1/Tiger/DSCN0725-1.jpg)
Click Here for Larger Image (http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r143/Jaredcm1/Tiger/DSCN0725.jpg)
*Man taking bikes of my bike make me sick. I never got enough warm weather to properly wash it since I got it, and it's freaking filthy...
The majority of replies on the RAT forum suggest that Synthetic oil doesn't require topping up anywhere near like the Semi I am using. I will be changing to full synthetic on the next change.
Well I finally got the crash bar out of the way enough to pull the alternator cover. I realized after I had it free I was going to have to pull the stator completely out of the cover before I could work on it.
Using a flat blade I pulled the old seal out pretty easily but it destroyed it in the process.
I moved on to installing the new seal. I set it in place and then used a slightly undersized socket to tap it in, making a real effort to keep it moving straight. Never the less it went in a little crooked, and all efforts to tap it straight have failed. It's only a "little" cock-eyed. Think it will be OK or do I need to shell out another $35? Because I don't think I can get it back out without destroying it as well.
The original seal looked flawless, and I noticed using the socket marred the surface of the new one a little but that's cosmetic, right?
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r143/Jaredcm1/DSCN0731.jpg)
Depending on what you guys have to say about the above, I'm ready to seal it back up.
This will be the first time I have messed with silicone sealant with a gasket before. If memory serves there all all kinds to choose from. I need to seal the stator wire grommet, and then later the cam cover points that call for it.
What kind should I buy?
I'm also trying to clean off the old gasket and silicone. What's the best method? Scrapping + Brake Cleaner? Or is there a better solvent to use to remove silicone?
Ooohh. Kinked and scraped! Well, you won't know til you try it. It wasn't that big a chore to pull the cover off was it? Give her a try and repeat as necessary. The best sealer out there is Yamabond 4 (Yamaha accessory), a semidrying sealant that is specifically for engine cases where oil may be present. I've used it for years with total success. I think there is a copy out there now since it's been 30+ years of production but I don't know the exact name. Far better than sillycon sealant.
Actually it was by far the most laborious and frustrating repair I have done so far! :x Having to pull so much of the crash bars, the oil spillage, then trying one handed to remove the stator wire and then the stator.
And I still have cleaning up all this sealant and putting it all back together to look forward to. I have a spacer that fell out of the frame from one of the crash bar mounts while I was beating on the alternator cover. No idea where it came from.
And it may turn out that nothing was wrong with the seal and the previous owner was just running the wrong oil through it... :?
Oh well... lesson learned :)
Looks like Yamabond 4 is discontinued. I keep seeing this everywhere.
QuoteDiscontinued By Yamaha, Replaced By Three Bond TB1194
yes yes Three Bond is the same and is very good stuff !
Thanks again Mustang. Stretch, yourself, and others can't be thanked enough for all your help. Good community support makes owning a Tiger fun when you can't be on the road.
:D :D :D :D
My 03 has done 9000 miles and still uses oil. I reckon around half a litre per 500 miles which seems a lot to me.
Someone suggested switch to semi which was slightly better but didn't run as well so I switched back. I will get the crankcase breather seal looked at next service.
Anything else to get checked? It doesn't smoke or leak, but I am told when I nail it, a burst of black smoke comes out briefly.
Cheers
DiggerT
Quote from: "diggerT"Anything else to get checked? It doesn't smoke or leak, but I am told when I nail it, a burst of black smoke comes out briefly.
Cheers
DiggerT
black smoke is indicative of too rich a fuel mixture , whereas white smoke is oil burning .
You can verify if the problem is in breather oil consumption by any considerable oil quantity in the airbox. Easiest is to disconnect the oil breather line that passes from the left side crank end cover vertically up to the let side of the airbox, if it mists oil visually, its the seal. Otherwise if it is not evident here, remove the inline plug located at the end of airbox drain line that exits from the right rear of the airbox and travels the frame down the right side ending in the swingarm area. Mine started consuming oil @ 85k and I finally pulled this plug after so much oil pooled in the airbox that I could see excess leaking out the intake/ airbox joint. About 50cc drained out the line and I had quite a mess to clean out of the airbox. As well, with that much oil going through the motor I had much darker exhaust than the grey an oil consumption problem would indicte from typical ring blowby or valve seal leak. The end result is that I have just had the valves and seats reground because of carbon build up. The rings are still very tight, original hone marks visible in the cylinders and now producing 150psi on all bores.
