As some might remember I am the guy with very little or no practical knowledge of tech stuff, but still like to try anyway :D
Recently had the tank off and plugs out, cleaned everything checked all the leads and conections, sprayed everything I could think of and assembled. Runs beautifully (well almost).
Due to running all through the winter I encounter most weathers! but have found that my Cat does not like the rain one little bit, everytime it gets a bit heavy she struggles to gain power and coughs a lot when travelling, but stationary she's fine. right now to the point.....
Before I go running off and replacing everything (money short) wondered if this is a common problem and is there an easy solution. Or do i just start eliminating things one by one. :roll:
hmmmm. never had that on mine. i think id be lookin for ignition wires that might be broken and gettin wet. if its not that the only thing i could think it would be is water in the petrol by gettin in the air chamber thingys on the side of the frame. i reckon the water gets kicked up by the rear tyre and gets in em somehow.
as far as i can think tho it can only be one of those. jus a case of checkin everythin
Could be the damp getting to your plug leads?
You could try spraying them with some silicone sealer.
Coils themselves are a weak point I believe
Quote from: "Hossboro"As some might remember I am the guy with very little or no practical knowledge of tech stuff, but still like to try anyway :D
Before I go running off and replacing everything (money short) wondered if this is a common problem and is there an easy solution. Or do i just start eliminating things one by one. :roll:
I haven't had this problem. My only suggestion is to try to reproduce the problem while stationary. I would remove the front plastic and prep the tank for removal. Drain the tank to a gallon or so. It is easier to handle this way. Then I would take a hose, start the bike and soak different areas. I wouldn't use high pressure. If you have a center stand, you can put the mc on the stand, put it in gear and try to reproduce it with the mc running in gear. The latter method is a bit riskier. For a throttle lock, you can use a rubber o-ring between the bar weight and the grip. When I use the centerstand, I try to put something under the centerstand to raise the the rear wheel a bit more and secure the front wheel to the ground.
like rf9 says ...........the plug wires could well be junk . if they are the oems , the little spring clips that attach to the threaded plug tops usually wear out and have a not so good connection to the plug anymore
do the coils say "GILL" on them or "PVL"
if they are gills it could well be this is where you should start
one of my tiggers always coughed and backfired whenever the weather was damp and foggy on a cool new england morning ................twas the coils
get yourself some pvl's off ebay
Or if money is tight, get yourself some Triumph TT600 stick coils, a good cheap upgrade.
Thnx guys :)
I knew this was the place for good info ^-^
Looks like a good check of everything needed, good job I got the week off next week then :wink:
Keep us posted :)
I know its been a while since I asked the question, but I have not had any time to do much, and she has run well until we got some bad rain again yesterday.
Gonna try the coil suggestion for deff, but was wandering, could it be an air issue. Coming home from work she started again in very heavy rain, when trying throttle movements noticed that she ran ok at a gentle throttle but as soon as I asked for power "struggled". I thought of air issues because when opening the throttle and she struggled, at the same time giving out lots of smoke every time, could this be water in the air intake starving her of air and running too rich or even water getting into the mixture somehow, or am I just clutching at straws..... thnx for your info in advance guys/gals
when was the last time you put a NEW air filter in ?
I would refer you back to Mustangs post. Missing under load is often a symptom of a weak spark. This is why sometimes you can have a nice blue spark with the plug out of the cylinder but when under a heavy load you get misfires. It is unlikely that water getting into the inlet is the problem as this would prevent the big cat from starting until it had dried out at best, more likely a carb strip and clean would be required.
I don't think you are clutching at straws. If some how you do have a dirty filter and water is somehow getting in you could well be gasping for air. I had an XT that lost its airbox snorkel allowing the back wheel to throw water into the airbox exhibit exactly those symptoms. Of course its more likely to be an electrical issue, and even something stupid like the fuel filler cap water drain vent being blocked allowing water into the tank. I doubt its the carbs, but unfortunately the bottom line its going to be a process of elimination. So, check off all the things, no matter how improbable, that doesn't involve large cash layouts first including dielectric greasing all connections including TCI and emergency ignition cutoff, side stand and clutch cutoff etc, second, do items that are part of the service interval and then splurge out on coils unless you have a mate that's prepared to lend you his to test.
Quote from: "Mustang"when was the last time you put a NEW air filter in ?
