A shaft drive.
Anyone agree?
Why add about 20kg? Some under seat storage would be nice :)
Yeah, I was a little surprised to find sod all underseat space :P
I thought about the weight of a shaft drive, but I'm just getting sick of my chain.
Thing is, if you ride a single seat sport bike your chain tension will always be set up the same. If you buy a versatile bike like the tiger that can be on or off road, one up, two up, luggage, no luggage... e.t.c. Could take a heavy passenger, a light passenger...
Its quick and easy to adjust preload on the rear shocker, but can take longer to adjust the chain. Sometimes I'll be dropping my girlfriend, then riding home or riding to work straight after (this might not seem a problem, but I'm a big guy (23 stone, 6ft) and the mrs is a big girl too (5ft8, size 18-20). So it does make a difference.
I love my Tiger, just wish it had the shaft drive to complete it :P
Hey Dan, the new 1200 has a shaft drive & some extra grunt. It would suit a bigger guy like yourself down to the ground.
Indeed it would. I'd love it, but depends on the job situation next year. I think I'm a bit too young to be buying a new 12k bike!
I've got a stop-gap job now, so I don't have to sell my Girly, but still, not good enough to afford the 1200 tiger :(
It's interesting how a thread like this can go off on a tangent,or more to the point get a tad muddled.
Would I like shaft drive on my Tiger?? would I F*** :twisted: ,I've got two bikes with shaft drive,soaks up too much power,and when they've got mileage on e'm cost hundreds £ to get e'm fixed and a nightmare if you want to change the gearing,the 19t on the tiger must be the best 12 quids worth anywhere in biking,it's taken me 10 years to find a guy who can change the gearing on my 1100s!!!.
Re the chain ajustment!! totally different synario,it's got nothing to do with a chain or shaft,it's the fact that Triumph in 98 still really hadn't got a clue what they were doing and just bolted the shock to the swingarm a cheap option.
I see Dan mention's sports bikes :? could be any modern bike because they all have a rising rate linkage system on e'm that gives you constant chain tension as do the latest Triumphs as Triumph have moved on and learned!!!.
Hence why I've had so much trouble getting my Tiger shock sorted,the qoute being along the the lines of 'Triumph having their heads up their ass's',KTM with their offroad bikes have steadfastly stuck to the no linkage system until the Americans(their biggest market) put their foot down and said 'Change it or else' so they have.
:iagree
Strangely even the big German had trouble with their shaft drive design as in the service schedule the universal joints had to be inspected, but the whole drive depended on a snap ring that if worn or not replaced or even not refitted correctly could render the system useless, costing a fortune to repair, have done loads of these now, the early Goldwings had their fair problems too, used to keep the shafts in stock. Although some will disagree, the 1200 is clearly aimed at the Sport adventure rider where a dusty track is the norm and sealed roads would be its place.
The Girly and its drive system are far more adaptable, although a large outlay at first, an after market shock may be the best way forward built to your specifications and all up weight. The chain adjustment on girlies has always been a problem to get right due to the amount of travel and geometry of the set up.
Yeah, i think you're right that a new firmer shock could help a lot. Its a lot of money though! I'm slowly but surely dropping the belly at the moment, so maybe that will start to help.
Quite agree the shocks are dear, if you have a breakers near you try measuring up a few Jap shocks from the heavier bikes, not really a cure but may be a cheaper alternative. It worked on an old Thunderbird i had once, think it was a VF Honda unit that went on and worked very well.
It's a normal mod to fit a ZX9R shock to the Adventurer. Although the set up is different you get the idea.
Quote from: "BigDan"Yeah, i think you're right that a new firmer shock could help a lot. Its a lot of money though! I'm slowly but surely dropping the belly at the moment, so maybe that will start to help.
Dan
You've lost me 'Dropping the belly' :?
Re a shock,it's the tester!!,god knows how many folk I've come across on all sorts of boards 'Just bought XYZ it's keeper I'll have for years' if thats the case a shock will just transform it,but do they mean it,so they have to look at themselves in the mirror and ask are they telling the truth,because if they are a shock is fantastic investment,and as Timbox on here showed easy to sell afterwards.
