Ive just done a ride from Cardiff to Brighton. Stopped twice on the way, once for fuel the other to stretch my legs.
Got to my hotel, checked in, got details for car park and bike wouldn't start!
It done a similar thing on me a few months back, left it a few hours and it started fine. Hopefully it will do the same to get me going tomorrow.
Any ideas? I'm planning a Spanish trip in a few months and don't want this at every stop.
A similar problem that foxed me for a bit was the prop stand cut-out switch plunger sticking. :oops:
The side stand cutout?
Interesting, I did put the bike on its side stand whilst I checked in to the hotel.
It was an uneven ground as well, does it turn over but not start when he switch is engaged?
side stand switch = if in gear will crank when clutch is pulled but not start
clutch switch bad = will do nothing until clutch pulled in
and a bad relay for the safety circuit can cause both problems
kill switch on = nothing ..........no crank no start
bad wiring harness at key switch (common Girly problem)can cause same problem ........wiggle the wiring harness around where it comes out of switch
Sidestand - up or down will start but if stuck in will cut out when gear engaged.
Could be a bad connection to your clutch switch, inside the plastic shroud(ask me how I know)
More info would be helpful....like what happens when you turn the ignition on, does the pump prime?
what happens when you thumb the starter, does the solenoid engage (click)?
Thanks for the replies, I got on the bike this morning, put the side stand up and started it up - running fine.
THEN, rode for about a mile, went down quite a steep slope into an underground car park and the engine light came on and the bike went up in the revs. It seemed to settle after a bit and have turned it off and left it for now.
Could this just be going down the slope and the engine being cold and oil levels?
Or could it be related to my starting issue yesterday?
Hopefully it will be fine for my 3.5 hour ride home later today
The options above are viable but the first thing I'd do is open the fuel filler to make sure you don't have a vacum to make sure the breather isn't blocked.
Brrrr that was cold.
Took me around 4 hours to get from Brighton to Cardiff, not bad seeing as the temp was in the negatives!
Anyway, my bike started no problem in Brighton. But had the engine warning light on, I assumed this could be due to me draining the battery the night before.
So jumped on and rode, all fine just the light on. Filled up for fuel in Reading - started fine eml still on. Put some more socks on and started the bike again, fine but with eml still on.
Rode home from Reading keeping speed between 50-70mph to be sure and with lots of work on the motorway.
Got back to the garage, left bike for half hour, started it again and still got eml. Could this be due to the low temps? The temp needle hardly moved the whole time I rode home.
I've done some searches and they mention doing 3 engine cycles (hot to cold) but not had the conditions to do this. Any other ideas?
Quote from: "Goodwinsplace"Brrrr that was cold.
Took me around 4 hours to get from Brighton to Cardiff, not bad seeing as the temp was in the negatives!
Anyway, my bike started no problem in Brighton. But had the engine warning light on, I assumed this could be due to me draining the battery the night before.
So jumped on and rode, all fine just the light on. Filled up for fuel in Reading - started fine eml still on. Put some more socks on and started the bike again, fine but with eml still on.
Rode home from Reading keeping speed between 50-70mph to be sure and with lots of work on the motorway.
Got back to the garage, left bike for half hour, started it again and still got eml. Could this be due to the low temps? The temp needle hardly moved the whole time I rode home.
I've done some searches and they mention doing 3 engine cycles (hot to cold) but not had the conditions to do this. Any other ideas?
The 3 cold/warm cycles will only put the light out if the problem isnt there anymore, the light first went on when you were riding so you may have a different issue. You really need tune ecu or similar to read the codes and see whats up, Tune ECU will also put the light out, but It will come back again if the issue is still there.
Where are you in South Wales? Ive got a Tune ECU cable if you want to borrow it, the programmes free to download, have you a Laptop?
Quote from: "Goodwinsplace"Brrrr that was cold.
Took me around 4 hours to get from Brighton to Cardiff, not bad seeing as the temp was in the negatives!
Anyway, my bike started no problem in Brighton. But had the engine warning light on, I assumed this could be due to me draining the battery the night before.
So jumped on and rode, all fine just the light on. Filled up for fuel in Reading - started fine eml still on. Put some more socks on and started the bike again, fine but with eml still on.
Rode home from Reading keeping speed between 50-70mph to be sure and with lots of work on the motorway.
Got back to the garage, left bike for half hour, started it again and still got eml. Could this be due to the low temps? The temp needle hardly moved the whole time I rode home.
I've done some searches and they mention doing 3 engine cycles (hot to cold) but not had the conditions to do this. Any other ideas?
Your throwing spanners in works with things like the temp gauge,mine doesn't move much either unless it's a warm day.
I'd undo all the connections and spray with WD,useing abike at this time of year the shit(salt) will get into every nook and cranny,I even have to do it with my sprinter van.
How old is the battery,your a braver man than me,flat one day ride a distance another!!!,I've had a fair bit to do with batteries,if they've been flat in the end it'll come back to bite you in the backside,put a new one on,their cheap enough.
If that doesn't get the job done,get it into a dealer(Triumph),leaning how the bike ticks is great,but not in the middle of winter it ain't,I'd worry about extending your learning curve when it gets warmer.
There speaks the Sage..... :D
Timbox2 : I just had a look on ebay at the cables, is there a certain type you would suggest?