Don't own a steamer so, working on older posts, is the snorkel setup correct? my wondering is whether it's allowing the air filter to get wet or just damp and choking the air supply.
And, thinking while typing, can you replicate the problem in the dry by putting in some choke at the lever? That would give you a clue whether it's an air issue or electrics.
Quote from: "Bixxer Bob"And, thinking while typing, can you replicate the problem in the dry by putting in some choke at the lever? That would give you a clue whether it's an air issue or electrics.
it won't the bastards run great on choke even when they are hot .............just idle at 3-4 k with the choke on and run superb , it's not really a choke it's an enrichener .
hell I've made it home with a broken throttle cable using the choke to keep the rpms up enough to ride home with no throttle
Oh well, we still learned something even if it's a "don't try this" :lol:
Has the wet filter idea got legs?
Quote from: "Bixxer Bob"Oh well, we still learned something even if it's a "don't try this" :lol:
Has the wet filter idea got legs?
he still aint given an answer as to what coils are on the beast ...........
and I'd like to know if it's got the std 105 mains in it or not , have seen far too many triumphs that idiotic dealers and PO's have put way too big of mains in them and all they do is sputter and stutter when conditions aren't perfect .
This only happens in heavy rain, eh? I have this crazy theory that there is some water in the bottom of your tank. Somehow in heavy rain more is getting in and getting sucked into the fuel petcock. My suggestion is to remove the tank and dump all the gas into a gas-approved container. Make sure the tank is completely empty. Then pour it off back into the tank but stop when you get to the last bit and look for water. Use a glass container if you have to. If this is the problem, then get some of that water dispersant stuff they sell for cars in cold climates. Its a long shot but not a lot of work to check it.
The only other difference when its raining is 100% humidity which may be affecting performance IF you are already running very very lean to begin with. Another long-shot. But it is an odd set of symptoms.
Good luck!
OK, another off the wall thought. In heavy rain some water may be getting past the rad or various gaps to get the plug boots wet. Is it possible that the spark is grounding out? I switched to TT600 coils but I do recall that the stock boots are not exactly a firm water-tight fit. More like a dust cover for the recessed plugs. Could also be a tiny crack in one or more plug wires. The water provides a path to ground that is not there when its dry.
All suggestions will be looked into of course and thnx guys for pointing me in many directions :P
Sorry for not getting back to ya about the coils Mustang, truth is I ride just about everyday out of need, ad never really get much chance to do anything except talk about what I want to do. Will make a real effort to keep you posted.
As for the air filter, don't think its been changed i a while, just blown out with air last couple times, so thats gonna be my first thing on the list, cos although i'm not a tech head in any way shape or form, I do get a gut feeling that its possibly gonna be that. ( and anybody got pics of how the snorkel should look, cos truth is i've never seen a tiger setup, so not sure what to look for..
Oh and the thing about the fuel tank and water, thats on my list aswell, I know it does sound a little crazy, but can't get it out of my head that the last 2 times its happened I do believe I just filled up hmmmmm.
Don't give up on me i will let you know the outcome, thnx again guys....
If you want to look at my 96 steamer, I live about 12 miles from Billingham.
PM me.
Geoff.
Ok so its took forever to get any update on the cats afraid of water subject.
Truth is, its been a very strange and difficult problem to pin down but maybe theres light at the end of the tunnel or not (gettin a bit confused).
As for the coils Gills is the answer, but not sure thats the problem now hmm get complicated from here on (to me anyway).
I'm airing on the side of Head gasket now and my local garage seem to think the same, but is nagging at me that its a big job specialy if its not.
Ok so had 2 occasions recently (about 2 weeks apart) travelling to work, when engine warmed up a little open the throttle and she starts to missfire and struggles for power (ok if easy on the throttle) then after maybe about a mile or so more she started to throw out very big plumes of white smoke (very bad) immediatly i think head gasket gone from previous experience with car, by the time i get to work its eased off and when leaving work its then all ok.
I arrived at work the second time this happened and thought to check the oil dipstick, showed deff signs of water contamination, but not seen this since on other checks. Could this just be my imagination or is it the head hmmm, is it possibly only happening as the engine heats up and the gasket the allows water through. Would love you thoughts before I go ahead and get the head done..
Oh and no its not using masses of water either, just maybe tiny amounts.