There's heaps on here about fuel mapping and wind screens none absolutely NONE will have the effect as a good shock will,with a Wilbers made to you and your other halfs weight the difference between 1 up and 2 up is still there(like mine is) but easyly managable,and to be honest you'll have the same problem what ever bike you buy,no offence meant but you ain't the norm.
I'm 12st,my wife is less than 10st,and my tiger was unridable at any kind of pace with a stock shock so god knows how you 2 get on.
And to give you some idea it's not just Triumph,when I bought my K1200r Sport with 1600 miles on the clock,I/we refused to ride it in the end,we were both so used to quality suspension,and replaced both front and back,although I run 4 bikes which seems extreme,there's a 10 year gap between the first 2 and the second two,chopping and changing bikes is a rich mans past time,hence why I don't don't do it :oops:
I find the rear shock on mine to be fine when riding on my own (even with luggage), but I dont know if my suspension is stock or not as I bought it second hand and its very clear that the previous owner really took care of it.
Re: dropping the belly, I'm losing weight at the minute! lol.
For now I'm gonna raise the preload to max and see how that is.
Got me to thinking
what's needed here is a shock unit that is switchable for conditions.
In the car world there are suspension units that can alter their effectiveness electrically, ie magnets etc, wonder if there is any way to adapt this technology to motorcycles,from readily available car stock???
Perhaps someone who knows about cars will step in here.
Quote from: "metalguru"Got me to thinking
what's needed here is a shock unit that is switchable for conditions.
In the car world there are suspension units that can alter their effectiveness electrically, ie magnets etc, wonder if there is any way to adapt this technology to motorcycles,from readily available car stock???
Perhaps someone who knows about cars will step in here.
On bikes you have two options,either the BMW ESA or Ducati's alternative on their Multistrada,the problem with both is that as soon as the shock wears which is what 10/15000 miles there's no option for upping the anti,hence why loads of BM guys with K's ride one up and the setting is rider/passenger and luggage,getting them worked on isn't easy and a shock for a K rear only comes in at around £1800 !!
I've been offered a Pike's Peak in september but it's the electrical gizmos that's the stumbling block.
Quote from: "BigDan"For now I'm gonna raise the preload to max and see how that is.
How the hell do you ride it??,after 2 885i's the day I bought my 955 I set it at 5 before I even left the shop.
have to agree that a decent shock will deal with any of the issue's mentioned , but its always best to invest in a good quality unit .
wilbers , ohlins personally i wouldnt touch a hagon ive had bad experiences with them in the past
as a big fan of shaft drives i dont feel the tiger needs it they are soooo smooth , though i do get brassed off with all the cleaning :lol:
ive a friend who use these on all his bikes and absolutely swears by them
http://www.mawsolutions.com/html/fourna ... rbers.html (http://www.mawsolutions.com/html/fournales_shock_absorbers.html)
though i cant seem to find the tiger in their listing :?
Quote from: "BigDan"Thing is, if you ride a single seat sport bike your chain tension will always be set up the same. If you buy a versatile bike like the tiger that can be on or off road, one up, two up, luggage, no luggage... e.t.c. Could take a heavy passenger, a light passenger...
Its quick and easy to adjust preload on the rear shocker, but can take longer to adjust the chain. Sometimes I'll be dropping my girlfriend, then riding home or riding to work straight after (this might not seem a problem, but I'm a big guy (23 stone, 6ft) and the mrs is a big girl too (5ft8, size 18-20). So it does make a difference.
Dan, I'm not sure I understand your chain adjusting issue....so are you adjusting the chain tension dependant on the weight on the bike?
Quote from: "JTT"Quote from: "BigDan"Thing is, if you ride a single seat sport bike your chain tension will always be set up the same. If you buy a versatile bike like the tiger that can be on or off road, one up, two up, luggage, no luggage... e.t.c. Could take a heavy passenger, a light passenger...
Its quick and easy to adjust preload on the rear shocker, but can take longer to adjust the chain. Sometimes I'll be dropping my girlfriend, then riding home or riding to work straight after (this might not seem a problem, but I'm a big guy (23 stone, 6ft) and the mrs is a big girl too (5ft8, size 18-20). So it does make a difference.
