May get told off here for using a 'New' topic thread, but...
Having sorted the gearbox (5th gear cluster lost 7 teeth...) during Winter on my '02 (thanks to everyone for their help and advice), I noticed that on the odd occasion, the engine would not start (didn't even try - not even a click of the solenoid) even though all the ignition lights were on. It did eventually fire up without an issue and ran perfectly.
This happened a few times, and the alarm/ignition switch were suspected even though they had not been touched during repair.
I the noticed that sometimes (it's always 'sometimes', never regular to help you find the issue!!!), at idle speed, the engine revs would drop to around 900 and on the odd occasion even stopped. It re-started fine, but left me to fan the throttle whenever I cam to a halt. Again, sometimes it was fine.
Now it is playing up way too much, even on a cold start it can cut out, and when it does, getting it going again is a nightmare - ignition lights on, loads of battery juices (brand new battery), the engine just turns and turns with no flicker of a spark. I try ignition on/off, alarm on/off, alarm activated and off, and it will eventually fire and careful manipulation of the throttle gets it going, but it doesn't 'feel' happy any longer.
From a previous thread, maybe I need to go back over all the electrical connections? Is the Alarm (pain in the a..e that they are) playing up? The immobiliser? Or is it a fuel related problem? It is full with V-Power...
Once again, any help is always gratefully appreciated.
Sounds like it could be the Idle Air Control Valve the thing by the airbox with 3 pipes coming from it, check the condition of the pipes and if cracked or perrished then renew with 6mm silicon vacuum tube from fleabay or model shop. Clean the working faces of the valve as these clog up but don't lube with WD40 it will wreck the seal. Use a teflon dry based lube.
May also be corrupt tune which means hooking up tuneEcu and having a look.
Hi Metalguru
Many thanks for your reply.
Being bit of a thicko here... Can't find an 'Idle Air Control Valve' anywhere on the Tiger fiche.
Is it the Evaporative Loss unit that sits between air box and injectors and has a stepper motor controlling it? This has a tube to each injector and a triple Tee piece taking the tube elsewhere...
Sorry :?
Yes mate that is the one, you need to remove the tank to get to it, being a UK bike it will not have the evap system but still has the valve, this controls air let into the engine at idle. In the centre of the valve there is a small piston like valve that moves up and down controlled by a stepper motor and the ecu. This is the part that needs cleaning but don't test it with tune ecu untill it is back on the bike. There are 3 tubes from this valve to the inlet manifold these should be in A1 condition and a tight fit on all stubs. Also if a scotoiler is fitted make sure the pipes to the adapter and oiler are secure and leak proof.
Thanks Mate.
Got it all stripped down, and the corrugated tube going into the rubber sleeve on no. 2 inlet was just hanging in there and wanted to jump out!
Very poor fit, and the tubes are very hard and inflexible, so I'm biting the bullet and renewing the lot with silicon tubing as you suggest.
It will be interesting to find the right sleeving for the Scott Oiler T piece...
Thanks for your help, I'll let you know how it goes.
OK. Replaced the Triumph corrugated vacuum tubing with some nice 6mm Silicon variety, and cable tied all joints to secure.
Started engine and very 'lumpy'. If I blipped the throttle, the revs would drop and engine died. Let it warm up to see if there was any improvement - just a little.
Rode it into my garage, there was a loud tick and the engine died. Very difficult to restart.
Today, started her up and she ran as sweet as a nut - 2k rpm until she warmed up and then sat at 1100 rpm. The bike ran beautifully, with few pop/bangs on override which I am used to with a sports can.
Stopped briefly to buy some bearings, and after that it ran poorly - almost dying and did once, but it started fine. Very lumpy but blipping the throttle didn't cause any bother. It also sat happily at 1000 rpm without dying, but the pop/banging on override was appalling - worst I have heard.
It is better, but still concerned that it has yet to be sorted.
Any other ideas?
BTW. I removed the Lambda sensor when I changed the gearbox, and fitted an M18 spark plug to see if there was low rev improvement. Tempted to refit this - what do you think?
Yes refit the sensor it does contribute to running quality(?). If you have access to TuneECU connect it up and blow in the off road tune for your year, reset TPS and Idle Speed Control, start it up and let it idle for about a minute and switch off via the keyswitch, see if that cures it.