As we havn't had any weather in this country I am inclined to think the white smoke could be condensation as it disappears when warm, same with small amounts of water on the dipstick.
May be an idea to check the inlet manifold rubbers as they can cause problems, undo the clamps between the carbs and cylinder head and see if they are in good condition.
Did you ever verify there is no water sloshing around in the tank? Do they sell the water dispersant stuff in the UK? Its normally used to get rid of condensation in car gas tanks in the winter. If you can get it, then a can would be a cheap investment.
If its a head gasket then I would think a compression check would be in order to verify before you pull the head on a guess.
Good luck. Sounds like a real gremlin.
Thnx Nightrunner, i'm sorry to say that I have not checked the water in the tank thing yet but could be something for the future. Truth is that MetaLguru may have hit the nail on the head, got time today to have a good look around and YEP the rubber seals from the carb to the head are very warn and cracked, also the rocker cover gasket could do with replacing and sorting out, this would in my mind deff explain pretty much the problem I have with power loss, both in the wet and dry as its getting now, knock on effect to plugs and everything else i bet too.
Does anyone have any good suggestions as to were I cab source reasonably priced rubber seals and gasket..
Thx guys for all the help, without you i'd be a car driver maybe :lol:
from what ui can remember mate they aint that bad a price from triumph.
7 quid each. no.7
http://www.worldoftriumph.com/triumph_m ... k_03=23773 (http://www.worldoftriumph.com/triumph_motorcycle_parts_locator.php?block_01=&block_02=304153&block_03=23773)
Quote from: "rybes"from what ui can remember mate they aint that bad a price from triumph.
7 quid each. no.7
http://www.worldoftriumph.com/triumph_m ... k_03=23773 (http://www.worldoftriumph.com/triumph_motorcycle_parts_locator.php?block_01=&block_02=304153&block_03=23773)
Just make sure you don't get the restricted ones.
These can be identified by 3 indents on the out side, and smaller inside diameter.
Thanx guys, looks spot on for parts. Only thing bugs me is how do ya know which is which, engine No 55615 or 55616 my engine number is nothing like that, at work so can't remember what it is but starts 052 something. Or am I missing something here :?
all the vin #s on steamers start with a zero stamped in the block 55615 is really marked as 055615 as the last six digits on the block .
and 55615 and below is for mikuni carbs and 55616 and up is for Keihin carbs
so just order the ones that are for whatever carbs you have .
Cheers Mustang 8)
Always glad to hear your advice, Mikuni carbs are the ones. Why don't they just say that, would be so much easier for us non techs :lol:
Ok so the saga might have an ending of sorts, not a good ending by the look of things.
Local mechanic replaced rocker cover gasket (water in oil problem solved), now he believes it might have blown/sticking a valve, runs fine on start up but once warmed up is when the problems start, very bad sounding and throwing smoke does not have any power and firing badly.
Does anyone think it is worth me trying it on as a project (bearing in mind im a novice of the first degree) my mate is good though for some help.
Or anyone interested in making a spares or repair offer for me to consider my options, either way run about needed for now anyway.
Pics are on site check my posts.......
any one check valve clearances yet ................???????
Thnx Mustaaannng. Will be something for me to look at, getting it back today and have to spend my spare time working on it. Decided not to get rid and put my limited skills a bit of a stretch. Thats unless someone offers me rediculous money of course :)
I can do rediculous.... how about a tenner? :lol:
Ok so things have moved on a little now, Thought I would keep you up to date with how things are going and maybe get some inspiration too.
Being not entirely convinced that my problem lies with a valve or valves, due to lack of problems once engine is warmed up and after a run were the problem occurs then disappears at idle, still could be I know.
Thought I would start at the basics, change all 3 plugs (hmm got 2 out need to get the right plug spanner for No 2) 1 & 3 look fine but new put in anyway.
Have completed compression test from cold on 1&3 (due to bike stripped already) just shy of 200 psi each (checked 3 times) is that too high i wonder or is it ok? will let you know about No 2 when I get the tool :D . completed meter readings on coils and HT leads all have same readings, I know this is not the be all & end all but it seems promising (oh and sorry Mustang got it wrong they are PVL's).
Hope this is narrowing this down a little and if number 2 is ok then I would like to think this is a good sign.