Dan, I'm not sure I understand your chain adjusting issue....so are you adjusting the chain tension dependant on the weight on the bike?
As there's no rising rate linkage thats the way it is,don't beleave me,sit on the bike lean down check the chain tension,now get a passenger on the back and check again,if you have set the chain as per the book for 1, with two people on it'll be like a banjo string,hence why Dan is having to run it slack.
But having now seen he's not even on setting 5 at his weight no wonder it's like it is :roll:
Quote from: "Chris Canning"As there's no rising rate linkage thats the way it is,don't beleave me,sit on the bike lean down check the chain tension,now get a passenger on the back and check again,if you have set the chain as per the book for 1, with two people on it'll be like a banjo string,hence why Dan is having to run it slack.
But having now seen he's not even on setting 5 at his weight no wonder it's like it is :roll:
Yes, I recognize that the chain will get tighter as the suspension compresses, but regardless, you set chain tension based on maximum distance between countershaft, swingarm pivot and rear axle. If you don't you risk damage to countershaft seals, chains and significantly effected suspension (chain will bind it at full compression).
The safest method to set chain tension, at least in my experience, is to remove the shock (or compress with a strap or someone sitting on it) and swing the rear wheel up (compressing suspension) until the countershaft, swingarm pivot and rear axle are in line....this is the longest distance it can get. If you set a little slack at that point, you will never be too tight through the whole range of the suspension movement...and yes, on the Tiger that will look quite loose.
Well yea!!,you can always tell when your chain tension is correct because everyman and his dog wants to tell you your chain looks slack!!.
The problem in Dans case he's a big guy with a large passenger which means he's using what must be close on max for the suspension travel,and hense has to set the tension for that synario,the problem being when he's only one up thats a lot of slack chain he's got.
The design of the bike doesn't help without a rising rate linkage,but that can ge got round with a quality shock that uses a lot less travel copeing with the weight.
I found my stock Triumph shock garbage with half the weight thats Dan has on his god knows how he rides it,and it's why I've had trouble getting my Ohlins how I wanted it because with two of us on and a fully loaded tank bag and topbox I didn't want a bike that was yawning forwards and backwards on the suspension I wanted a bike that was R1 and I have :D ,it only starts to use up the suspension travel when I'm really pressing on.
But Chris, what you might be forgetting is that in the right scenario, anyone of us can also compress the rear swing arm to its maximum travel and thus do serious damage if the chain is too tight. In fact, there is only one chain setting that is correct regardless of the load on the bike.
Quote from: "Ironhorse"But Chris, what you might be forgetting is that in the right scenario, anyone of us can also compress the rear swing arm to its maximum travel and thus do serious damage if the chain is too tight. In fact, there is only one chain setting that is correct regardless of the load on the bike.
The first bit your right,the second bit your wrong,this is a chain set for two up with gear on my Tiger,when we are on it the amount of slack is perfect,if I only rode 1 up I wouldn't have this amount slack even though I do and have ridden like this it's not ideal.
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h185/wing2541/Spa2011317.jpg)
Just to show what happens when you do compress to the max,French railway crossings normally consist of either one or two set of tracks and large wooden sleepers in between,on being confronted by yet another crossing I just turn the wick up only to realise that the road drops away on the other side so we are airborne at around 110 this is what the caliper does to the can on full compression.
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h185/wing2541/Estoril2012.jpg)
Quote from: "Ironhorse"But Chris, what you might be forgetting is that in the right scenario, anyone of us can also compress the rear swing arm to its maximum travel and thus do serious damage if the chain is too tight. In fact, there is only one chain setting that is correct regardless of the load on the bike.
That's my point, thanks Ironhorse. No matter, what kind of shock, how much or how little weight is on the bike, the swingarm must be able to travel it's full range. Old MX motto, if your not using 100% of the travel at least once in a moto, your setup is off.
In fact I'm not even 100% convinced that rising rate has anything to do with chain tension as the only thing that effects it is the length of the swingarm and the relationship between the rear axle, swingarm pivot and countershaft. Granted, modern linkage (rising rate) rear ends generally have shorter swingarms, which definitely effects chain tension.
