I test rode a GS1200 on 1st Feb at SPC Alton. My conclusions are as follows :-
ENGINE ; quite pokey with lots of Ïget up & goÓ between 4.5K & 7K. It red lines at 8250rpm. Not a lot below 3K. In fact I stalled it a few times trying to pull away gently. Let the revs drop too low and youÌre greeted with the BMW shake & judder. At 4K (70mph in top) itÌs dead smooth but everywhere else it vibrates a bit. I think it could get annoying on a long ride. The clutch is very sudden which contributed to the stalling.
HANDLING ; the steering is very light but without any stability problems. Neutral in corners. The suspension is too stiff making the ride very jiggly at slower speeds. The salesman described it as ÏsportyÓ. I prefer the suspension to absorb bumps not crash into them. I didnÌt notice anything wrong with the Paralever rear, which means that it must work OK. Of course you get the Ïanti-diveÓ effect with the Telelever front end which is a good thing because the brakes were very good at speed. However, at slow speeds they were very sudden, meaning that it was difficult to stop smoothly. The lever has no give in it, which means that there is little feel to the brakes. ItÌs a good job ABS is an option. The whole bike feels quite light so doing a bit of off-road should be OK.
COMFORT ; ergonomics were good. The seat was comfortable over the 50 miles I covered. The reach to the bars was typical trailie. The poor ride quality would spoil a good ride for me. I still donÌt think the switchgear is right i.e. the designer who assigned the lower LH button as the indicator instead of the horn, needs to be shot. The clocks were easy to read with lots of info in the LCD panel. Aerodynamics is OK. There is no buffeting but there is still a fair amount of wind roar. No wind hits your chest or head.
The cost of all this with Heated grips, ABS, luggage...£10500 OTR.
Comparing the above to my Tiger ;
ENGINE ;
If the GS has any advantage it is power and torque but itÌs not by much if at all. The Tiger has more and is useable between 1K and 3K.
The Triumph engine is smooth everywhere. The GS is not.
The Tiger clutch is more progressive and easier to control. The GSÌs is lighter.
HANDLING ;
I prefer the Tiger suspension. It has more give in it and thus gives a smoother ride but is still well damped and controlled. Not much in it going round corners.
GS has the better brakes at speed but the Tigers are less grabby at low speeds. GS feels, and is, lighter.
The steering is lighter on the GS.
COMFORT ;
The Tiger has the better ride quality. Also has standard switchgear so itÌs easy to switch (sic) between different bikes.
CanÌt read the Tiger clocks under street lighting. CouldnÌt try the GS at night but has to be better.
Aerodynamics better on the GS. The Tiger has buffeting problems.
The cost of a Tiger with heated grips and luggage (no ABS yet)....£6999 OTR.
CONCLUSION :-
So thatÌs a difference in cost of £3501.
Is the GS better? In some areas, yes. Is it £3500 better? No way!
Is it a significant step forward? No.
IÌll be keeping the Tiger for the foreseeable future. IÌll wait to see what Triumph do in 2006.
Interesting reading about the motor,the biggest contradiction i've come across reading various mags and personnel assements is the performance aspect,in the latetest Bike mag he reckoned the Tiger had the quicker engine but most figures i've seen say the GS is.
Chris
A bit like something i said in another thread
Me and BP looked at all manner of bikes at this show but we both came to the same conclusion...................we honestly couldnt find anything we would swap our tiger for except maybe a newer one,lots of lovely bikes but nothing that offers the practicality,speed/power,looks,and value of the tiger all in one package.
KTM 950 adv nice but too much expensive plastic ,and that skinny saddle aint made for 500 mile days the kind of rider they expect is gonna be stood on the pegs for great lengths of time.
I personally used to be a fan of the GS(couldnt justify the extra ££££££s) but that thing is getting to look too space age,the BMW range seems to be morphing in to one machine.
How long before they do away with the adventure ?
Got to agree with your thoughts on cost etc but i will admit to not test riding one.
Quote from: "Blacktiger"I test rode a GS1200 on 1st Feb at SPC Alton. My conclusions are as follows :-
Bravo to you for getting out there and playing the field. I'm with you on value (http://www.triumph-tiger.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=836&highlight=gs) (and especially those f^&*%#g turn signals), but not on power...don't our cats make more hp and more torque? From a smaller engine too?