Then I guess I will look into fuel problems maybe, will keep you updated and thnx for any input, it is very very welcomed...
just in case you don't want to go back to previous posts, the problem has been narrowed down to, any weather dry or wet now, ok on start up, runs fine around town mostly, but when getting onto the open road and asking for some power IE: up to about 40mph seems ok then ask for overtaking power and the issue starts with no power then misfiring badly followed by drop in power all together and grey/white smoke pouring out, ease off throttle and stop even, will settle down and then ok again.
200 psi is good ...pretty much rules out valves,and rings .
the white grey smoke could be oil burning , but that doesn't jive with the compression readings .
pvl's don't generally have problems like the gills do ,
time to start looking hard at the carbs :wink:
cap on the right hand snorkel ?
Yeah pretty much what i thought, still need to check that No 2 , but looks good to me too, carb seem like next step. Yep cap is on the snorkel. keep ya posted thnx Mustang.
Update : Got that pesky No 2 out, plug was sooty (burning oil I presume) compression test was tiny bit down on others but still 185 is ok. So need to move on to fuel problem maybe, would redex do any harm for a starter before I strip the carb, just to see if it helps.
with the symptoms you are describing , you need to check em good and clean em good !
Quote from: "Hossboro"Update : Got that pesky No 2 out, plug was sooty (burning oil I presume) compression test was tiny bit down on others but still 185 is ok. So need to move on to fuel problem maybe, would redex do any harm for a starter before I strip the carb, just to see if it helps.
Need to be really accurate here as could change the course of diagnostics.
The compression pressures are
about 200psi for 1 and 3.
What are the
exact pressures as looking at a 15psi difference just on number 2 cyl. Triumph don't list pressures but 20% difference usually means something is amiss.
If 1 and 3 are identical and 2 is down then it shows a leak. The leak will be into the water jacket as wet liners are used. Does the coolant bottle smell of exhaust? The difference is only small but it could be the start. (10:6 cr).
Reading the post again it seems to have bad running when warm/hot. How long is your commute and when does the problem occur in miles, does it stay consistant?
Sooty plug can also denote bad combustion. Also plug may be faulty, as carboned plug makes for a good misfire too.
Lots of questions there but will make diags easier to the main fault.
Finally the carb rubbers are shot so did you change them and rebalance the carbs?
Redex is good for lighting bonfires/barbis etc!
Ok so here is the update again. Sorry about the not so accurate readings on the compression test, actaul figures were 1&3 196 psi and 2 was 187 psi I am not too sure but I would put that difference down to the ongoing Valve stem seal problem I have.
Changed all plugs, cleaned carbs (yes I know with redex) sorry. But hey I am not counting my chickens but things seem to have improved dramatically. Oh and as for the miles before problem starts I would say about 2-3 miles in and maybe just maybe this could also contribute, maybe its not warmed up enough before I get onto main drag hmmm, cos gave her a really got warm up before test drive and she ran like a real kitty on steroids wow... we will see in the next few days.
Thnx for all the imput guys..
Edited sorry No 2 was 187 not 87 psi........
I would be more concerned about that low cylinder. The stem seals are what keep oil out of the combustion chamber and combustion gases out of the oil. Stem seals are not part of the 'compression boundary'. If the valve clearances are correct, then either the valve does not seal in the seat (need a valve job), or rings are bad, or head gasket is leaking, or there's a tiny hole in the piston. I would check the compression again very carefully. If the one is still low then verify the valves are adjusted properly. If they are then best let a pro look at it, and hope its the head gasket.
EDIT: I just checked the previous page and saw the post about white smoke. My experience (admittedly most of which is with cars, not bikes) is that white smoke is water/anti-freeze. Oil getting in the combustion chamber makes a black smoke with a hint of blue to it. Blue smoke all the time is rings, while blue smoke only on warm-up is valves. Low compression and white smoke on hard accel suggests to me a slightly leaking head gasket. Coolant is getting pulled in but only under high vacuum when you open the throttle.
:iagree
These have been known for the exhaust valves to embed in the valve seat causing the valve clearance to deminish and burn the valve seat.
Would also concur to check valve clearances and prepare for possible head off. Wouldn't recommend riding till fault is found.
ive bought the problem cat :oops: :oops: :oops:
i rode this home in the dry bogged down in all gears did improve slightly after 10 miles or so still not good smoke real bad black not blue so i think thats a good thing :?
i like the ride and want to use it
will be pulling it to bits next week to try and get to the bottom of it
thank you