So I had the telltale surging and thought that I would try the TPS per the sticky post. Went great until I started it up and drove it around after. First off the idle seemed a bit high once it warmed up - maybe 1500 rpms. Then once I put it in gear with the clutch lever pulled in it jumps to about 2000 rpms. So I took it for a ride to see what that would be like and if it was snatchy before it is downright jerky now! I disassembled/assembled with the triumph manual and I don't think I forgot anything. Do I need to take it to the dealer to have the TPS reset now? Most post I read say this isnt required.
Any suggestions?
Thanks
Andy
Ive never done this so cant really comment, in Bixxer Bobs original post he didnt need to reset the closed position, but the Haynes Manual says on replacing it always needs reseting by Triumph Diagnostics, so, you could try a 12 Min Tune, but I dont know whether that will reset it or not, somebody will be along soon with more knowledge on this im sure.
If the TPS has been disturbed or replaced, it really needs does resetting. Essentially, a reset is saying to the ECU, "the voltage you're reading right now is the throttle closed position". A fraction of a volt difference from old setting to new and the ECU is going to be fed duff information...
Quote from: "ChazzyB"If the TPS has been disturbed or replaced, it really needs does resetting. Essentially, a reset is saying to the ECU, "the voltage you're reading right now is the throttle closed position". A fraction of a volt difference from old setting to new and the ECU is going to be fed duff information...
That sounds right. Does this need to be done by the dealer or is there another way (i.e. 12 minute tune)?
try the 12 minute tune it's easy enuff to do .................
start the bike
let it idle
after the fans turn on let it idle for 12 minutes
touch nothing , in other words don't give the ecu any inputs like brake clutch etc
shut it off with the key
all sensors will be reset to default
now it will start relearning trim settings as you ride
Quote from: "Mustang"try the 12 minute tune it's easy enuff to do .................
start the bike
let it idle
after the fans turn on let it idle for 12 minutes
touch nothing , in other words don't give the ecu any inputs like brake clutch etc
shut it off with the key
all sensors will be reset to default
now it will start relearning trim settings as you ride
Thanks Mustang, I'll do that in the morning. I also just found the cable that hooks to the OBD port on this bike in the box of stuff from the PO. The program download looks like a chore...
12 minute tune didn't work.
Couple of options here, ride the bike around for a few days going through cycle of hot cold and run ie, normal use, as it takes a while for the ecu to learn, it is a bit on the slow side.
Second is if you have the OBD lead and access to a laptop then down load TuneECU and reset the TPS that way, after all it is free and not as complicated as it looks, just follow the instructions for the part you are doing as reading all can confuse.
Ok so, I reset the tps using the tune ecu software and that fixed the high idle issue. I have been driving it around and it really has not gotten any better as fas as the hesitation at constant throttle. If I roll on the throttle it goes away and the bike pulls well. If I am just cruising, especially at lower speeds, it hesitates and jerks around like crazy. Any suggestions? I am now able to work in the tuneecu software so thats an option but i really don't feel comfortable with it yet to mess around.
Andy
If it is worse after you changed the TPS and resettting the TPS position didn't solve it, then it's one of three things:
a. Somehow, you reset the trims. riding it will re-learn then in time.
b. You left a sensor or pipe off when you put it back together.
c. You have an air leak now that you didn't have before.
about friggin time you showed up ................
:wave bob
:lol:
Thanks! What with broadband thats slower than dial-up, learning about 28mm gravity feed solid fuel heating systems, trying to work out when and when not the new building regs apply to listed buildings and trying to prevent the son-in-law blowing the house up (he lit the wood burner without first enabling the circulation pump - boiled the heat exchanger and damn near blew us all to hell) it's been busy.
I should be able to pop in a bit more in future if the telephone company ever get this damn broadband fixed. I have a sync speed of 4.5mb but the IP profile is locked down to 135kbps and won't budge.
Sorry for the hijack....
Quote from: "mtrdrms"Ok so, I reset the tps using the tune ecu software and that fixed the high idle issue. I have been driving it around and it really has not gotten any better as fas as the hesitation at constant throttle. If I roll on the throttle it goes away and the bike pulls well. If I am just cruising, especially at lower speeds, it hesitates and jerks around like crazy. Any suggestions? I am now able to work in the tuneecu software so thats an option but i really don't feel comfortable with it yet to mess around.
Andy
OK need a few more details now.
When the TPS was replaced was the throttle body to head gasket replaced?
What year, mileage, service frequency, any mods like exhaust.
What map is installed, this is on TuneEcu on the maps page ECU INFO, should be a 5 figure number.
On the TEST page what is the Long Term Fuel Trim set to?
On the Diagnostics page what is the TPS voltage?