Long litany but I am impressed with the durability of components other than this oil breather problem that has continued through several generations of the Tiger motor from 885 through, I believe, the '06 models.
I had some evidence of oil in my air box for sure. I just got done torquing everything up but I won't be able to start riding it for a few more weeks yet. Should have the new fuel fitting this week, and hopefully the fairing back from paint soon after that!
When I was putting the alternator cover back on I forgot how much magnetism was involved when the stator came near the rotor. It sucked it right out of my hand. It dawned on me after I was done putting it back that I could have potentially damaged the seal all over again with that, but I guess I'll find out :)
Update: I'm still "loosing" oil. About 3 qts in 2000 miles.
Did the TB balance last week. Didn't notice any oil in the air box this time.
(sigh)
Evlbty, I've had a real drawn out experience on the oil consumption thing i will expand on later, gotta run now but it is probably not what you want to hear! BTW how many miles and ridng style (effort) do you have?
Okay,
so I continued to experience oil consumption after my replacement of the left hand crank oil breather seal. Thinking I had damaged it on installation I discovered from a longtime tech that the breather disc itself can have worn ends due to my high mileage (100k+ of flogging molly) I then replaced both (80$ or so).
Oil use continued, my machinist friend then said "you have a broken piston land below the compression ring creating case pressure forcing oil out the seal".
Tore the motor down, checked compression @ #1 cyl. 180psi, #2 170psi and #3 45psi. Saw excessive black carbon on head and piston crowns and sure enough #3 had no land on the intake side of piston with mild scarring on the cylinder wall where the missing piece had been. OK, ordered new piston kit and cylinder for 275$ and as I removed to clean the other pistons the rear piece of their lands FELL out! Although no discernible cylinder wall damage.
This bike had been ridden home!
R&R all cylinders, pistons now at 900$ parts cost ( I perform all my maint...Cheap sob).
Yikes... how far do you have to tear down to do the compression test? I thought it was done from the plugs.
My bike has 25400 on it. I have no idea how to classify how I ride. I don't race it but I like to get on the throttle now and then. But that's only been for the last 300 miles since I installed the new exhaust :)
You are right, only batty box, front flasher mounts, gas tank , and airbox need be removed to check compression. I was going in to fully inspect the top end in any case as the previous valve reseat had not fixed the consumption problem. Triumph make this a comparably easy motor to work on what with the wet liners. They pull directly out of the cases so no reason to remove the motor from frame.
A motorboat mechanic (yeah, I know) once told me that one of the main reasons for ring land failure is a buildup of carbon between the rings and the lands. The carbon gets in there and prevents the ring from moving up and down evenly in the groove. In a spot where excess carbon builds up under a ring, the land in that spot has more pressure exerted on it than the rest of the land. Over time, the cyclic motion of the ring minutely moving up and down in the groove, and the pressure of the combustion stroke, can weaken and crack the land where the carbon has become too thick.
Perhaps a few tankfuls of Seafoam once a year would help prevent excess carbon buildup under the rings.
Just a thought.
I use it in the fuel now and then. But I've heard of people putting it in the oil... that always kind of makes me nervous. I've used flush agents in the past but you're talking 20 minutes of idle, not running miles on it.
Has anyone done that?
I don't think Seafoam in the engine oil would be required unless you had a sticking hydraulic valve lifter (not a worry on a Tiger) or if you had a lot of sludge built up under the valve cover. With modern high-detergent and/or synthetic oils, additives usually aren't needed. And in many cases, they are strictly proscribed by both engine and oil manufacturers.
continuing;
The bike is oil tight, great performance and fit to trek again, But on offer of $$ I have whored out and sold moto tigre (long sigh..) to a great home and as I was unable to find another Tiger 04 or later for a price palatable.
I found a test mule 05 GS from a firm building lower ratio final drive units, fuel and ignition mapping chips and purchased same for 9 beans. With only 885 miles on the clock. How could I pass it up?
So as I pass through the chunnel and continue my way to southern lattitiudes I bid a cheerio for now to Hinckley production for the next 100k +.
Hey thanks Darmah, and good luck with the new bike!