Was riding yesterday and I noticed a hesitation; this turned into a pronounced miss and it runs very rough, strange rattling noise (could be from the miss).
33K miles, original TPS...
Sounds like you "dropped" a cylinder since you are describing a pronounced miss and rough running which could mean spark or fuel. The rattling noise is not described in detail as metallic or a knock could be anything (even an exhaust rattle since it is running rough). Since, a ECM light was not mentioned on --so if it is off, then I would lean to a mechanical issue. If this happened to me, I would first hook up my laptop with my TuneEcu program to "see" what the computer thinks it is seeing (such as the TPS, stored ecm codes, etc.). If everything looked good, I would remove the tank and set it on a stand next to the bike with the fuel line attached (which is a single line on a 2006). Inspect all hoses/lines looking for bad vacuum lines, etc. If I didn't find anything, then I would remove the air box to inspect the coil pack connectors to ensure I had a good connection. If I didn't find anything at this point, I would start the bike and let idle (which would be the same point I would be at to balance the throttle bodies). If I experienced the same conditions as before, I would remove each coil pack electrical connector to isolate the cylinder. If I didn't have a change in rpm, then that would be the cylinder in question. I would then inspect the spark plug for this cylinder for wear, for fouling, or for whiteness (absence of fuel which could be an injector or fuel delivery issue).....and on to the next step.......
You will notice I am using quite a few "If"s since I am speculating based on the information you have provided. At least it should be a point to get started diagnosing your issue you are experiencing. I wouldn't look into other issues without covering the basics first. At 33k you could be due for new plugs, fuel filter, balancing throttle bodies, etc depending on your maintenance history.
The "miss" is somewhat intermittent, or not. When riding the bike home, it didn't seem to respond like a dropped cylinder, it was obvious under acceleration but not so much while cruising.
The rattling noise: metallic in nature
Since, a ECM light was not mentioned: OFF
Plugs: 5-7K miles
throttle bodies were OK at 30K miles when I adjusted the valves
I don't have access to TuneECU...
start by finding the cylinder that's not running or cutting out and swapping the coil packs around .
sounds like a coil problem to me if it is dropping under load .
I agree. If it is happening under "load" most common is a spark issue and swapping the coil packs around to see if the problem follows is certainly a good test to do. Some have experienced connector issues at the coil packs as well. Does the metallic noise only happen when the "miss" occurs but goes away when the bike smooths out?
I had this problem last year.
Check that the blue clips are connected to your coil packs. My center cylinder plug popped off the coil pack just enough to cause an intermittent miss. When I got on the throttle and rev's would pick up the vibration with cause the plug to giggle loose, drop a cylinder, and run rough and have a 'ping' noise.
I changed the plugs, swapped around the coil packs (just for the heck of it) re-installed the clips and zip-tied the locking tabs on the clips to ensure they won't slip off again.
Spark plug bits from #2 plug are in the cylinder...
Evidently I didn't torque it down correctly, it vibrated loose and dropped the side and center electrode into the cylinder. Tried to fish the bits out with a magnet hot glued to a piece of solid conductor copper wire , now I have a magnet in the cylinder
Looks like I'm going to pull the motor and remove the head, however you do that, and see what damage is done.
*ka-ching* $$$$$$$$$$ (http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/2uoykcuf/emoticons/cashwallet.gif)
I'm not even sure its worth tearing down...
It will be expensive ......when the bits are bouncing around in the running cylinder , generally they will dent the piston along the side enuf to distort the ring grooves and cause the ring/rings to stick and not move on the piston , and the valves usually get trashed ,
at the bare minimum you are looking at a gasket set $$$$$$$ (triumph thinks they are made of gold btw)
new piston for #2 and a ring set for all three .......$300 or so
new valves for #2 and pray it didn't fuck the seats up 100 or so
if valve seats screwed ...........you need a new head . huge money or go used ebay route
and you will need a 20 dollar tube of hylomar to seal the cylinder liners
and THE #1 thing you will need is the ability and know how to do the repair ....it aint for the novice mechanic or faint of heart.