Not according to any of the facts and figures i've seen they don't.
Chris
I don't think it matters regarding power - they are close enough that the difference is totally irrelevant.
Not in my book it ain't.
Chris
Quote from: "Chris Canning"Not according to any of the facts and figures i've seen they don't.
Ooo-kay...
The R1200GS displaces 1170 cc, makes 100 horsepower, and 85 lb-ft of torque (according to BMW motorrad).
The Tiger displaces 955 cc, makes 104 bhp, and 67 lb-ft of torque (according of course to Mother Triumph).
So I was only 2/3 right--on the displacement and horsepower figures. Too bad the BMW requires like 20% more displacement and an extra $4000 to make up the extra torque...and still comes up sucking on hp. Funny though, I think b/c of the power distribution curve I always
felt the Tiger to be torque-ier. Torquier. More torque-y. Whatever.
Mea culpa.
More horsepower? Who needs more horsepower? My 885 has more than enough.....really....just only hit 100 mph yesterday testing out the tires after having the bike for six months. No problem getting there quickly from 80 mph with alot more to go.
>Not in my book it ain't.
What ain't?
I don't really buy the "but it needs more displacement which sucks" argument. I've heard that from a Honda VFR owner, who didn't buy a Sprint ST because it "needs more displacement to make the same power". I don't really care about the bhp/liter equation. What matters is the engine's power and delivery characteristics.
After he spent a year trying to get his VFR to deliver power smoothly and spent a fortune on expensive maintenance because it's a complex engine, I think he saw my point.
Anyway to get back to the original point, I think worrying about a few pounds of torque or a few HP is missing the point - does this mean the bike with the highest figures is the fastest for any given rider?
I doubt it.
Besides, if you're riding a late model Tiger to the full extent of its abilities either on the road or off, and you feel that you need more power, at least your concerns will probably be short lived. You won't keep that pace for long without something horrific happening.
All joking aside. The HP, assuming you have a decent amout, and the same for torque has little to do with anything. How the power comes on, is more important and how it feels when you're riding it in every day conditions. Last but not least lets not forget rider skill. When I was heavily involved in off road riding it was 80% rider and 20% bike, bikes being relatively equal.
Nice review H...I think that's the first time anyone's compared the Tiger directly with the GS12 on this thread.
Obviously it's business as usual with the brakes, vibration, agricultural drivetrain,etc etc.
Surprised that all the development and redesign thrown at the bike hasn't made it significantly better than the Tiger.
Sort of leaves the field up for grabs for Triumph when they do a proper upgrade.
When I test drove the 12, it was hard to say if the engine was anymore powerful than the 955 as it was pretty tight & had some vibes. I seriously doubt that even a broken-in 12 can blast a 955 in a drag. Buffeting was NOT good on the 12. The gearbox was smooth but still had a bit of the clunk going into 1st. I didnt really like the feel of the bike especially with the 2 piece seat. I felt to far forward and leaning forward. The bike felt great in the turns but overall the bike didnt really do it for me.
As the great Mike Hailwood said you only need around 85bhp for road riding, because you can use all of it. I agree, I came to the Tiger from a Thunderace, which has around 45-50bhp more at the rear wheel. It didn't go any quicker unless in a straight line, which was fun to use but hardly needed, and definitely left me very nervous about my licence. You get all the fun you need on a Tiger and if you feel that way it's not hard to stuff a sportsbike, sportsbike riders are mostly dick wavers or followers of fashion, lets face it. As for the GS, they just don't feel £3,500 better than a Tiger.
Peak HP figures can be fairly misleading. What really matters is the area under the curve. To see this you really need to compare dyno charts. I think a rider will 'feel' he or she's riding a more powerful bike (and perhaps is) when most of the HP (tourque) is available throughout the usable engine speed range. How many of us ride our bikes at redline under normal circumstances?
Also, from reviews I've seen in Motorcycle Consumer News, manufactuerer's HP ratings are typically inflated and usually reflect crank HP and not rear wheel numbers. Not that they are intentionally inflated, they probably are taken from tip-top test engines and not regular production models.