Has this problem just occured or has it developed?
Quote from: "Bixxer Bob":lol:
Thanks! What with broadband thats slower than dial-up, learning about 28mm gravity feed solid fuel heating systems, trying to work out when and when not the new building regs apply to listed buildings and trying to prevent the son-in-law blowing the house up (he lit the wood burner without first enabling the circulation pump - boiled the heat exchanger and damn near blew us all to hell) it's been busy.
I should be able to pop in a bit more in future if the telephone company ever get this damn broadband fixed. I have a sync speed of 4.5mb but the IP profile is locked down to 135kbps and won't budge.
Sorry for the hijack....
Hi BB
Good too see you back again,
Those systems can be testing but at least you had thermo syphon to fall back on so wood burner hopefully didn't get too stressed!!
Lots to be said for blow off valves.
No hijack at all good to see ya. :wave
All good points if you're trying to fix surging MG, but the clue for this one is in the original post:
Quote from: "mtrdrms"... So I took it for a ride to see what that would be like and if it was snatchy before it is downright jerky now! ...
Somehow he made it worse so he needs to put that right first, then work on the surging :wink:
I'll pop in again soon and see how you're getting on :lol:
Good point there BB, the 500rpm jump pulling the clutch in kind of threw me a bit.
You got it right getting him to do the TPS reset first MG as that would have been my first advice for most of the probs he describes. My money now is on a gasket leak. The OEM throttle body bolts are crap and airleaks are well known (look on the 955i Daytona forum). I used a thin smear of silicon gasket goo when I did mine.
Most definately a good tip about the gasket goo.
Had a few of these through my place lately and sealed all with Yamabond. Been useing for years and has never let me down. A bit expensive to buy and tricky to store but I figured if it's good enough for Yamaha to build their engines with.....Can also get the same stuff in different colours from different big four Jap builders.
Wow if I had known there was so many responses so quick, I would have been back sooner.
So to answer some questions:
MG- the map is 9849 and the TPS voltage was .65. All of the spots for long term fuel trim were not accessable and gave no readings.
This issue has always been but is now worse. Although I think it may be getting better as time goes on but maybe I am just getting used to it. I did replace the gasket and torqued the TB bolts from the inside out but I could see where the symptoms point to an air leak. Maybe I didn't seat the airbox fully? I plugged in all sensors that I disconnected and used dielectric grease. There are no DTC's stored and no CEL. Im gonna be bummed if I have to pull the throttle bodies again...
Andy
pic of screen capture. Note the long term trim not illuminated
You appear to have a very early map, 9849 doesnt even come up in the list of tunes, 9891 is about the lowest I can see, though I did see a 9852 but that was for speed triples I think.
Check your Vin Number against the tune list and download the appropriate tune.
Do you know any of the previous history for this bike? Engine swap a possibility?
Interesting. I'll download a new map today. I don't really know much about the history of the bike. I am the third owner and the second owner only had it a year. The first owner put 50k miles on it and appeared to maintain it well but use it (couple of trips to the artic circle I am told).
Anyway the frame number is SMT700IH8XJ081560 and the engine number is 00EHX081738. Sound fishy?
UPDATE:
So I found an issue a few weeks back. One of the hoses popped off the IAC (?) and was sucking air into the thottle body causing it to run poorly. So while I was in there to find out what was going on, I resealed the thottle bodies with Hondabond and cleaned the electrical connections again. The only issue is the bike is still snatchy! It runs just like it did before the TPS replacement. Is there something else I should check? I put about 250 miles a week on the bike and its annoying and can't be good for the bike.
Andy
I too have the same problems...... however, I now have a TPS - loaned very kindly by Chris Canning (on here) and I also now have the Tune ECU setup.
I bought my bike with nearly 45k (Miles) on the clock and I cover almost 500 miles a week on mine.
I fitted a scottoiler a few weeks ago but made sure all joints were air tight by using superglue as a sealant and then going over that with self amalgamating tape - awesome stuff but a bugger to get back off again, so don't put it anywhere where you may want to!!
I work long hours Mon to Thurs and so tomorrow is Friday and I can't wait to get in the garage and do some 'snoopin' on my ECU.
Gonna check all the gaskets and pipes now to after reading the thread above, more SA tape on the pipes, me thinks.
Can't get over how helpful the guys are on this forum, keep up the good work and I will keep you informed of my discoveries - I will probably be back tomorrow with more questions......
Thanks all
Peds
Ref the snatchiness; you'd do a lot worse than read Metalguru's notes on ECU trim settings here:
http://tigertriple.com/forum/index.php/topic,9326 (http://tigertriple.com/forum/index.php/topic,9326)
He's got his running pretty well. Mine runs not perfect but pretty good these days on a combination of home grown map and some trim tweaks.