I'm near Cardiff and work by Treforest, borrowing would be good, but I'm also happy to buy a cable as it could be handy for long term use. What software is used? - TuneECU I expect from searches.
Chris Canning : I agree, the temp gauge doesn't move much even on a good run in fair weather. I'm just giving as much info as possible.
Not sure on battery age, I've only had the bike a few months. Will be changing in the next few weeks to be sure.
I've done a fair few miles on this bike now, this ride was more motorway miles than improving any 'learning curve' but the weather was something that was more of a challenge than I anticipated.
Quote from: "Goodwinsplace"Timbox2 : I just had a look on ebay at the cables, is there a certain type you would suggest?
I'm near Cardiff and work by Treforest, borrowing would be good, but I'm also happy to buy a cable as it could be handy for long term use. What software is used? - TuneECU I expect from searches.
OK mate, yes Tune ECU, website tells you the spec of the cable, they even have a link to a UK website that sells them, but a bit pricey, I found mine on ebay for £5. Check out the sticky Tune ECU thread on this forum for all sorts of info.
PS: Dont get hung up on some of the stuff others have done, If your bike is generally running ok , LEAVE WELL ALONE, you have been warned :lol:
Im up near Blackwood.
Quote from: "Timbox2".....Dont get hung up on some of the stuff others have done, If your bike is generally running ok , LEAVE WELL ALONE......
Very very good advice, although not an option when you ride a sick bike to the dealer who does such a good job fixing it it has to be trailered home, eh Tim?
Thanks guys. I've ordered a cable from a UK seller, Triumph spec. Cost £11 delivered but rather that than wait for china order.
I only want to take a look at error codes and diagnostics, if I ever need the mapping updated I will get wider experience on here or dealer.
I will take a look at that pinned thread, I've viewed some YouTube videos and looks pretty good stuff.
Quote from: "Bixxer Bob"Quote from: "Timbox2".....Dont get hung up on some of the stuff others have done, If your bike is generally running ok , LEAVE WELL ALONE......
Very very good advice, although not an option when you ride a sick bike to the dealer who does such a good job fixing it it has to be trailered home, eh Tim?
Thats the exception to the rule,over the years I've used Ideal garage,Pole Postion,Windy corner,Pure Triumph,even a Triumph dealer in Valencia all have changed maps,have had issues with various maps,but not the folk putting them in.
All a bit of side issue,cuz untill the gent puts a new battery in he'll not have aclue were he's going with anything else,if you have a battery thats gone flat and it's 18 months /2 years old or older bin it,it'll be a time bomb waiting to let you down.
Well apart from all the other stuff, I'm impressed by the trip from Brighton to Cardiff in sub-zero weather. How did you keep warm, other than extra socks, or didn't you? Heated grips? Any heated clothing? I rode from Chippenham to Truro the other day and it was not balmy.
Chris : New battery will go on same time as doing any tests.
Flaco : 3 pairs of socks, coat under my bike gear and Ski gloves - I didn't want to use my heated grips in the fear it would put more strain on the battery. First and last time I will ride any distance in that weather.
As I side issue,latch on to Timbox he's your neck of the woods,he's old!! :D not as old as me :( but old enough to have been there done that and will make life a lot easier,and if your one of those reprobates who doesn't work all the time :oops: ,might even drag you along to the Crossgates cafe at some time.
He had a really nice Tiger but has a terrible habit of wearing his bikes out :roll:
Quote from: "Chris Canning"Thats the exception to the rule,over the years I've used Ideal garage,Pole Postion,Windy corner,Pure Triumph,even a Triumph dealer in Valencia all have changed maps,have had issues with various maps,but not the folk putting them in...
Fair point Chris, but I didn't have money to go throwing at bad dealers till I found a good 'un. And I if I had found a good un' I wouldn't have learned so much about how this Tigger works either..... :lol:
Quote from: "Chris Canning"As I side issue,latch on to Timbox he's your neck of the woods,he's old!! :D not as old as me :( but old enough to have been there done that and will make life a lot easier,and if your one of those reprobates who doesn't work all the time :oops: ,might even drag you along to the Crossgates cafe at some time.
He had a really nice Tiger but has a terrible habit of wearing his bikes out :roll:
Ha ha, yep, feeling older all the time, to be fair to the Tiger at 50,000 miles, it was just getting loosened up, It was more of f.. it, I fancy something new and expensive. But as Chris says, if you need help or have a day off for Crossgates, Im yer man, though even Im not riding in this s..t at the moment.
Quote from: "Bixxer Bob"Quote from: "Chris Canning"Thats the exception to the rule,over the years I've used Ideal garage,Pole Postion,Windy corner,Pure Triumph,even a Triumph dealer in Valencia all have changed maps,have had issues with various maps,but not the folk putting them in...
Fair point Chris, but I didn't have money to go throwing at bad dealers till I found a good 'un. And I if I had found a good un' I wouldn't have learned so much about how this Tigger works either..... :lol:
Not so much throwing money at dealers more the list of how either they've gone bust or Triumph pulled the plug on e'm :D and I've had to move on,although all were talking about is shimming and maps.
Anyone have a rough price for a new battery? Just been quoted £60+ does that sound right?
Batteries off eBay alright??
Timbox : Any local suggestions? Thanks for the offer, will give you a shout if I need a second/experienced look at things.
