Took the bike out for pretty much the first time this year. Only rode into town to grab a few bits. On the way home noticed the rev counter doing odd things then stopped working. Few minutes later the speedo decides to give up. Stopped the bike a few hundred yards from home, bad move! Battery pretty much dead.
A quick check this morning and it looks like the R/R is fooked. This will be my third now to fail. Last time I replaced the stator and R/R from Electrex, so not cheap. Just about to go and check the alternator now.
I think this bike is cursed, at least the charging system is.
Check both 30 amp fuses,in fact replace them with new,that should cost pence
then check the battery terminals are/were tight,how old is the battery? and
has it been charged whilst its been sat idle?,i know you've probably done all this
but i had the same happen to me and a quick check of the fuse in the first
place would have saved me a couple hundred quid.
I pulled all the fuses to start with, they all looked OK, but I will replace them. The battery is about a year and a half old I think. Yes it has been on a trickle charge for most of the cold stuff. I will buy a new one to be safe though.
I'm more concerned about the regularity of the failure.
Also, pull apart the three-spade connector from the stator to the reg/rec (yellow wires). Crud = high resistance / low volts = reg rec / stator fail.
Saved mine just in time when looking for cause of drop in charge voltage while riding. Cleaned up connectors and everything is back to normal.
They've hardly had time to even dull Bob! Out of curiosity, has anyone set a record for the amount of RR's they have replaced. I'm up to 3 now, anyone care to up the bid to cheer me up.
I also notice on the Electrex site that they now list two versions of the reg.
http://www.electrexworld.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss000001.pl?page=search&SS=triumph+tiger&ACTION=Search&PR=-1&TB=A
Anyone know the difference? The email I had back from them said.......
"Both work the same but the RR99 is the most similar in appearance to the original."
......I think I could have told em that!
Do you have similar AC volts from the 3 phase wires?
Also is the Earth connections good electrically as opposed to physically?
Have you done the wiring mod?
Quote from: "metalguru"Do you have similar AC volts from the 3 phase wires?
Also is the Earth connections good electrically as opposed to physically?
Have you done the wiring mod?
Voltage out of the alternator is good and no shorts to earth. Other than the battery earth, I don't really know which other earth points I should be checking. Once I have a new reg I will do the wiring mod. Other than improved voltage rates, does this reduce the likely hood of future problems?
Quote from: "robxxxx"Quote from: "metalguru"Do you have similar AC volts from the 3 phase wires?
Also is the Earth connections good electrically as opposed to physically?
Have you done the wiring mod?
Other than improved voltage rates, does this reduce the likely hood of future problems?
There is the how long is the string question.
Years ago (1990) I bought a HD superglide 1340 FXR and from year 1 as I only rode it in the summer as it wasn't my main transport, it used to use a RR once a year at start up time.
Then when I tuned the thing to within an inch of its life it used to use a battery a season. which at the time I thought, fair enough the compression was a tad high.
This was starting to be a big PITA not to mention the annual cost. Then out came the Optimate so I used to remove the battery at the end of the silly season, stick it on the Optimate and leave it, rather than just trickle charging once when I remembered.
The strange thing now, was the battery and RR lasted up untill I sold the bike which was 10yrs!!
The RR for HDs is also of the Mosphet type, even had one catch fire once, which was amusing trying stop the engine, run round the w/shop trying to find someting to cut the wires with!
I can recommend that if the bike is not to be used for more than a month is to disconnect and/or remove the battery. Cannot see the ecu being affected, only need the alarm to be in service mode, the bleeping does stop eventually.
BTW sold the HD after it covered me in boiling hot oil for the second time, the cost of ceramic coated pistons was also getting silly, so gave up the unequal struggle trying to make the thing go and handle reasonably well.
Rob,
When I replaced my stator and R/R with a stator and mosphet R/R fomr Ricks electrics the weak link in the new system was the connector between the stator wires and the R/R. As soon as I started loading circuits up the connector heated up and I lost voltage.
It might be worth checking this connector before you replace the R/R again
Quote from: "Advwannabe"Rob,
When I replaced my stator and R/R with a stator and mosphet R/R fomr Ricks electrics the weak link in the new system was the connector between the stator wires and the R/R. As soon as I started loading circuits up the connector heated up and I lost voltage.
It might be worth checking this connector before you replace the R/R again
Just had the same problem, connector melted and left me with just one wire conncected, god knows how it was still running. Have just cut off the the old one and replaced with some crap Halford's connectors whilst I await the delivery of a decent replacement connector.