That's my $0.02 worth.
Kurt
Hi Gents
Blimey it's amazeing how these threads go of at a tangent!! there's two separate points, as far as HP is concerned i'm happy ish!!! with my 955,I never was with my 885 and as soon as the 955 came out bought one,jeeze when we rode from Barcelona in 2003 rode for the best part of 14 hours at three figures and even at that speed it could still respond if I needed it,and did!!
The point i was makeing about the B/T's comment when he mentioned peformance was in the 2 Wheels mag they gave exstensive figures for top end speed and roll on's at speed and the GS was better at both,the guy in the Bike mag while saying he thought the GS was a better all round buy, said that the Tiger was faster in a straight line,so theres a contradiction,but certainley BM have found some speed from somewhere cuz my 955 would murder an 1150 performance wise
Chris
A couple of comments above about the gearbox/drive train. Actually, I didn't notice the gearbox. So I guess it was pretty good... for a BMW. It went into first at a stand quietly, without a clunkor jerk, as it should being a dry clutch which shouldn't have any drag. On the move it worked as good as anything I've ridden. So it looks like BMW have stripped and copied a Suzuki gearbox.
Quote from: "ridin gaijin"don't our cats make more hp and more torque? From a smaller engine too?
No. According to Triumph the Tiger make 104bhp (at the crank?) & 67 lb/ft. The BMW makes 100?bhp & 85lb/ft.
Acceleration is mostly dependent on torque so, in theory, the BMW should accelerate quicker. But then gearing and weight come into the equation as well. So, as I said previously, you would have to get them side by side.
Take a look at this :- http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread ... adid=37036 (http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37036) to see the hornets nest I've stirred up. Ain't it great poking a sharp stick in?
I just hope that it takes me less time to bump into a well ridden GS1200 then it did an 1150,trying find any of e'm doing over 80 was hard enough!!!,as i've changed wheels,brakes and suspension on my Tiger takeing on a MODERN GS doesn't hold any fears i can tell you.
Chris
I can't believe a bloke over there reckoned the GS was more attractive than the Tiger and therefore worth the extra wedge. You'd have to be blind and pissed to think it was a more attractive bike.
Having read those two pages of comments, I'd quite like to try out a GS just for the sake of doing so, but I don't think I'd buy one on the principle that I wouldn't want everyone thinking I was a total coconut.
When they launched the GS i got an invite as i own an S,what i couldn't work out was how many of the guys who had ordered a new 1200 told me they were on their 4th 0r 5th 1150GS!!!! which seemed a little odd.
Chris
:lol: Great stuff BlackTiger !! I am about to go to bed having a good laugh. Talk about up setting the natives ! I think you have some bottle to put that post on the GS site. I think you must feel like custer surrounded by indians at the 'little Bighorn'. :shock:
In my life I seem to have owned most of the trailees out there ( apart from a Suzuki and a KTM) It is all horse's for course's. I have promised her indoors I wil keep the Tiger for a few years otherwise I will be 'hung' from the clothes line. She also bought me goodies for it at crimbo such as Touratech stuff.
I tend to agree with you, if they were the same price the old Tigger would not get a look in, but they are not. Still I enjoyed the GS I owned, and I am am enjoying Tiger as much. My fillings are also all still in place. No more dentistry. hehehehe I might support you on that thread yet :D
I've just read some of the replies to Howard's post on the GS site.
Fairly typical of GS12 owners I'd say (and bless 'em for it...).
But how do you think us lot would react to a GS owner coming on here and criticising the Tiger?
Well give it some thought 'cos it could happen!
I aint sayin' no more 'cos I've said enough already on the GS/Tiger debate.
Hopefully one of them will,i just hope some of the boys on this site that wear blinkers handle it as well as they did.
Of course their problem will be finding the correct site!!!,the politics of owning a GS are somewhat less complicated than owning a Tiger,2 yahoo sites,this one,Triumph RAT how many more???
Chris
Quote from: "Blacktiger"Quote from: "ridin gaijin"don't our cats make more hp and more torque? From a smaller engine too?