Chris : Yep, he sounds a good guy. Sadly I do work so not always free to go out on the bike or cafe visits. :wink:
Quote from: "Goodwinsplace"Anyone have a rough price for a new battery? Just been quoted £60+ does that sound right?
Batteries off eBay alright??
Timbox : Any local suggestions?
Chris : Yep, he sounds a good guy. Sadly I do work so not always free to go out on the bike or cafe visits. :wink:
60 quid :shock: ,buy one off ebay 30 quid and a few pennies + post,don't be put off by having to put the acid in easy peesy,the important bit make sure it has a full charge when you fit it,over night on an optimate will do fine,if you don't you'll always be playing catchup.
To be honest the YTX14BS isn't enough battery for the Tiger,but short of doing what I did with an Odyssey 535 you'll just have to grin and bare it.
Cheers Chris, didn't think it was a good deal. It was a Triumph dealer so probably the extra for the carrier bag (+5p for the bag here in Wales).
Will look on eBay in a bit.
There you go from the sublime to the outrageous :D
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from= ... Categories (http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p0.m570.l1311&_nkw=ytx14bs&_sacat=See-All-Categories)
I did a group buy on another board for Odyssey batteries the PC680 is a fearsome thing but even they got knackered up because folk didn't look after e'm
Quote from: "Goodwinsplace"Anyone have a rough price for a new battery? Just been quoted £60+ does that sound right?
Batteries off eBay alright??
Timbox : Any local suggestions? Thanks for the offer, will give you a shout if I need a second/experienced look at things.
Chris : Yep, he sounds a good guy. Sadly I do work so not always free to go out on the bike or cafe visits. :wink:
Im lazy and dont tend to do much searching, I bought a Genuine Yuasa from a Honda dealer for mine, paid about £50 I think.
Do you know Genius Motorcycles in Cardiff? In a little back Street, Beresford Road Lane CF24 1QU, just off Newport Road, he used to be good for cheap stuff
I know Genius from back in the day of riding off road bikes around 15 years+ ago!
Thanks for the eBay search, I will take a look on the computer tonight rather than my phone.
Hopefully I can get a new battery (charged up) and cable for next week to take a look at it properly.
Thanks for all the replies on this thread.
Hey Goodwinsplace !! i got mine from this lot.........
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/220786340723? ... 3D1&_rdc=1 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/220786340723?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%3A80%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dp5197.m570.l1313%26_nkw%3D220786340723%26_sacat%3DSee-All-Categories%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1)
quick and cheap !! :D
KK
ps just spotted this, another option !!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRIUMPH-TIGER ... %26ps%3D63 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRIUMPH-TIGER-955-02-06-955I-EXIDE-HEAVY-DUTY-BATTERY-YTX14BS-/110808778113?_trksid=p5197.m185&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC.NPJS%26itu%3DI%252BUA%26otn%3D12%26pmod%3D220786340723%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63)
Bought one of these a few years ago for my Adventurer, and it does what it says on the tin.......exactly. Never had any problems with it and for a bike that is only ridden in the nice weather, it has started every time, even if left for weeks without a trickle charge.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HIGH-POWER-MO ... 53eb272628 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HIGH-POWER-MOTOBATT-MBTX14AU-SEALED-MOTORCYCLE-BATTERY-/360427497000?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item53eb272628)
Or to be model specific...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MotoBatt-Quad ... 2316f01ffe (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MotoBatt-QuadFlex-MBTX12U-Battery-Triumph-Tiger-955i-EFI-T709EN-2001-2006-/150708690942?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item2316f01ffe)
A lot depends on access to the battery,if you have ever owned a BM 1100s you'll know what I mean,access is zero impossible to bump so you need a top line battery no matter what the cost hence the mighty PC680.
But the Tiger is a different animal,access is seconds,and I've bumped a Tiger in the past,it was high altitude that caused the problem but still the same result,hang on I'm rambling :oops: ,I'd be far more inclined to buy a cheap battery,look after it and have it on a battery tender and bin it after a couple of years,those Motobat are good but I'd bet good money a Dynavolt would give it a good run for it's money at half the price,well the fact is you could buy 2!! for the same.
My trade connection sell Varta,realtively cheap and cheerful,and certainley the best warranty of any battery supplier I've ever come across,non of this we'll check it and let you know, they just change e'm,although have only had 3/4 duds in 300 sales.
I ended up buying one of these late last night:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/150676813016? ... 1439.l2649 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/150676813016?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649)
So with the cable and battery purchased just waiting for delivery next week, I will stick the battery on the optimate for a day to give it a good start - then get into looking at the TuneECU.
Thanks again for all the help and advice, I will probably post again when I get to the above stage for some tips.
Update: new battery installed, I conditioned it first using my optimiser.
Started it up and ran it for a few minutes, still with an engine light on. Turned it off.
About 15 minutes later I started it up again, no light. Rode it 10 minutes to go and wash all the salt off it from the Brighton trip. It rode fine for a few minutes then revved high, sticking around 3.5 - 4 rpm. Dropped down a few seconds later and then did it again after a few hundred meters.
Any ideas?? I'm guessing TuneECU isn't going to be much help as I don't have any light. I'm going to sort my laptop and hook it up anyway.
All this high revving at idle sounds to me like the IAVC (stepper motor) is sticking. I don't know whether TuneECU allows this but Tuneboy certainly has a function of testing the IACV.