(http://www.engineersedge.com/wwwboard/uploads/DRIVE_CHAIN_SLACK.jpg)
This picture makes it a little clearer, I hope. It's irrelevant where the shock is mounted or whether it is attached to linkage.
Quote from: "JTT"Quote from: "Ironhorse"But Chris, what you might be forgetting is that in the right scenario, anyone of us can also compress the rear swing arm to its maximum travel and thus do serious damage if the chain is too tight. In fact, there is only one chain setting that is correct regardless of the load on the bike.
That's my point, thanks Ironhorse. No matter, what kind of shock, how much or how little weight is on the bike, the swingarm must be able to travel it's full range. Old MX motto, if your not using 100% of the travel at least once in a moto, your setup is off.
In fact I'm not even 100% convinced that rising rate has anything to do with chain tension as the only thing that effects it is the length of the swingarm and the relationship between the rear axle, swingarm pivot and countershaft. Granted, modern linkage (rising rate) rear ends generally have shorter swingarms, which definitely effects chain tension.
Why should the swingarm be able to travel it's full range,the bike isn't a motocrosser it's a road bike thats had plenty of PR and some folk beleave it,that don't make it right.
I'd been tinkering with my Ohlins for years,when I rode a Multistrada last year and realised 'Eureka' it is possible to have a big Trallie/adventure bike not yawning backwards and forwards like some boat in a storm I pressed on and got it sorted.
The 955 Tiger rear end is old hat,hence why you don't see it on modern bikes,go look at the new 800/1300, Triumph learned and moved on,I can think of one sports bike that doesn't have a linkage and when it was raced at world level took the entire brains of Ohlins to come up with a clever internal system so as the tyre wore the shock could cope with it,it cost a fortune as opposed to the pennies it costs for a linkage,and hence why in World Supersport Honda do most of the winning and Yamaha do when a sponsor is prepared to pick up a large bill from Ohlins.
Quote from: "JTT"(http://www.engineersedge.com/wwwboard/uploads/DRIVE_CHAIN_SLACK.jpg)
This picture makes it a little clearer, I hope. It's irrelevant where the shock is mounted or whether it is attached to linkage.
KTM have put up the same argument for years as the last bastion of that design and they've dropped it,and now prepared to pay 5 millions dollars for Ryan Dungey to ride for e'm,it doesn't work because all the effort has to go into the shock because they are such great variables that you don't get with a linkage.
it's not an R1 either ....some of us actually use the tigers suspension for what it is , a dual sport
Quote from: "Chris Canning"KTM have put up the same argument for years as the last bastion of that design and they've dropped it,and now prepared to pay 5 millions dollars for Ryan Dungey to ride for e'm,it doesn't work because all the effort has to go into the shock because they are such great variables that you don't get with a linkage.
100% agree. PDS = Piece of Damn Shite. Has big effect on suspension performance, but still has little to do with chain tension.
Quote from: "Chris Canning"Why should the swingarm be able to travel it's full range
Really? This would be akin to raising the forks in the yokes till the tire hit the frame at full compression wouldn't it? If we really only want to use the first 1/2 of the suspension travel, at least take the time to put a travel limiter in the shock so we don't damage things should you incidentally run through a sharp dip, pothole or heave at speed.
No need to jump triples to bottom suspension.
Maybe roads are different on your side of the pond, but around these parts I've been on smoother MX tracks :lol:. I ensure you, even on asphalt, with a shock set perfectly, I will regularly use 70% of the travel and 100% at least a few times per year.
To each his own, but I'll stick with allowing my suspension to work all the way through it's mechanical limits.
In the days before rising rate suspension or should I say linkages and suspension ie early motocossers because of the various tensions that the chain would have to go to it would have to be set at it's most slack(like Dan is having to do) the problem being that chains came off,that was combated with a chain tensioner common even up to the late eighties.
What folks are missing Triumph built the Tiger less than 10 years from when the company started,Triumph have a history of copying others it's a safe route,you could argue that even with the latest 1300 they did the same,modern suspension has moved on and so have Triumph.
Quote from: "boonekaf"it's not an R1 either ....some of us actually use the tigers suspension for what it is , a dual sport
Yes your right,but your in a very small minority,and you still have the same problem as Dan,but his situation hi- lights the problem because of his extra weight.