Failing having TuneECU start from cold and let it idle, DO NOT touch anything, when the fan comes on count 12mins and turn it off by the keyswitch.
If you still have probs it is the setings that need adjusting, the poor running at town speed and idle are cured by map adjustment, can email a fixed map to you if needed.
Thanks for that.
I did have the TPS tuned, and the mapping was checked for off road 02, but that was before all the issues with gears etc.
Can they go out of tune?
Yes! Any drop in battery voltage can lead to a corrupt map or set if trims as the ECU doesn't save them properly. Blow in a new one AFTER making sure battery is fully charged.
Quote from: "Champy"Can they go out of tune?
OOOHHHH yes if they have a hissy fit thats it.
Quote from: "Bixxer Bob"Yes! Any drop in battery voltage
And if the voltage goes above 15v regularly,
Don't ask how I know!!!!!
Thanks for that.
I'll book it in with my unfriendly, ridiculously expensive Triumph dealer asap.
I am in Kent if any good to you.
Hmm, well the battery has been playing up and was replaced with a brand new one at the time of the gearbox fix (Winter). It has also been off the bike to try to sort out issues as well, so I see where you guys are coming from regarding the tune.
I'm in Essex, but at the North end (Colchester way), and thanks for the offer of the tune but I'm not sure I have the cables (or knowledge!) to do this work. :roll:
Thanks for all the help guys, this is a superb forum!
Well... spoke to Mr Triumph dealer, and he says there may be some mechanical adjustment on the stepper motor. I can't see how...
Anyway, it is booked in for a diagnostic check and re-map, and at £65/hour, I hope it is just a re-map at i/2 hour... :cry:
Quote from: "Champy"Anyway, it is booked in for a diagnostic check and re-map, and at £65/hour, I hope it is just a re-map at i/2 hour... :cry:
Makes buying the cable (about £10) and downloading TuneECU (free) pretty worthwhile!
Quote from: "Champy"Well... spoke to Mr Triumph dealer, and he says there may be some mechanical adjustment on the stepper motor. I can't see how...
Anyway, it is booked in for a diagnostic check and re-map, and at £65/hour, I hope it is just a re-map at i/2 hour... :cry:
The important part is doing your homework on the dealer,has he been around a decent length of time,Triumphs are oddities you need someone who knows the ropes.
I've neither shimmed or remapped mine,it's the only Tiger I've got so I've no idea if it's any better or worse than others.
I used Windy Corner for years,during that time I've lost track of how many Triumph dealers have come and gone in B'Ham,then a few years back a new dealer turned,stuck with WC knowing full well that Triumph would pull the plug on e'm and by which time Pure Triumph were up and running had some idea what they were doing,cost me £17 quid to have a map put in,way to buzzy at first but has settled down now,one of the few times I ever bumped into retail :(
What cable do I need? USB to D type? Is there a part number somewhere?
Triumph want £60 for a small D type to large D type connector cable which I think is the right one, or £103 for another kind. :o
Or is there a pin out diagram so I can make one up? Also, if you can email me the tune, will that do the TCP and Idle Control?
So many questions - sorry! :?
It's a lot of reading but read the thread on TuneEcu, the cable is a cheap OBD11 cable and a laptop is needed. TBH it is best to do some reading before going near your bike and changing any values, it is very easy to brick the ECU or damage the settings, it goes without saying that help is always at hand.
Quote from: "metalguru"it goes without saying that help is always at hand.
great guys those Triumph riders :thumbsup
OK. New thoughts.
When the engine died after running it for a while, there was a loud click from under the tank - the stepper motor I would suppose.
Could it be that the stepper motor is sticking? I merely cleaned the head without any fluids etc., but could there be just a chance that it is really as simple as sticking?
Or could it be the remap and tune will sort it?
Thought I'd ask before taking it into a dealer who will charge a fortune to remove/refit the tank and ancillaries just to free up the stepper motor. :?
Could be, but I don't think there very user servicible. I seem to remember bixxer taking his apart with disasterous results.
You could try some silicone spray lube, I know that works well for plastic.
John's right, my dissassembled itself all over the garage. You can cycle it with TunECU and listen for it moving. It should be smooth. Don't cycle it off the bike, that's the mistake I made.
I wouldn't use lube either, maybe silicone polish but nothing thats going to attract dirt or fill up the very small clearance between the piston and the body. Remember, the gap is supposed to be pretty much airtight, so it's very very small.