Another possibility is of course air leaks in the pipes from the IACV to the throttle bodies.
Remember that idle speed is controlled by air being bled by the IACV into the throttle bodies downstream of the butterflies hence is independent of cable stops etc.
Just looking at the TuneECU website and it has something around IACV on the Tests description:
Triumph Sagem Double-click to "adjust IACV".
It is possible to reset these two last parameters by right-clicking the arrows active during the adjustment.
The documentation on the TuneECU website isn't the most descriptive (to me a n00b in this area) so not sure what the above test includes.
My bike is a 2003 so I'm guessing its a SAGEM ECU?
I have now installed my cable drivers and TuneECU running on a laptop so hopefully get it hooked upto my bike tomorrow afternoon to get some more details.
Does anyone have any tips on things I should test via TuneECU in any particular order?
How accessible is the IACV and pipes, to check. I have read some scary threads around springs, white plungers and IACV which I want to stay clear of. I'm happy to do some tests both computer and visual but if it's a large job happy to pay for it to be completed in a garage or by someone on here :wink: or even change the whole part out if affordable.
Edit: Just to add the high revving is also when I rode today, I could feel the bike pulling when I was riding, only in second gear at the time but it was noticeable via the pull so I dipped the clutch to confirm. The revs raised up, I pulled over, tapped it into neutral blipped the throttle and it settled down again.
Quote from: "iansoady"All this high revving at idle sounds to me like the IAVC (stepper motor) is sticking. I don't know whether TuneECU allows this but Tuneboy certainly has a function of testing the IACV.
Another possibility is of course air leaks in the pipes from the IACV to the throttle bodies.
Remember that idle speed is controlled by air being bled by the IACV into the throttle bodies downstream of the butterflies hence is independent of cable stops etc.
+1 with Ian on this one as the IACV pipes are the first place to start before even starting on tuneECU. Remove the tank and all will be revealed, 6mm silicone vacuum hose is the good replacement as the convoluted pipes do break up. Model shops can supply the pipe, 1mtr will be more than enough.
The IACV can be acessed once the airbox is off and a clean of its working faces, with a squirt of silicone lube (not WD40) will bring it back to life, then reset it on pc. Seems like alot of work to remove the tank and airbox but it all comes off in big lumps, there are reams writtten about proceedures on here, just keep reading BEFORE attempting any work.
+2, Mine did this(High Revving), was the stepper motor itself on mine and after trying to repair it which resulted in the springs round the garage routine I coughed up for a newun :oops:
I've already prepped myself around removing the tank and read the step by step on here. Just hope I can get into all the gaps.
Just a quick question:
Quote from: "metalguru"The IACV can be acessed once the airbox is off and a clean of its working faces, with a squirt of silicone lube (not WD40) will bring it back to life, then reset it on pc.
Most of what you posted was clear, I just didn't get the above, squirt the IACV? Then reset it via TuneECU - would this be TPS and ISCV adjustments?
Timbox - How much is a new one? I imagine this is going to be the case. As previously mentioned I have a trip planned for May and need to get this bike running properly before that.
Also is it a straight forward fit?
I agree with the above, but given that you've had battery problems, I'd reload the tune first. A corrupt tune will do all sorts of weird things and it's the easiest thing to do once you've got TuneECU up and running. In my case some years back the dealer hooked up a dud backup battery (ok, he probably didn't know it was dud or he wouldn't have done it, would he :? ) while loading a new tune for me. The dud battery dragged mine down and resulted in failing to blow in the new tune properly resulting in it not ticking over at all and running really rough on big throttle settings until 5k making it just about unrideable. After the dealer failing to fix it a second time, I eventually fixed it myself by simply fitting a new battery and blowing in the correct tune. Both Triumph, TuneECU and Tuneboy manuals warn about doing anything to the ECU unless the battery is fully charged because the write process to the ECU requires the input voltage to go high (11.7 volts if I remember rightly) and a poor battery can't do it. It means the write process is interrupted as the voltage drops and the tune either fails to load or is saved but incomplete. If it is incomplete, the ECU hangs when it gets to the corrupt line in the software then resets itself. Parts under its control, like the IACV, will stay in whatever position they were in when the reset occurred until the reset is complete. If the IACV was wide open when the hang occurs, then it will stay wide open for however many seconds it takes for the reset until the ECU regains control.
As MG says there's loads about it on here, but just to repeat, download and save your tune before you do anything so you can always go back. Make a note of all your trim readings, again so you can go back. Then identify the tune in your ECU. Download the correct one from TuneECU website, load it to TuneECU and blow it into your ECU. Try the bike out. If it's still crap, then start pulling it apart.
Took so long to write that I got overtaken by other posts :oops:
IACV was about £67 if I remember right. Tim and I have both done the exploding IACV bit as you've no doubt read, but you don't necessarily need one, do you? Do the cheap stuff first, like what I said above and what MG said about the pipes.
Thanks for that, the support on this forum is great, much appreciated.
I want to give TuneECU a blast and backup the current setup.
I don't know the full history of the bike, it's fairly comprehensive on it's service history. The bike has a Triumph race can fitted, I assume this will impact on the mapping.
One quick question, would doing a 12 minute tune be worthwhile before connecting TuneECU? To be honest I didn't let the bike warm up much today, more of a start and ride due to where I keep the bike at a friends garage.