I think I'd do a couple of things....
larger wire & connectors.
Put a volt meter on your instrument panel.
Are you running your 'accessories' thru relays?
Are your wire connections soldered?
Have you done the 'alternator re-wire' shown on this site?
Finally... I'd take it back to Electrex and see if they can tell you what's going on.
RR has turned up. Fuse holder purchased. Just a few spade terminals and I should be sorted this weekend, work permitting.
I'm still unsure about fitting a voltage display. My concern is that I am just going to end up looking at the damn thing all the time and getting paranoid.
We're just starting to plan for Europe later this year, and the last thing I want to be doing is staring at a voltage display for most of the trip.
Sometimes ignorance is bliss, but only when it's backed up by full RAC cover.
Quote from: "robxxxx"They've hardly had time to even dull Bob! Out of curiosity, has anyone set a record for the amount of RR's they have replaced. I'm up to 3 now, anyone care to up the bid to cheer me up.
I also notice on the Electrex site that they now list two versions of the reg.
http://www.electrexworld.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss000001.pl?page=search&SS=triumph+tiger&ACTION=Search&PR=-1&TB=A
Anyone know the difference? The email I had back from them said.......
"Both work the same but the RR99 is the most similar in appearance to the original."
......I think I could have told em that!
Yes Rob I can beat that in the 11 years ive owned the bike.. I'm on my 4th RR and 3rd Stator. 1st after the original was the RR53? 2nd RR99 and now another RR99.
I bought a upgraded RR99 mosfet which packed up in 7 months and Ive just replaced it under warranty with another RR99 (by the way the RR99 is not a shunt RR) after replacing the charging system was ok until recently and the charging system was ok until I put a load onto the circuit, so tested G75 stator and found all 3 phases going to ground, so replaced with another G75 stator from Electrexworld now all ok .. As I am in the trade, I do get Trade price so not as expensive to me..
The difference between the RR99 and 99H is the additional wiring loom the 99H has additional wiring Link, but they are both Mosfet type RR's
Well its done. I wasn't happy with the way I did the rewire on Sunday. Looked a bit of a pigs ear. So I found a 4pin socket to plug into the regulator output plug and now looks nice and tidy.
Here's a few figures.
12.73. Engine/Ignition off
12.04. Ignition on/Lights on/Engine off
13.50 Cold Idle
12.90-13.00 Warm Idle
12.50. Warm Idle/Fan on
14.14. @4k RPM
Don't look too bad to me, but what do you all think?
I did not get any reading's with the new reg in standard wiring set-up, might give that a go over Easter weekend to satisfy my curiosity.
Gary, that's not a bad total then. But you have had the bike 11 years. I've only had my Tiger for about four years.
Quote from: "robxxxx"Well its done. I wasn't happy with the way I did the rewire on Sunday. Looked a bit of a pigs ear. So I found a 4pin socket to plug into the regulator output plug and now looks nice and tidy.
Here's a few figures.
12.73. Engine/Ignition off
12.04. Ignition on/Lights on/Engine off
13.50 Cold Idle
12.90-13.00 Warm Idle
12.50. Warm Idle/Fan on
14.14. @4k RPM
Don't look too bad to me, but what do you all think?
I did not get any reading's with the new reg in standard wiring set-up, might give that a go over Easter weekend to satisfy my curiosity.
Gary, that's not a bad total then. But you have had the bike 11 years. I've only had my Tiger for about four years.
Readings look almost identical to mine (with voltage fix done), the only thing I notice is that when cruising at a steady speed, say 60mph, the voltmeter constantly jumps between 13.8 and 14.1. Would that be fairly normal, a sign of problems or just a crappy cheap volmeter? And ideas?
Mine does the same. Bearing in mind the constantly changing rpm, holding the output to within 0.3 volts is pretty good I'd say.
Quote from: "Bixxer Bob"Mine does the same. Bearing in mind the constantly changing rpm, holding the output to within 0.3 volts is pretty good I'd say.
Excellent, hopefully I can forget charging issues for a little while and just enjoy the riding :D
Quote from: "HockleyBoy"Excellent, hopefully I can forget charging issues for a little while and just enjoy the riding :D
Me too. Only problem is I am 5 months away from a Euro trip and to say that this has cast a nagging doubt on reliability is an understatement. Anyone got a dealer list for Romania and Yugoslavia :D
Thanks again for your input chaps
Quote from: "HockleyBoy"Quote from: "Bixxer Bob"Mine does the same. Bearing in mind the constantly changing rpm, holding the output to within 0.3 volts is pretty good I'd say.