If you want a shop to do it , well your right about 1 thing ......... there are Tiggers for sale that would be cheaper to buy than bill will be !
Well, I'm hoping that the two tiny little bits did minimal damage but the bike was limped home so it ran a while. I bought the bike as a salvage with only cosmetic damage for $2600. If it is anything serious, I'll try and find a motor or sell it as a parts bike.
I haven't really looked but can the head be removed without dropping the motor?
Just before pulling the engine apart it may be a good idea to get a vacuum cleaner with strong suction and put it over the plug hole. It may at least get the magnet back, and if you are lucky some of the bits of plug. Handy if both valves are closed.
its a lot easier to drop the motor , only a few bolts hold it in .
Quote from: metalguru on September 07, 2012, 07:41:00 PM
Just before pulling the engine apart it may be a good idea to get a vacuum cleaner with strong suction and put it over the plug hole. It may at least get the magnet back, and if you are lucky some of the bits of plug. Handy if both valves are closed.
I was thinking similar, but make up a tube to go into the cylinder so you can poke around while it sucks.
If this happened to me, I would be pulling the motor to remove the head to inspect. I never have had the luck of vacuuming out all foreign metal bits so I always have to pull the head to remove all of the debris. Besides, knowing what happened I would want to inspect everything in that cylinder since I never had any luck "seeing" everything with a boroscope. Depending on what I found when I removed the cylinder head will tell me which way to go....if it is not worth repairing-- the motor is out anyways; if it is then I will repair it properly and will be much easier to work on since the motor is out.
Even if it is as horrible as Mustang's description, you wont know until you look inside and the only thing it has cost you to that point is your time. I will be more positive here and say that it wont be as bad as you think.
If you don't want to pull the head but are ok with dropping out the engine, simply try turning the engine up-side-down.
See what falls out of the spark-plug hole.
Oh drain the oil & coolant first.
Then do a compression test and compare with other cylinders.
Good Luck
Loops
PS was going to suggest turning the whole bike up-side-down but that seems a bit silly.
I'm going to fish all I can out of the motor, do a compression test and then based on what I find, change the oil and run it.
I always run Mobil 1 10-40 but can't see using $55 worth of oil to flush the motor.
Any suggestions as to a cheap oil to run for a quick flush?
How about flushing oil????
If you google Shell flushing oil there's aPDF to read.....
Quote from: Fe Man on September 18, 2012, 05:33:47 PM
I'm going to fish all I can out of the motor, do a compression test and then based on what I find, change the oil and run it.
I always run Mobil 1 10-40 but can't see using $55 worth of oil to flush the motor.
Any suggestions as to a cheap oil to run for a quick flush?
.
Quote from: Mustang on September 18, 2012, 08:49:17 PM
Quote from: Fe Man on September 18, 2012, 05:33:47 PM
I'm going to fish all I can out of the motor, do a compression test and then based on what I find, change the oil and run it.
I always run Mobil 1 10-40 but can't see using $55 worth of oil to flush the motor.
Any suggestions as to a cheap oil to run for a quick flush?
.
?
99 cent walmart oil is fine it's only going to be in there for a short time ............. :thumbsup
Ducky149 from AD rider appeared in the driveway this evening with a bore scope and we made headway!
Here is the plug:
(http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/rr318/FeMan/Tiger%20Damage/004_zps1014aa01.jpg?t=1348020881)
Here is what was recovered from the cylinder and intake port:
(http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/rr318/FeMan/Tiger%20Damage/006_zps504b01a6.jpg?t=1348020903)
The verdict is a bent valve and a strip spark plug hole. Compression on 1 and 3 is 130lbs; 2 was zero until I applied Teflon tape to the threads then we got about 30 lbs. With the valves closed we the hit the cylinder with compressed air and hear air rushing out of the #2 intake; obviously a valve issue.
Tomorrow the engine comes out.
OUCH! Good luck on the strip down