I've not tried to see if I get any raise in revs when it's left to idle.
Doing the 12 min tune can't hurt if it'll run long enough without touching the throttle.
It's hard to pick what to do with so much advice, but not as hard as doing it for yourself when there's no advice to be had :lol:
For what it's worth, I'm with Tim and MG about the AICV and pipes, just wanted to make it clear that other things can have a similar effect so shouldn't be discounted, especially when it comes to parting with cash. Re-loading the Tune is daunting the first time, but Tim's nearby and he knows how so it can't hurt to get that out of the way first. Nothing like starting from a known good base :wink:
As previously said, this forum is a bit of a comfort blanket as well as a scary reality check as well :shock:
I have just double checked my documents, from what I can see my engine number is 179*** (wasn't sure about giving out full number), so have just looked at this tune on TuneECU website: 955cc Tiger From VIN # 124106 to VIN # 206546 / Sagem ECU MC1000
955cc Tiger to VIN 206546 with aftermarket exhaust (TORS) - Am I right?
So here is my thinking, get upto the bike tomorrow afternoon when my mate is around:
- 12 minute tune (hopefully without high revs).
- TuneECU, backup existing map
- TuneECU, update with the above tune (if confirmed on here correct)
- remove tank, check pipes
- remove tank, scratch head and worry I have just ruined a £3k bike, then look at how I go about changing stepper
Hopefully I won't get all the way to the end of the above points.
For VIN 170... and the TOR exhaust you want tune 10121.
TuneECU will tell you what tune is in there already. Then go as you say.
Quote from: "Goodwinsplace"Also is it a straight forward fit?
Very easy to remove and refit. I would take the opportunity to change the vacuum pipes as well when you're in there. Make sure you don't lose the little gasket on top of it that seals it against the airbox - this can be dislodged when you take the airbox off.
Tank is easy enough to remove but try to make sure there's not too much petrol in it (a gallon weighs around 10 lb) and make sure you have prepared somewhere to put it down before you lift it off. It's no joke dancing round the garage looking for somewhere big enough to park it - DAMHIK.
And the long extension you'll need to get too the bottom of the battery box and then the tank.
Quote from: "Goodwinsplace"I've already prepped myself around removing the tank and read the step by step on here. Just hope I can get into all the gaps.
Just a quick question:
Quote from: "metalguru"The IACV can be acessed once the airbox is off and a clean of its working faces, with a squirt of silicone lube (not WD40) will bring it back to life, then reset it on pc.
Most of what you posted was clear, I just didn't get the above, squirt the IACV? Then reset it via TuneECU - would this be TPS and ISCV adjustments?
Once the tank and airbox are off you will see a kydney shaped device with a foam like seal on it (dont lose the seal). This is the IACV. The centre of this is a round valve whose working faces are the outer edges, this moves up and down the tube, a bit like a tap, letting the correct amount of air to the engine for idle. The working faces need to be clean, (cotton bud damp with degreaser). Once clean give a squirt of silicon lube for ease of operation. IACV test can then be carried out on pc, along with TPS reset when tune is reloaded etc, the 12 min tune can be carried out but essentially carried out when adaptation occurs by the ecu, when reset is carried out and IACV set.
By the way have you got a dreaded Scottoiler?
If you have an alarm this will need to be in service mode as the battery and battery box will need to be removed, (Torx screw fitting in battery box).
Hello, a quick update.
Spent most of the afternoon working on the bike.
12 minute tune - ticked over fine for the full 30 minutes required to get to temp and do the tune.
Ran the bike and it felt a bit better but not right.
Hooked up to TuneECU and looked over the various pages, had error code P0118, checked the oil and it was a little lower than I would like.
It was supposed to have had a full service when I bought it back in October, but I doubt it was as full as required. I know it shouldn't burn that much oil, I've done a few big rides on it.
The program was saying 'No Map' and couldn't get one to display no matter what I tried. I loaded a new map with the TOR exhaust and downloaded it to the bike.
Topped the oil up, cleared the code and taken it for a 10 minute ride. All seems good, no code back, no engine light and no raised revs.
I hope to get it out for a proper test on the weekend if possible, it was a little late by the time we got to this stage.
Welcome any thoughts/comments.
The code is saying that the engine coolant temp is too low.
Judging by the time it took to bring the fan in sounds like the thermostat is history, best to replace the rad cap and coolant whilst there, flushing the system will help remove old coolant. (Thread in the How Toos).
Sounds like the thermostat has been the main fault as the ecu will think the engine is cold and supplying more fuel than needed when hot, so leading to over rich mixture when hot, hence hard to start. The high idle would be coupled with the same.
Sounds like the 'no map', (as long as 'read map' was used) could be the map in the ecu was corrupt and reloading has fixed it. Just need to fine tune the trims. The dud battery can do this, as BB explained very well.
Perhaps it would be a good idea next time you have the laptop connected to the bike is to get some screen shots and post them.
As MG thinks, the no map message is confirmation that it's corrupt. hopefully the re-load will have cured it without having to resort to more expensive fixes :lol:
The Sagem is a sensitive beast when it comes to volts. Also, unfasten it and look underneath. The bike undertray is full of holes and water ingress is not uncommon. While you're in there give it a clean and plug some of the undertray holes.