Quote from: "JTT"Quote from: "Chris Canning"As there's no rising rate linkage thats the way it is,don't beleave me,sit on the bike lean down check the chain tension,now get a passenger on the back and check again,if you have set the chain as per the book for 1, with two people on it'll be like a banjo string,hence why Dan is having to run it slack.
But having now seen he's not even on setting 5 at his weight no wonder it's like it is :roll:
Yes, I recognize that the chain will get tighter as the suspension compresses, but regardless, you set chain tension based on maximum distance between countershaft, swingarm pivot and rear axle. If you don't you risk damage to countershaft seals, chains and significantly effected suspension (chain will bind it at full compression).
The safest method to set chain tension, at least in my experience, is to remove the shock (or compress with a strap or someone sitting on it) and swing the rear wheel up (compressing suspension) until the countershaft, swingarm pivot and rear axle are in line....this is the longest distance it can get. If you set a little slack at that point, you will never be too tight through the whole range of the suspension movement...and yes, on the Tiger that will look quite loose.
Absolutely. I always respect what Chris says but in this instance rising rate or other suspension linkage has nothing whatever to do with how tight the chain gets - it is purely a function of suspension travel and the relative vertical loci of gearbox sprocket, rear wheel sprocket and swinging arm spindle. Maximum tension (ie minimum slack) is when all 3 are in a straight line.
Quote from: "Chris Canning"In the days before rising rate suspension or should I say linkages and suspension ie early motocossers because of the various tensions that the chain would have to go to it would have to be set at it's most slack(like Dan is having to do) the problem being that chains came off,that was combated with a chain tensioner common even up to the late eighties.
What folks are missing Triumph built the Tiger less than 10 years from when the company started,Triumph have a history of copying others it's a safe route,you could argue that even with the latest 1300 they did the same,modern suspension has moved on and so have Triumph.
Not missing this point at all Chris, just saying it has nothing to do with chain tension. Until someone designs a telescopic swingarm, this will never change. Actually back in the early 80's (I believe) there was a mechanical engineer who designed a pair of fixed little sprockets that mounted above and below the swingarm pivot that was supposed to help with tension and more importantly chain torque effect on the rear wheel, but can't remember the name.
Modern solution to chain tensioners:
(http://www.mxsouth.com/carbonfiberworks/carbon-fiber-works-complete-chain-guides-honda-chain-guides_1.jpg)
Without these, modern MXers would have the same issues as the old ones
Bottom line is as iansoady has said, there are only a couple of things that effect chain tension. Take the line drawing in the previous post and mount the shock in any manner you want, Tiger style, linkage, mounted midway up swingarm or at the rear axle like on vintage stuff....no matter how you mount the distance "A" doesn't change. That's all I'm saying. I'm definitely not arguing the benefits of non-linkage suspension systems.
Sorry we'll have to agree to disagree!!,it's all about chain tension and absolutely nothing else hence why Dan has the original problem,you set a Tiger(885i/955) chain set up for one up it's like a banjo string two up,if Dan goes and buys a modern bike he won't have the problem the shock will still struggle but he sure as hell won't be checking chain tension depending on the weight on the bike.
This is the bike I ride most of all I wouldn't dream of having to check the chain tension with a passenger as it's rising rate,it's the same no matter what,no chain guide or tensioner.
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h185/wing2541/Picture045.jpg)
Deep breath, here we go....... JTT's right Chris. No matter where it's mounted or how the shock linkage works, the fundamental length of the swinging arm doesn't change. The ONLY thing to affect the actual tightening or slackening of the chain as the swing arm moves is the position of the output sprocket on the gearbox in relation to the swing arm pivot.
If the front sprocket is in line with the swing arm pivot and the rear sprocket then the chain will be at its tightest then, with a bit of slack at full compression or full extension.
If the front sprocket is above the line between the pivot and the rear sprocket it will be at it's slackest at full compression and tightest at full extension.
If the front sprocket is below the line then the reverse is true.