No. According to Triumph the Tiger make 104bhp (at the crank?) & 67 lb/ft. The BMW makes 100?bhp & 85lb/ft.
Acceleration is mostly dependent on torque so, in theory, the BMW should accelerate quicker. But then gearing and weight come into the equation as well. So, as I said previously, you would have to get them side by side.
See my prior post on this 2/3. Same thread. Been there etc. Works better if you read what's come before.
Quote from: "Blacktiger"Take a look at this :- http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread ... adid=37036 (http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37036) to see the hornets nest I've stirred up. Ain't it great poking a sharp stick in?
I'm in awe--
Gaijin Troll-o-meter:
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0.1..2..3..4.5..6..7..8..9..MAX
Anyway. I'd still love to own a R1200GS. And I'd STILL rather ride with a BMW rider, than drive behind a BMW driver!
You lot want to check out the GSers on their site now...I think they've forgotten what Howards original post was about...they're too busy barking at one another.
IF THIS SITE EVER GETS THAT BAD I'M OUT OF HERE.
:lol: He did'nt half cause a storm :lol: Anyway, today, Monday I was out on my beast, nice day no work, sun and dry roads, (heha) I stopped at a favorite butty place in Bristol and a few moments later a GS1200 pulled up and parked right next to me. We had a good old natter as you do, but what surprised me was mine seemed to dwarf the GS12. When next to 1150 not the case. The 1200, side by side, certainly seems a lot smaller ? Roll on Spring !!
Amen to that brother. And lets remember...it don't matter a f...k what we ride. We're ALL waiting for Spring!
Great comparison BlackTiger, thanks for taking the time to write it up.
I can't comment on the ride / build quality as have never owned one, however, I did base my choice when picking the Tiger on the price tag - 3.5K is a lota extra paper.
Went to my local BM dealer on saturday for an oil filter for the S,there was a shop full of already sold GS's i guess for the new reg in march,i couldn't help thinking how small it was but had to smile,he'd put 020's front and back, which looked like they'd come of a bicycle in comparison to the 180 i run on the back of mine.
Chris
Quote from: "WildeKurt"Also, from reviews I've seen in Motorcycle Consumer News, manufactuerer's HP ratings are typically inflated and usually reflect crank HP and not rear wheel numbers.
Kurt
Based on the little research I have done the Tiger dyno's at about 89.5 hp at the rear wheel and the GS is just over 86.
Not a lot of difference.
I personally have never ridden a GS. Never seen a need to. I am happy with my Tiger.
-
Thanks for the support guys.
Two comments :-
1/ They do tend to jump on the defensive wagon quickly. I thought my write up was fair and unbiased. You can't help but compare any test ride to the bike you currently own. Hence my comparing the GS to the Tiger.
2/ When I had my R100GS and the GSclubUK started up, a lot of the guys had R1100GS's. As soon as the 1150 was anounced, about 80% of them jumped to the new model. Then the 1150 Adventure came out and a lot of them swapped from the ordinary 1150 to that. And now the 1200 has come out they're all jumping onto that! There seems to be more money than sence in the GS fraternity!!
Anyway, we can all be smug knowing the BMW have only caught up (not overtaken) with Triumphs 5 year old design. Hopefully there'll be a new 1050 Tiger next year to leave them all way behind again.
I don't think either bike's "better" and I have no problem with people critiquing what I ride. I buy bikes for my own reasons and derive satisfaction from them - I hope other people do the same on whatever they ride.
Personally I fully admit to being partial to Triumph as a brand - it's not because they're the best bikes, but for a number of reasons they seem like the best for me. I have had nothing but good experiences with them and there's a bit of patriotism there too, I am sure. I don't want to persuade the world that they should buy one too, I like having something relatively unique. Plus it'd be bloody boring bench racing up at the coffee shop if everyone was on the same machines.
It's important to be open minded - I thought your review was, and their responses were not. Hopefully if someone ever does visit this site singing the praises of the GS (which is by most accounts an excellent motorcycle) they will get more balanced discussion, rather than "That bloody bike is f$%k ugly".
Adam
Quote from: "SIBBO"...but that thing is getting to look too space age,the BMW range seems to be morphing in to one machine.