Hi Guys,
I did grab some screensthots whilst doing the TuneECU elements of my tinkering yesterday.
Take a look here:
http://www.slideshare.net/goodwinsplace ... cu-feb2012 (http://www.slideshare.net/goodwinsplace/tune-ecu-feb2012)
I'm going to leave the bike until the weekend, will do some searches on here and around for tests that I can do on the thermostat and pump. Can't see hardly any spares on eBay, will take a look on the for sale on here if I need to swap it out.
Thanks for the screen shots, these are very helpful.
A couple of questions
How long had the engine been running to get to that temp and was it after you reloaded the map?
If it took ages to reach this temp, ie, about 20 mins then the thermostat is definately shot. The water pump is fine.
There are quite a few options for replacing the stat and cap, and all are down to cost for cross referenced car parts, there are however some guys who have fitted these and had problems, the original Triumph parts are available on-line, long life anti freeze is a good move too although some brands are pink!
If you do replace the stat there is a thread on here of how to, but a good tip when burping the bike is to fill very slowly and if possible have the bike facing uphill slightly, it makes it easier to get the air out of the system.
The TPS needs reset, which is the button TPS reset. Also a how to in the TuneEcu overview.
There are some more trims to adjust but need to get the temp right first, then the ecu may take care of it.
How long had the engine been running to get to that temp and was it after you reloaded the map?
This was after the 30+ minute running for the 12 minute tune, off the top of my head I think the first three were before remapping and the last showing the new map downloaded.
If it took ages to reach this temp, ie, about 20 mins then the thermostat is definately shot. The water pump is fine.
There are quite a few options for replacing the stat and cap, and all are down to cost for cross referenced car parts, there are however some guys who have fitted these and had problems, the original Triumph parts are available on-line, long life anti freeze is a good move too although some brands are pink!
If you do replace the stat there is a thread on here of how to, but a good tip when burping the bike is to fill very slowly and if possible have the bike facing uphill slightly, it makes it easier to get the air out of the system.
There is a breaker on ebay that is selling a thermostat for around £20 including postage, not sure on the price new? I would rather go with the standard part than hacking around with a fixer solution.
I will start reading info around the process of changing it over, happy for pink fluid too the bike is a girl after all. :wink:
The TPS needs reset, which is the button TPS reset. Also a how to in the TuneEcu overview.
There are some more trims to adjust but need to get the temp right first, then the ecu may take care of it.
OK, I can reset the TPS, wasn't sure if it needed anything adjusting on the bike prior to resetting.
I will get all this sorted and hook it back up to TuneECU and get another set of screen grabs.
Thanks for all the feedback.
How long had the engine been running to get to that temp and was it after you reloaded the map?
This was after the 30+ minute running for the 12 minute tune, off the top of my head I think the first three were before remapping and the last showing the new map downloaded.
If it took ages to reach this temp, ie, about 20 mins then the thermostat is definately shot. The water pump is fine.
There are quite a few options for replacing the stat and cap, and all are down to cost for cross referenced car parts, there are however some guys who have fitted these and had problems, the original Triumph parts are available on-line, long life anti freeze is a good move too although some brands are pink!
If you do replace the stat there is a thread on here of how to, but a good tip when burping the bike is to fill very slowly and if possible have the bike facing uphill slightly, it makes it easier to get the air out of the system.
There is a breaker on ebay that is selling a thermostat for around £20 including postage, not sure on the price new? I would rather go with the standard part than hacking around with a fixer solution.
I will start reading info around the process of changing it over, happy for pink fluid too the bike is a girl after all. :wink:
The TPS needs reset, which is the button TPS reset. Also a how to in the TuneEcu overview.
There are some more trims to adjust but need to get the temp right first, then the ecu may take care of it.
OK, I can reset the TPS, wasn't sure if it needed anything adjusting on the bike prior to resetting.
I will get all this sorted and hook it back up to TuneECU and get another set of screen grabs.
Thanks for all the feedback.
Would be wise to buy new stat and rad cap as you already have used ones. Thermostats can be troublesome when secondhand.
Reset tps once new stat is fitted and correct running temp is obtained.
The pink antifreeze (organic acid technology) is different to the blue and you shouldn't mix them as it can (apparently) cause clogging of pipework, so if you go that way a thorough flush is required. I've never seen the OAT recommended for Tigers although it is standard on most modern cars.
Any antifreeze gurus around?
Use the pink stuff in mine and it dosent seem to make any difference. I think it was first put in at the 12k service by a Triumph dealer and I have carried on using it since.
goodwinsplace, I bought a thermostat and Rad cap from Fowlers bristol, great service, if you want 2nd hand ones, you can have the ones i took off my tiger for free :D
Drop me a line your not too far away from me
DaveB: Cheers for the offer, I think I will go with a new one to be on the safe side, do you remember how much roughly?
I need to find out the part numbers, that's my mission for tonight.
if you go to Fowlers Bristol you will need your VIN number this ensures the correct items for your bike.
cant remember off the top of my head at the mo, think £10 or so each, but i could be well of the mark. think it was only a few days delivery. Give me a shout if you want help
Cheers
Dave
£10 each is fine for new, I was looking at this ebay auction:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/thermostat-ho ... 1e676f40b3 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/thermostat-housing-triumph-tiger-955i-2002-7908-/130584363187?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item1e676f40b3)
And this £120 part, PFKL1206288 THERMOSTAT HOUSING ASSY £121.79
http://www.worldoftriumph.com/triumph_m ... k_03=23772 (http://www.worldoftriumph.com/triumph_motorcycle_parts_locator.php?block_01=&block_02=304074&block_03=23772)
Do I not need the whole thing?