Excellent, hopefully I can forget charging issues for a little while and just enjoy the riding :D
So, I spoke too soon, on the way to work this morning I pulled up at a roundabout and thought I could smell burning. Must be a bonfire or somesuch nearby (not uncommon on my route) however at the next roundabout I could smell it again, not a bonfire then!
I pulled over and just then my voltmeter dropped from 14 to 0.
Bike off and a quick look showed me that the stator to regrec connector had again melted into a lump of goo.
In my topbox I had pliers and a reel of tape so i spent 20 minutes (in the rain)doing a temporary fix which got me to work and will I hope get me home tonight.
Looks like I will be doing some soldering tonight as I am not going to put another connector on!
Sounds like a bad connection there.
Sometimes the connections look good but electrically can be bad.
Guys...
there is a website easternbeaver.com ...
they have all kinds of harnesses and connection + rectifier wiring...
give them a look....
this guy has a bunnch of wiring and connectors and can build a harness.
Looks like my stator is toast again, replaced it last year from Ricks, drawing 0 ohms on all three connector pins, also the connector is melted. Any insight why these are so prone to failure ?
Looks like a high resistance at the connecter block.
Sometimes the connection looks good but isn't electrically.
If not already done, do the wiring mod.
+1
I've long been an advocate of the resistance theory both here and on the Honda site. Resistance on one or more connectors heats it up and burns the plug whilst overloading the coils and reg rec. One of these days I'll research some theory to back it up (or not) :roll:
It was definitely the connector block that was causing my problems, melted three different ones before finally just soldering the wires together and covering with heatshrink (fortunately regrec and alternator are still working ok).
Voltage now looks pretty good on the meter and the wires are not heating up as they were before. Am hoping this works out to be my long term fix!
I did the mod so my r/r went direct to battery but my stator connection was melted. The folks at Ricks are great to work with, they said they would warranty my stator but I doubt they will cover the r/r with the connector cut off.
can anything be done with the stator connector ?
Quote from: "HockleyBoy"It was definitely the connector block that was causing my problems, melted three different ones before finally just soldering the wires together and covering with heatshrink (fortunately regrec and alternator are still working ok).
Voltage now looks pretty good on the meter and the wires are not heating up as they were before. Am hoping this works out to be my long term fix!
Did you hard wire the stator wires ?
Quote from: "Fishbone"[Did you hard wire the stator wires ?
Only the connection between the stator and the RR as this seems to be where my problems have arisen despite trying different connectors, soldering them on, dielectric grease etc. D
Did the Sasquatch Voltage Fix connecting the RR to the battery a year or two back and this has been good with no problems to date.
+1
Hard wiring and sleeveing the connection will rid the problem.
The basic problem seems to be a high resistance building within the connector component parts. The connectors when connected only have a very small contact area, if for some reason this area becomes contaminated, could be just oxidation from temp changes when charging causing condensation for example, can lead to a high resistance at the connector. If one applies Ohms law to this senario, then as the resistance increases the volts will drop and the amps increase. (eg principle workings of an arc welder). Over time this condition will worsen, ie the contamination or arcing increases to a point where the contact area although very small will warm up. A good example of resistance is a normal incandescent lamp, apply a resistance to the cable used on motorcycles as standard, it will warm very easily creating more oxide, hence more resistance and the cycle goes on untill it gets to a point where due to voltage drops, the battery begins to discharge. Usually by this point the rider will notice but the alternator will still just charge the battery via 1 phase winding instead of 3. If however this theory is applied to the RR to Batt cables the principle is the same, trying to put a quart in a pint pot. The wiring loom is quite capable when new to a few years old, but time and airborne chemicals will soon deteriorate the conductivity hence the Sasquatch mod. A high resistance in this loom or any return/chassis earth connectors will eventually take out the whole charging circuit. Therefore if for example the main engine earth connection may look ok there could be oxidation between cable/connector, engine/connector, purely down to hostile environment and the materials of construction (aluminium).
AAHH but it still starts you say, if the bad connection is across the engine earth for example, as soon as the starter is energised a very high current (amps) is created, this can create a small arc between the connecting surfaces and complete the circuit (think arc welder) also heat and more oxidation.