How long before they do away with the adventure ?
Hey SIBBO - copy that. Have you seen the new "R" bikes? Holy Crap Batman! The R series has got to be some of the craziest looking orgami bullshizz that Munich has cobbled together thus far. Even BMW's auto designs have gone to hell.
Quote from: "ridin gaijin"...And I'd STILL rather ride with a BMW rider, than drive behind a BMW driver!
I'll second that. I am actually in a BMW riders club here in Lubbock. Dust Bowl Beemers is the name. I was fishing around for a bike and became aquainted with these guys around the city, and they encouraged me to join, BMW or not. I am the only Triumph rider among about 20+ BMWs, a Honda ST1300 and an FJR, and a couple of Harleys (which are owned by former BMW riders.) They are really great folks, as most in this area on two wheels are.
However, some wiseguy always asks me why my Truimph is not leaking oil at each rest stop, :P
The post below is my final post to them on this subject. I'm not going to be drawn in any more. :lol:
This is my final post on this subject. ItÌs a bit of a story but stick with it and youÌll understand where IÌm coming from on this.
In a previous career, which ended in redundancy, I was a mechanical engineering designer, working on tobacco machinery like cigarette making and packaging machines. The job of a designer is to assess the requirements and design a part or mechanism to satisfy those requirements. Also, to look at existing designs to assess whether they can be improved. The latter is most relevant to this thread. When the new design is finished, it is judged against the old one to assess if it is better or not.
Now, in 30 years of riding bikes, IÌve realized that the perfect bike does not exist. When I tested the GS12 I had to judge it against what I knew best, that being my Tiger. If I had owned a Honda VFR I would have judged it against that. My assessment of the GS was that it fell short in a few areas. That is my honest opinion to which IÌm fully entitled. You are, of course, entitled to disagree.
IÌve encountered the sort of reaction I got before when talking to BMW owners. Back in 1996, I had a Yamaha TDR250. A great little buzz saw of a bike, but no good for touring. So I was look for something to start exploring the back lanes and dirt tracks around Europe. A good friend of mine is a long term owner of a R80GS. He said ÏYes, the GS can be made to work quite wellÓ. IÌll repeat that for those wearing blinkers ; He said : ÏYes, the GS can be made to work quite wellÓ.
With that in my head I went off and bought the R100GS that I owned until last year. The first thing I found ÏwrongÓ with it was that the forks were horribly under damped. The wheel felt as if it was bouncing off the road when it hit a bump. The GSclubUK didnÌt exist then, so I asked member/owners in the pipe & slippers club for advice. I received several replies along the lines of ; ÏIf thatÌs the way BMW designed it, then thatÌs good enough for meÓ. I now believe that a lot of you GS12 owners fall into that category. I went on to experiment with fork oil weights and came up with a concoction that several other GSclub members, elsewhere on this forum, have used and approved.
Other things I went on to modify were :- Front brake hose changed to ÏGoodrichÓ. Engine twin plugged & gas flowed by Jim Cray. Air box modified to HPN spec. Carburation sorted, by me, to suit. Rear shock changed to Hagon, then Ohlins. Seat reupholstered with more padding. Screen cut down to reduce buffeting. Renthal bars installed. And, do you know what? When the rest of the crap designed BMW bits (like the gearbox, drive shaft, starter motor & generator rotor) hold together, the GS can be made to work quite well!
So, can I suggest to you lot that you start assessing the bike that BMW sold to you, and make a note of those little things that annoy you and set about modifying them. You will then move your bike a bit closer towards that illusive Ïperfect bikeÓ. Of course to start that process, youÌve, first, got to pull you head out of BMWs arse!
Good point mate.
The current BMW only great until the new one comes along.
No bike is perfect you have to work with what you've got. I had a mate in Aberdeen who could run rings round almost everyone with 15 year old 400cc bike. Just because you've got the latest and best bike doesn't mean you can use it effectivily, You always read (in the UK bike press anyway) of some old traffic copper with a beat up of R80 losing our talented bike press on the latest Jap super missile.
I think the trick is to find a bike you can live with and keep for as long as you want or maybe I'm completely wrong and bikes are fashion statements. The only really new techno-bit I'm really interested in is ABS brakes : Go on some state you can out brake it, well I bloody can't out brake ABS and I know few that can.