Getting ahead of myself a bit here, the other question I was going to ask was, when you start the engine does the rad warm up at the same rate the engine does, ie one hand on the engine and one hand on the radiator? If the answer is yes then definately stat is at fault, if rad stays cold for a while then suddenly warms then temp sensor parts #2 #4 are required, otherwise
you only need parts #3 #7 #11. Don't need the whole housing.
False economy to buy secondhand.
Quote from: "Goodwinsplace"£10 each is fine for new, I was looking at this ebay auction:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/thermostat-ho ... 1e676f40b3 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/thermostat-housing-triumph-tiger-955i-2002-7908-/130584363187?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item1e676f40b3)
And this £120 part, PFKL1206288 THERMOSTAT HOUSING ASSY £121.79
http://www.worldoftriumph.com/triumph_m ... k_03=23772 (http://www.worldoftriumph.com/triumph_motorcycle_parts_locator.php?block_01=&block_02=304074&block_03=23772)
Do I not need the whole thing?
you can just buy a thermostat, is the housing broken?
Daveb - I don't think so, I'm going by problem solving on here and suggestions to find its faulty in the first place.
I think it is right as I had a fault back last year when rode for a hour or so where it over heated and wouldn't start. All rides since have been in much cooler temperatures and possibly in shorter bursts.
Quote from: "metalguru"Getting ahead of myself a bit here, the other question I was going to ask was, when you start the engine does the rad warm up at the same rate the engine does, ie one hand on the engine and one hand on the radiator? If the answer is yes then definately stat is at fault, if rad stays cold for a while then suddenly warms then temp sensor parts #2 #4 are required, otherwise
you only need parts #3 #7 #11. Don't need the whole housing.
False economy to buy secondhand.
Ummm. I will take a look on the weekend when I can next get to the bike.
How long can I run the bike for if it's got a faulty stat? Can I take it for a ride to see if the problems with the throttle have gone?
Overheating????????
Was the fault fixed? Did the fan not cut in? Any coolant in it?
The combination of the ecu not receiving the correct engine temp through either the stat or the temp sensor being faulty may not cure the revs problem.
Sorry I say over heating but don't know the exact cause, this was back in November and the temp gauge was fine at the time it wouldn't start, just assumed overheating as it was a long ride and stuck in crawling traffic at Wales Rally GB car park when it happened. it was a freakishly warm November day!
It started up fine for ride home that day so assumed it was a temp issue and it had time to cool.
Coolant is and was at good level. And I have used the bike possibly 10 times since.
We seem to be mixing issues here. Current prob is it takes ages to heat up. Doing MGs test of feeling the engine case and rad will reveal where that prob lies. Either way, taking it for a run isn't going to prove anything until you fix the 'stat.
The earlier 'overheating' needs more info. Like how do you know it overheated?
And I'm not sure I follow the overfuelling explanation MG, if the temp sensor reads cold because the engine is cold because of the faulty stat it'll still fuel correctly for the temp it senses. If, however the water temp sensor was u/s they I'd say you were right.
Standing by ... :lol:
Ok - I think I needed to reword that post where I mentioned 'Over heating' this problem happened once on a ride in warm weather, I was new to the bike and it could have been anything relating to my crawling in muddy tracks for 20+ minutes. The actual fault could have been a number of things, I just assumed over heating - sorry for startling anyone. I have used the bike on several big rides since that day.
My concentration is on resolving this issue. I will hopefully go upto the bike tomorrow night (Thursday) so will do the radiator test then and report back.
Quote from: "Bixxer Bob"And I'm not sure I follow the overfuelling explanation MG, if the temp sensor reads cold because the engine is cold because of the faulty stat it'll still fuel correctly for the temp it senses. If, however the water temp sensor was u/s they I'd say you were right.
Standing by ... :lol:
Really must try to fix bikes when not half asleep.
Just testing you are paying attention there BB!!
thank God for that, thought I was losing it for a minute :wink:
Quote from: "metalguru"Getting ahead of myself a bit here, the other question I was going to ask was, when you start the engine does the rad warm up at the same rate the engine does, ie one hand on the engine and one hand on the radiator? If the answer is yes then definately stat is at fault, if rad stays cold for a while then suddenly warms then temp sensor parts #2 #4 are required, otherwise
you only need parts #3 #7 #11. Don't need the whole housing.
False economy to buy secondhand.
Just done the test the left hand side of the bike warmed at the same rate as the left hand side of the radiator, the right hand side of the radiator was still pretty cool.
Only ran it for a minute or two to get up to temperature to notice a difference.
Therefore I assume I need parts #3, 7, 11?
I've just ordered these parts, came to £50 in total from Bevan (Triumph dealer) in Cardiff. Will pickup Tuesday, then have to find some time to fit!
please don't tell me that these weren't the correct parts based on my description above, they are going in the bike anyway!