The trick here as part of an annual service is to check all connections for contact area and condition, remembering that although the connector may look visually good, electrically it may be very poor. A good hint is discolouration of any cable (goes black) and any connector which goes green/black or warms up during operation. Stealers unless specifically asked will NOT do these checks nowadays, only if a fault develops and it is part of the diagnostics. Our Tigers are of the age where these kinds of faults will manifest themselves, particularly if ridden in/on all environments.
...I'm about to order my second set of R/R and stator from Rick's, which brings me into the 3rd time club (that's counting the OEM from the original back in 2006).
From all this wisdom, I deduce that I need to:
1) Sasquatch bypass wiring [ X ]
2)Install new mosfet R/R from Rick's in a cooler spot [ ]
3)Install new stator (Rick's) into the alternator, along with a new alternator cover gasket [ ]
4)Solder and shrink-wrap the connections between the alternator and the R/R because I don't trust the connectors [ ]
Which should cost me about $300, as I remember from last time.
Still cheaper than the dealer.
I truly hope this is the last time because I don't want to do this every season!
Mosphet RRs 'should' run cooler than the old shunt type, so ok to mount in standard place.
Metalguru - best simplified explaination of connector issues I've ever seen. Thanks! I will perform 'due dilligence' check before next out of town ride.
Quote from: "robxxxx"Well its done. I wasn't happy with the way I did the rewire on Sunday. Looked a bit of a pigs ear. So I found a 4pin socket to plug into the regulator output plug and now looks nice and tidy.
Here's a few figures.
12.73. Engine/Ignition off
12.04. Ignition on/Lights on/Engine off
13.50 Cold Idle
12.90-13.00 Warm Idle
12.50. Warm Idle/Fan on
14.14. @4k RPM
Don't look too bad to me, but what do you all think?
I did not get any reading's with the new reg in standard wiring set-up, might give that a go over Easter weekend to satisfy my curiosity.
Gary, that's not a bad total then. But you have had the bike 11 years. I've only had my Tiger for about four years.
Just replaced the stator and R/R. Did the mod while in there. My GPS has a voltage monitor function and my readings are very similar.
Stretch had perfected this a number of years back. I bought a new set off him after he got out of the Tiger business.
Ricks stator hard wired- ZERO connectors
CBR 1000 Mofset regulator- Mount anywhere.
***Maxi fuse holder**** to handle current.
These are bulletproof.
Thank you gentlemen (and ladies???).
I will install stator and mosfet as instructed once they arrive.
I can tell she's looking forward to stretching her legs.
Quote from: "brad1098"Stretch had perfected this a number of years back. I bought a new set off him after he got out of the Tiger business.
Ricks stator hard wired- ZERO connectors
CBR 1000 Mofset regulator- Mount anywhere.
***Maxi fuse holder**** to handle current.
These are bulletproof.
After further charging problems and getting sick of the whole thing so bit the bullet and did similar to the above:
New stator from Electrex world
New Reg Rec, Shindengen Mofset from Yamaha R1 connected directly to the stator wires so no joins.
Already had the Maxi fuse in as part of the Sasquatch fix.
Early signs are good, charging at about 14.4v when moving and drops to 12.5 - 12.7v when ticking over with fan on. The difference between that and before is that even when the engine is hot the charge goes back up to 14.4v as soon as I start moving again wheras it remained in the high 12s before. Also the Reg Rec hardly even gets warm even after sitting in traffic for ages which must be good.
Lets hope I have finally got it right!
Just put 2 new stators in first one did not work to well, new RR belive it was one off a ZX10, new battery which immediately died old battery refitted. Seems to be working now. cheers Spud :wink:
Quote from: "Spud"Just put 2 new stators in first one did not work to well, new RR belive it was one off a ZX10, new battery which immediately died old battery refitted. Seems to be working now. cheers Spud :wink:
Lets hope you can just enjoy the riding now, pita these charging problems.
Little jaunt sunday only 150 miles but it ran sweet :lol:
Hope yours is all sorted as well cheers Spud :wink:
Quote from: "Spud"Little jaunt sunday only 150 miles but it ran sweet :lol:
Hope yours is all sorted as well cheers Spud :wink:
Couple of hundred miles so far and no problems.
The real test will be when the Olympics start, commuting through London traffic is a pain at the best of times and the bike gets hot. When it gets hot, you are not moving and the fan kicks in while the bike is ticking over the charging system is under strain and thats where I have had problems in the past.