Hi BT
Two things surely that post should have been on the GS board?? but more importantly how good is Jim Cray with BM's??
Chris
:shock: Don't post that on the GSers site BlackTiger................................................... Oh feck !! he has. The world will never be the same again :lol: Yet again I am going to bed in stiches. Ohhhhhhhhhhhh what fun :D
ps You failed to mention the brake failures with the servo assisted brakes which I keep seeing pop up over there !! ( as well as final drive)
Now I am doing it !!
Motocycle Consumer News did a test and despite a total failure of the electronically controlled brakes during the road test they still deemed it a great bike. Me, I like to go, sure, but I'm pretty fond of stopping when I want too. I don't get motorcycle journalists.
Kurt
I just found out yesterday that the president of the Land of Enchantment (i.e., New Mexico) BMW Riders club rides a...
Triumph Tiger.
Looks like an 05 in Orange. That man has taste.
Servo assisted brakes are brilliant (if a little "wooden").
Until you try wheeling the bike 'round an inclined car park with the engine off.
Quote from: "Chris Canning"Hi BT
Two things surely that post should have been on the GS board?? but more importantly how good is Jim Cray with BM's??
Chris
I did!
Jim is very good with the air cooled BMWs. He obtained his knowledge the hard way by racing in "The battle of the twins".
Quote from: "trotts"ps You failed to mention the brake failures with the servo assisted brakes which I keep seeing pop up over there !! ( as well as final drive)i
I could have gone on all day about the "so called" BMW reliability myth.
The VSTROM is better all round.
The GS has one factor you fail to mention-PRESENCE.
I have owned a few bikes mainly super bikes, and must say that BMW has status. It could be argued that this is not important, but I ride for pleasure. The status and presence ads to the overhaul pleasure of riding.
I own a 05 Vstrom which is certainly better than the Tiger (and cheaper)
and probably better than the GS, but I have still ordered the BMW. Not intended to start a war. just test them.
There is justÓ something" riding and owning a GS. Would never have brought the 1150.
Quote from: "Bar"The GS has one factor you fail to mention-PRESENCE.
status.
The status and presence ads to the overhaul pleasure of riding.
There is justÓ something" riding and owning a GS.
You're right, Bar. Be sure to get a BMW cigaretter lighter, keychain, riding suit, flashlight, polo-shirt, rainsuit.... Oh, and don't forget the BMW condoms - You won't need 'em, but you'd better have some.
It's the 'status', you see. Imagine the 'pleasure' you'll enjoy, merely from the feeling that everyone around you KNOWS you ride a BMW. It says something about a man...
It says you're a geek. The kind of a guy who'd post to a thread that's been dead for 16 months, about YOUR BMW. You have a 'presence' about you, whether on the road, on just lolling about a filling station enjoying a brief respite from the highways, smoking a Virginia Slim and taking a sip of Perrier from your BMW Liquid Hydration System Pak... And waiting to tell any passer-by about your BMW motorcycle.
It says 'you've arrived', and that's a good thing. You'll be arriving at your dealership more often, where you can talk about your BMW, frequently, while the service dept. takes you for all they can. Maybe you'll be arriving at your bank more often, too. Just to explain that overdraft - you know, the one you had for what you THOUGHT was going to be a 'routine maintenence' visit, but turned into something else.
It says 'you're cool'. You can park beside some PTA moms at The Green Frog for brunch, and tell 'em, "It's a BMW". You can tell the check-out-girl at your local fueling stop 'what you paid for your bike'. You can also impress small neighborhood children with your BMW Venting Machine Suit riding gear, Garmin GPS/FRS/GMRS radio/radar/laser/heatseekingmissle detector, Blaupunkt MP3 player, Shoei TC-5 helmet, Italian riding boots, (wow - were you in Star Wars?)...That is, until they drift up the street to see that guy's Fatboy with all that chrome - HE'LL start it up for them and let 'em experience that 'whump whump whump' ("just twist that throttle, kid... sounds cool, don't it?").
Yeah, you'll have status. Presence. Just like... Steve McQueen?