Quote from: "Goodwinsplace"I've just ordered these parts, came to £50 in total from Bevan (Triumph dealer) in Cardiff. Will pickup Tuesday, then have to find some time to fit!
please don't tell me that these weren't the correct parts based on my description above, they are going in the bike anyway!
Thats the ticket, Load up some screen shots when fitted.
Don't forget the anti-freeze and system flush.
Quote from: "metalguru"Bought one of these a few years ago for my Adventurer, and it does what it says on the tin.......exactly. Never had any problems with it and for a bike that is only ridden in the nice weather, it has started every time, even if left for weeks without a trickle charge.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HIGH-POWER-MO ... 53eb272628 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HIGH-POWER-MOTOBATT-MBTX14AU-SEALED-MOTORCYCLE-BATTERY-/360427497000?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item53eb272628)
Or to be model specific...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MotoBatt-Quad ... 2316f01ffe (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MotoBatt-QuadFlex-MBTX12U-Battery-Triumph-Tiger-955i-EFI-T709EN-2001-2006-/150708690942?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item2316f01ffe)
Not one to rub it in.......BUT, did a bit of re-arranging in the w'shop today and was wondering if the Adventurer would start, it has not been on charge since I last used it in October last year. Turned the key and prodded the go button, made me jump when the engine near on threw itself out the frame on the starter and of course fired up straight away.
Well impressed by these batteries.
HELP! As I have a hectic weekend with my daughters birthday I wanted to get this into a garage and get the thermostat changed over, I booked it into someone I know who does a bit of bike servicing for today.
Got to my garage where the bike is kept, started the bike first touch of the button, rode it about a mile (if that) and got engine light, high revs and then it died on me as I rode another 100 meters. I pulled over and could smell oil again.
I've managed to get it back to my garage, not had a chance to hook it up to TuneECU, will try and get up there as soon as possible.
Any suggestions? I assume this is not related to the Thermostat?
If you've got a mil light,2 mins with .TuneECU will tell you what the prob is. It could just be a sensor plug come loose. If it started straight away, your battery is probably ok, but I'd check the condition of the two plugs on the ECU and the ECU itself for water damage. This is the easy stuff before pulling the tank off to delve deeper.
Thanks, I will get a TuneECU reading in the next day or two.
Battery is brand new and starting bike straight away.
The ECU was in good condition when I checked last week, the previous owner had even used conductive paste on the cable connection to preserve.
Has anyone had a similar bike dying and oil smell before, just looking for possible heads up and reading before I can get back to the bike.
From what I can see, the TPS and IACV have not been touched since the last screen shot.
Would be a great benefit to you getting these two resets carried out asap before your next outing to the stealer, as you may have more sucess.
Once pc is plugged in it literally takes 2mins to do.
Quote from: "metalguru"From what I can see, the TPS and IACV have not been touched since the last screen shot.
Would be a great benefit to you getting these two resets carried out asap before your next outing to the stealer, as you may have more sucess.
Once pc is plugged in it literally takes 2mins to do.
Is there any mechanical adjustments that I need to make prior to resetting these? I read somewhere about measuring the gap or is that something different?
Its all in the thread so far, just plug in pc, (fully charged battery on bike and mains supply to lappy) and reset TPS (high value on screenshot) and TPS to cleanout oprating surfaces
Hi All, I'm back!
I have just been up the garage, reset TPS and set IACV to 0 (from -11).
I cleared the Error code, I assume due to not changing the stat as yet, and gave it a quick run.
Took her about the same distance (1 mile max) as the other day and she felt a lot more responsive, no raised revs and didn't die out on me like the last short run. I did only take it for a short blast as I'm without an MOT as of now and didn't want to be pushing it back if I went to far and had it die on me again.
I reset the error codes before the ride and the light with the same error code was back within the ride, 1 mile maximum hopefully this will go away with the new stat installed.
I had a quick look at ECU, have some photo's on my phone and it all looked dry and no visible water damage as suggested to check for.
New slides here, I forgot to resize before upload but you can see the main details: http://www.slideshare.net/goodwinsplace ... march-2012 (http://www.slideshare.net/goodwinsplace/tune-ecu-6-march-2012)
I'm going back up the garage on Thursday evening, I'm tempted to take it for a longer ride just a few miles to make sure the fault doesn't return, with my mate riding with me incase it dies out again. Not to far though until I can get stat and MOT sorted. Anything else I need to check?
When you say the codes were back, what were they?
Adjust IACV to about -8 at least.
IDLE SPEED CONTROL button is the one to reset
TPS is good now.
LONG TERM FUEL TRIM is on the high side but ok.
Notice he battery voltage is low, have you got the headlamps on during connection to pc? They should be off or fuse removed for duration of any test/mapping, ecu doesn't like low voltage.
Keep us updated.
Sorry for such a long time in replying.
Here is an update, the thermostat, coolant change and Tune ECU adjustments made a huge difference, the bike runs great.
I put the bike in for MOT, taking it to the Triumph dealer in Cardiff (BIG mistake), £500 later I'm on the road.
I took her out for a long weekend tour last week, 600 miles running sweet. It's burning oil but from the threads I have read this is fairly common on some Tigers.
I'm pretty much set now for going away beginning of May down through Europe and into Spain. I will create another thread in the correct area to show our route and countries we will hit.
Just want to say a big thank you to all that offered advice on this thread.
:thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup
How'd the stealer justify 500 notes then?