I'll get me coat........ :lol:
So are you confirming that the 955 is a F up that you don't encounter on any other modern bike :wink:
Sorry Chris you are wrong and you still get the same thing on any modern bike with long travel suspension and chain drive. Whether a suspension has a linkage or not has nothing to do with chain tension, chain tension will vary with rear wheel movement, and the amount it varies will depend on 1) amount of travel and 2) distance between front sprocket centre and swing arm pivot centre or a combination of both.
In the 80's Spondon came up with a frame that had outriggers for the swing arm so it pivoted at the gearbox output shaft, therefore the tension did not change, we could also get into anti squat geometry but that's another can of worms, ask early ZX9 owners.
So why don't you have the same hassle with a Multistrada,my XT660 has heaps of travel and I don't get the problem on there either 1 up 2 up chain tension remains the same, I had two Africa Twins before my first Tiger and that didn't need any ajustment either,so why's that then??,and of course why doesn't anyone else copy the 885'/995 system or more to the point why did Triumph abandon it :wink:
I take my hat to you boys,KTM fought absolute tooth and nail to keep the direct link to the swingarm and were forced by their biggest market to change.
Just to remind you gents,this about Dans problem with weight and excess slack in his chain,a Tiger set up chain tension wise 1 up is unrideable 2 uo,well it is so long as you can stand the vibes or untill the out shaft bearing crys enough.
I think we all agree that Triumph could have been done better. I really like the new Husky's swingarm pivot at the countershaft sprocket. That is ideal, but expensive and rather difficult to change gearing.
What I think I am hearing from Chris, and please correct me if I am wrong, is that he understands that the chain could get too tight but he won't ever get there as a single rider. So he adjusts the chain when he does two-up. Of course the problem arises when, as a single rider, he encounters a large obstacle or depression and it does require a complete travel cycle. At that point damage will incur.
I went to the trouble to line the 3 axes up and gave it a tight adjustment. I then cut a small stick of wood that would tightly fit between the bottom of the swingarm and the chain while on the centerstand. I keep this stick under the seat for future checks. It takes the confusion out of the system.
Joe
:iagree
Basic info from one of the best about chains
http://www.motorcycle.com/products/all- ... -3524.html (http://www.motorcycle.com/products/all-about-chains-3524.html)
QuoteThe best way to check chain tension, the one used by many race teams, is too ask two of your biggest friends to sit on the bike and compress the rear suspension to the point where the wheel spindle, swing-arm bearing bolt and the front chain-sprocket centerline are all in line. That is the point of maximum chain tension. Or you can compress the bike's rear end with a ratcheting tie down. Free up and down movement at the middle of the chain's bottom run should be about half an inch (13 mm) with the suspension compressed.
and it does need to be set this way especially if the bike suspension always has enough load and or movement to go to or past the the point of the straight line axis of the three points
it is quite simple geometry really . it aint rocket science ,it's chain adjustment 101
:wink:
Quote from: "Chris Canning"(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h185/wing2541/Picture045.jpg)
Nice ride! They'd throw me in jail within days :lol:
One thing we are in full agreement on is that linkage suspension systems ARE the deal :wink:
As I explained to Sin Tiger(Nial) tonight I've had more fun on that than any other bike I've ever owned,and I'll either get locked up or fall off it one or the other.
Quote from: "Chris Canning"So why don't you have the same hassle with a Multistrada,my XT660 has heaps of travel and I don't get the problem on there either 1 up 2 up chain tension remains the same, I had two Africa Twins before my first Tiger and that didn't need any ajustment either,so why's that then ???
Chris, we're talking at cross purposes. Rising rate linkage is the dogs, no doubt about it. And Triumph's direct link is neolithic, we are all agreed on that. But rising rate is not the reason why the Stroodle chain tension is hardly affected by suspension movement, its because the front sprocket, swing arm pivot, rear sprocket alignment is near perfect.Like Mustang says its not rocket science, just simple maths. The rest is just a misunderstanding. :wink:
Quote from: "Mustang":iagree
Basic info from one of the best about chains
http://www.motorcycle.com/products/all- ... -3524.html (http://www.motorcycle.com/products/all-about-chains-3524.html)
QuoteThe best way to check chain tension, the one used by many race teams, is too ask two of your biggest friends to sit on the bike and compress the rear suspension to the point where the wheel spindle, swing-arm bearing bolt and the front chain-sprocket centerline are all in line. That is the point of maximum chain tension. Or you can compress the bike's rear end with a ratcheting tie down. Free up and down movement at the middle of the chain's bottom run should be about half an inch (13 mm) with the suspension compressed.