And it's a lot cheaper than swapping parts in the hope that you'll fix it. The bits I've changed (TPS, TB gasket, crank sensor) I made sure they were actually U/S before I parted with cash but to do that I used an oscilloscope. The gasket needed changing as part of the TPS process anyway. I can send you a copy of my map but that on it's own won't fix it, you need to do the trims. Good luck.
The TPS was loaned to me, do you reckon that I would be better off going through the diagnostics on my ECU first? Looking at the trim setings and/or updating the maps?
Like I said, as yet, I don't have a clue how the bike is set up but will be having a look tomorrow.
Unless you know the TPS is faulty I'd leave it be. It's basically a potentiometer in a plastic case. You know when the volume knob on an old radio crackles as you move it? Well that's caused by dirt or wear on the resistance track that the wiper moves over. In the case of my TPS, it was making the equivalent of those crackles, but they were confusing the ECU because it wasn't getting a clean signal.
You'll be looking at the Tune ECU a while before it starts to make any sense, so in your place I'd do the following (assuming your IACV and hosework is in tip top, leak-free condition and the tube connecting the airbox to the ECU is also in good nick and leak-free (DO NOT blow down it, but sucking gently is ok :lol: ) :
Do the 12 minute tune. If it works, great, if not continue:
Connect TuneECU
Back up your existing tune (so you can go back to square one...)
Identify which tune you have and make sure it's the right one for your VIN number.
Reload the tune to eliminate any possibility that it's corrupt.
Try it out. If it's still bad, go to Metalguru's note on trims and tweak accordingly.
If it's good, but gradually goes back to jerking over a day or two, disable the O2 sensor and go again.
Is the O2 sensor disabled with the TuneECU program or do you have to physically disconnect it?
In the ECU map. If you just disconnect it you'll get the MIL light on and a fault code (unless you fit a bypass resistor but not worth the money).
But don't get ahead of yourself, one step at a time otherwise you'll never get to the bottom of it.
No Probs BB, I have no intentions of jumping in with both feet.......slowly, slowly, catchy monkey!! :D :D
My long term fuel trim reads -95.5% Seems a bit off from what Metalguru has...
Also forgot to mention it will lightly backfire on decel around 2-3k rpms. From my old dirtbike days I think this means that its running lean?
Alot of the gadgets on TuneECU I have just installed seem to be 'greyed-out' is this a normal thing? Have I missed something? Grrrr......
Quote from: "mtrdrms"My long term fuel trim reads -95.5% Seems a bit off from what Metalguru has...
Only "a bit" off ?????
Quote from: "mtrdrms"...it will lightly backfire on decel around 2-3k rpms. From my old dirtbike days I think this means that its running lean?
Correct.
Haha! Well without sounding snotty or dumb, how do I go about fixing my problem and what does the long term fuel trim setting mean?
Andy
Without wishing to hi-jack,
Start reading here....It may take some time.
http://tigertriple.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 26&start=0 (http://tigertriple.com/forum/index.php/topic,9326&start=0)
Quote from: "metalguru"Without wishing to hi-jack,
Start reading here....It may take some time.
http://tigertriple.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 26&start=0 (http://tigertriple.com/forum/index.php/topic,9326&start=0)
'
I already suggested he read your notes on that same link further up the page. Sometimes I feel like I'm talking to myself.... :lol:
Quote from: "Bixxer Bob"I already suggested he read your notes on that same link further up the page. Sometimes I feel like I'm talking to myself.... :lol:
Now where have I heard that before.......Think it may be the wife!!! :BangHead
Quote from: "mtrdrms"Haha! Well without sounding snotty or dumb, how do I go about fixing my problem and what does the long term fuel trim setting mean?
Andy
haven't heard for a while.
Wondering if you have fixed the problem yet or are still reading!!
The trouble with 885's on TuneEcu is the LTFT cannot be set and is greyed out unless it has changed on the newer versions. The way to change the mixture is by altering the map values or the Triumph tool has the facility to do this.
I think you may be looking at the IFT idle fuel trim as this is the only trim which will go to -95! This should start from 0. Try setting to a + value.
Just re-read your thread and if you haven't done it already, the TPS is reading .65. The limit is .66 so could be time for a change there, sorry for missing that bit.
Also according to Triumphs records your bike is still due for the recall work to be done!
Thanks for checking in metal. I haven't done all of my reading yet but the settings or running condition have not changed. I will post a copy of the screen in a few but it is the LTFT that reads -95.5. Ill have to check into those recalls also - what do they fix?
Andy
and now my TPS voltage reads .63