Oh... No, more like Pee-Wee Herman.
Good luck with your BMW (snarf, snarf, snarf). Oh, by the way, the GS is the other BMW model that suffers catastrophic rear-drive failure. An example, from the NHTSA:
2002 BMW R1150GS MOTORCYCLE SUFFERED A FAILURE OF THE FINAL DRIVE ASSEMBLY IN THE SHAFT DRIVE MECHANISM. THERE WAS NO WARNING. THE SEAL BLEW OUT AND THE SHAFT BEARINGS DISINTEGRATED CAUSING THE WHEEL TO HOP UP AND DOWN SEVERELY AT ABOUT 70 MPH. I WAS ABLE TO PULL THE BIKE OVER SAFELY WITHOUT A CRASH. THE ENTIRE FINAL DRIVE WILL HAVE TO BE REPLACED. FORTUNATELY, IT IS STILL UNDER WARRANTY. HAD IT FAILED LITERALLY 30 SECONDS EARLIER, I WOULD HAVE BEEN LEANED WAY OVER IN A VERY TIGHT CORNER AND THE LIKELIHOOD OF A SERIOUS ACCIDENT WOULD HAVE BEEN EXTREMELY HIGH. THE LEAKING GEAR OIL COATED THE REAR TIRE CAUSING IT TO BECOME VERY SLICK. IT ALSO COATED THE REAR BRAKE PADS CAUSING THEM TO BECOME INEFFECTIVE. THE BIKE IS NOW AT THE DEALERSHIP AWAITING REPAIRS
Don't bother looking for reports like that on Triumph - there aren't any. Just enjoy the presence your status is going to give you around others. After all, you're the kind of guy who thinks a V-Strom is the best thing going, but you'd rather ride a BMW, because it'll get you some attention(?).
Sucker.
Very well said JRO! You put in prose, so accutely, many of my own sentiments. That FINAL DRIVE FAILURE at speed is the dirtiest non-secret that I know about concerning any wheeled vehicle. That one really bothers me.
Also, I thought that this post was familiar.... I posted on it over 1 year ago. At that time I thought my local two-wheeled BMW brethern were cool people. Wrong! One the whole they are arrogant and eletist. The only guy I ride with that is BMW is Duaner out of Austin, and he is more than willing to curse the BMW sales and service system. He loves the handling and power of his LT, however you never heard such bitching about the service department at Lonestar.
Bar: I really hope you will stick with the forum. And please, the V-strom thing? Please re-think that. Go ride a Tiger. Go and dive head first into the Celtic blood of Triumph and you will see that not only is the Suzuk not as well built as the Triumph, but it also lacks a soul.
Posted by me at i-bmw.com
Well...I sold my K1200GT. After a few ABS failures (R1150RT twice and 1 on the GT), I've decided to move to a Triumph Tiger. I loved my BMW's but just felt I couldnt trust the servo's. I looked hard at a GS but agin...didnt want to mess with the servo braking system. I have really enjoyed my time here..and learned much. See you down the road....
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CanÌt forget the Servo breaking system, the German Lawsuit against BMW for them or the recall in the US for a "fix" to the servos. Then there is the dealer fees for bleeding the system and God forbid you need to replace any of the parts associated with the "Wonder System". Go hot into a bend and squeeze the lever only to find it back to the bar with NO stopping power only to slowly build residual breaking. It will give you a different kind of "Presence" and the Status assoicated with changing your drawers if you stop without crashing. There are quite a few of us Beemer guys who have moved to other bikes or refuse to ride the servo models. Check some of the other sites and read the posts.
Just thought I'd add my tuppenceworth, I chased a GS 1150 a few weeks back with my Tiger, we were following a local enduro event and had a chase between stages. I could not keep up with the GS out of corners or away from junctions. Every time the Beemer opened up I could see the gap opening. I think rather than twist and go power delivery of the twin the Tiger needs to be worked. I still feel my Varadero was quicker, I could keep up with the Beemer on it, but of course, a twin. Relatively new to the Tiger I'm not used to it yet.
Brake horsepower is one thing, it's power, but comes in at higher revs, torque is more usable and across the rev range.