and it does need to be set this way especially if the bike suspension always has enough load and or movement to go to or past the the point of the straight line axis of the three points
it is quite simple geometry really . it aint rocket science ,it's chain adjustment 101
:wink:
Exactly, and it makes no difference whether you are 1 up 2up or whatever, or what suspension system you have, the only way you would want to adjust you chain between 1 up and 2 up is if you ran your suspension so hard solo it never compressed enough to get all three points in line. If there is a problem with the Tiger (and I don't think there is) you could argue that the swing arm pivot is too far away from the front sprocket or it should run rollers like motocross bikes.
And I disagree, there is nothing wrong with direct mounting of the shock, and also KTM have not changed the latest 990 Adventure or the Enduro models they still run direct and still out handles a lot of bikes, it is the shock that is important not the linkage.
Going back to curing or helping Dan's problem , would it be feasible or even possible to rig up an old style chain tensioner sytem on the tiger? :?:
It is possible but one more thing to maintain.
Quote from: "NKL"Quote from: "Mustang":iagree
Basic info from one of the best about chains
http://www.motorcycle.com/products/all- ... -3524.html (http://www.motorcycle.com/products/all-about-chains-3524.html)
QuoteThe best way to check chain tension, the one used by many race teams, is too ask two of your biggest friends to sit on the bike and compress the rear suspension to the point where the wheel spindle, swing-arm bearing bolt and the front chain-sprocket centerline are all in line. That is the point of maximum chain tension. Or you can compress the bike's rear end with a ratcheting tie down. Free up and down movement at the middle of the chain's bottom run should be about half an inch (13 mm) with the suspension compressed.
and it does need to be set this way especially if the bike suspension always has enough load and or movement to go to or past the the point of the straight line axis of the three points
it is quite simple geometry really . it aint rocket science ,it's chain adjustment 101
:wink:
Exactly, and it makes no difference whether you are 1 up 2up or whatever, or what suspension system you have, the only way you would want to adjust you chain between 1 up and 2 up is if you ran your suspension so hard solo it never compressed enough to get all three points in line.
Thats completey at odds with Dans problem,it's the fact he has soft suspension and has so much movement and clearly the chain setting requirments are so drastic,my shock has minimal movement unless things are drastic hence why my chain setting between 1 and 2 isn't a problem.
Is their a problem with the 885i/955?? there has always been,how many postings over the years have we seen on here about chain setting and vibration because if you set the chain as per the book it's no good for two up.
If I ride mine one up I just leave it as is,although if it was any amount of time I'd change it,but Dans situation is at the extreme end,if he buys any other bike he won't have the same problem,the shock might struggle but there'll be no messing with chain tension,it's a crap design.
give it a rest already for fucks sake .......................
Quote from: "Mustang"give it a rest already for fucks sake .......................
Thats what Dans suspension said to him :wink:
Lol Mustang. Even i've stopped posting on this thread :P
Although I will say, the Tiger is no R1 and I don't think anyone should be trying to turn it into one, hah!
But thanks everyone for your help. Whacking the suspension up to max has helped somewhat, so it feels under less stress.
Dan
If all else fails your more than welcome to come down and ride mine,at least it'll give you some idea of were your going with what you want to do with yours or not as the case may be.
Hi Chris,
Thank you kindly for the offer, should we meet I'll have to take you up on it :)
I'll have to make you try mine, see if its as bad as yours was before you modded it.
Cheers
I don't think I've thought of mine as bad,just could be a dam sight better,production bikes are built to a price so thats the way it is,their produced for Mr Average be it the way I ride a bike or your combined weight just means you have to find a solution.
I'd knew what I was after but always had my doubts about either finding or getting it,after riding a Multistrada in sport mode it was one of those great Eureka moments,I'm talking about just the way it rode,nothing is perfect,the tanks on the small side and being a twin a lot more stressed than our triples,but it gave me the push and an insight as to what I was after.