Fingers crossed I have cracked it this time!
Apparently parts of London will be a no drive area on sports day. Shall keep a look out for you on the A12 from the 140mph long blue tube!!
The whole thing is goung to be a nightmare but hopefully I will be able to weave my way through the A13 traffic and into the city. My route isn't too badly affected by "Olympic Lanes" but I may still need to make a minor diversion or two.
Am going to give it a couple of days to see how it goes and then like you may resort to the train if it's too bad.
Quote from: "Spud"Little jaunt sunday only 150 miles but it ran sweet :lol:
Hope yours is all sorted as well cheers Spud :wink:
Spud,
Just wondered how your new charging system is going, any idea what sort of readings you get when the bike is hot and has been stuck in traffic?, I am seeing as low as 12.3v from time to time and not sure if I should be worried or not.
I have lost confidence in the charging system reliability so anything that looks a bit low bothers me now.
First stator went in was not kicking enough juice out apparently so I had an upgraded one fitted I will confirm but I think it was kicking out 14.8 I will ask my mate who's the spanner man.
I had the engine flushed as well and it seems to be running a lot cooler now as well.
Runs sweet now 6th gear roll ons are nice.
Sorry cant be of any more help at mo but will speak to mate cheers Spud :wink:
I get mid 12s sometimes when she's hot. I was worried enough to think about turning back from a 500 mile trip whe it happened recently, but then thought "what the hell, let's go". 1500 miles in, it's still ok. I will get round to the SAS mod one of these days.
I never checked my bike till it broke down in Scotland, i kept the battery on trickle charger when not in use and just rode it when it fired up cheers Spud :wink:
Thanks guys, probably nothing to worry about as the battery always shows 12.7 to 12.9 when I come back to the bike but I am paranoid about the whole thing now and don't really trust the Tiger anymore.
Its going to have to do a lot of trouble free miles now not to be replaced.
I love mine and I'm planning some big trips, if it dies I'll call the RAC cheers Spud :wink:
Quote from: "Bixxer Bob"I get mid 12s sometimes when she's hot. I was worried enough to think about turning back from a 500 mile trip whe it happened recently, but then thought "what the hell, let's go". 1500 miles in, it's still ok. I will get round to the SAS mod one of these days.
And thats the thing... for all the folks that have this issues there is more that don't.
Yes it's an issue, and if it gets you its a big one, but it doesn't seem to be large enough to have warranted a recall or major rework. Just saying...
And like Bixer I'll run her stock till... whenever. or maybe I'll be too late.
Quote from: "oxnsox"Quote from: "Bixxer Bob"I get mid 12s sometimes when she's hot. I was worried enough to think about turning back from a 500 mile trip whe it happened recently, but then thought "what the hell, let's go". 1500 miles in, it's still ok. I will get round to the SAS mod one of these days.
And thats the thing... for all the folks that have this issues there is more that don't.
Yes it's an issue, and if it gets you its a big one, but it doesn't seem to be large enough to have warranted a recall or major rework. Just saying...
And like Bixer I'll run her stock till... whenever. or maybe I'll be too late.
I use the Tiger to commute fair distances as well as the fun stuff (i am covering around 20k miles a year) and for me reliabilty is a key issue as I am sick of roadside fixes, recovery trucks and train rides home.
Having replaced the stator, regrec (3 times) and battery, rewired and done Sas mod I am still seeing (everyday) 12.3 to 12.5v at tickover when engine is hot and it concerns me. Next step is (another) new battery, higher rated before i start disussing (possibly) faulty new Stators with Electrexworld.
I love my Tiger (best bike I have ever owned) but do not have the time or money to keep trying to resolve an issue that should never have arisen in the first place.
Those that haven't had these problems are very lucky indeed!
Quote from: "oxnsox"Quote from: "Bixxer Bob"I get mid 12s sometimes when she's hot. I was worried enough to think about turning back from a 500 mile trip whe it happened recently, but then thought "what the hell, let's go". 1500 miles in, it's still ok. I will get round to the SAS mod one of these days.
And thats the thing... for all the folks that have this issues there is more that don't.
Yes it's an issue, and if it gets you its a big one, but it doesn't seem to be large enough to have warranted a recall or major rework. Just saying...
And like Bixer I'll run her stock till... whenever. or maybe I'll be too late.
Me too,I have a brand stator and a R/R as spares that I bought along the way incase,and thats it,the only time I even think about it is when this post turns up.