A Tiger in the right hands would probably be on a par if not quicker getting there, and as I proved is faster top end. I'm not a fan of the Beemer, I just can't get used to the look of the thing. It's not for me.
The Tiger's more nimble, faster, handles better and IMO looks better.
Quote from: "JRO"You can also impress small neighborhood children with your BMW Venting Machine Suit riding gear, Garmin GPS/FRS/GMRS radio/radar/laser/heatseekingmissle detector, Blaupunkt MP3 player, Shoei TC-5 helmet, Italian riding boots, (wow - were you in Star Wars?)....
Here is a BMW Rider for you. He switch to an ST 1300 and bolted on all the fish finder crap that he had on his Beemer. It looks like a great deal of distractions to me.
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i114/PatricktheScot/P0003067w.jpg)
Quote from Bob Hibler: Long ago, it was "How do I ride?; now we're slanting towards "How do I look?"
- July 2006 Road Bike Magazine (page 98 )
I get really frustrated these days. Used to be, if you had a Honda 160, you could tour on it. I knew folks who did. My first new bike was an adventure bike - a '69 Suzuki TC120 Cat. (Hmmmm. Full circle? - You decide.) Riding a motorcycle was really about the ride, then. Not about the bike, or the persona, or the leather 'n chrome, or the db level. (Well, for some, it was about the db level. :roll: )
When I got the Tiger, an HD owner (as opposed to HD rider) said I'd be sorry, 'cause it "won't be worth nothin' when you go to trade", as if, when I'm deciding which bike I want, I'm also deciding how soon I'll want to get shed of it. Funny thing - his bike's been torn down as much as it's been together (torn up?), adding chromie do-dad's, speed (sic) items, etc. He's just recently gotten it back on the road after the engine was reassembled. It needed a thousand something dollar 'diamond cut' (real bad). So he has it out last weekend and hears a clatter or something from his engine. He decides to take it to the local HD palace to (pause) TRADE THE THING (!) and they offer him, like, 12 grand on a new bike. His is an '04, something over 18 G's new, with some 10 more added for good measure. (I'm laughing - inside - he's sort of my boss.)
This stuff goes on all the time. The black-leather clad, and the Rolex banded, both know it does, but they still follow their lemming leaders right over the same cliff - again, and again.
I just don't get it - and they don't understand why not!
Aside: On the 17th, we'll be doing a 'corrections ride' from mid-central-southern Illinois, to Sikeston, MO. Except for three or four Gold Wings, I expect to be the only standard. The other thirty, or so, will be on cruisers. I know why. It's because they're cool. :roll: Sort of makes me wish I still had my 650 Burgman. :)
OK guys-you have had your fun with the GS why no mention of my other bike the VSTROM.
LetÌs hear you slate it as well- until you come up against one on any road surface with a decent rider on board both bikes. The DL is simply better, full stop!!!
I do admit that there is one design flaw that I cannot live with is the wind buffeting at helmet level (I am 6'2"), which is almost impossible to get rid of. This makes those long haul tar rides at 180+ KPH very unpleasnt.
All the bikes in this category are good just some are slightly better than others. The most suitable engine configuration is a VTWIM whether 60, 70 or 90 degree. I think 70 is the way to go. The triple has come a long way but still think the VTwin power delivery and design is most suited to this type of bike.
Having discussions with owners of all makes most agree that the ÏdreamÓ bike would be a 1000 cc Africa Twin with 100+ Hp, 110 Nm, 30 litre fuel tank, 170/180 Kg dry weight, ABS, No linked braking, BMW type accessories and an showa on/off road suspension to sell at the price of a Tiger or Varadero. A bike that will be in demand 20 years from now like the Yamaha Tenera, I do not think any of the current bikes carry this status. The Honda build quality is unmatched. Honda would take the market with this type of bike and I would be first on the list. In fact if any of the mainline manufactures made this bike it would be a hit. KTM owners might claim they already have this ÏperfectÓ bike, the KTM however has too many design issues for it to capture the top market share position.
A friend of mine owns a Triumph/Suzuki dealership and is very pro Triumph; he does avoid discussions regarding the comparison Vstrom and Tiger.
When I brought the Vstrom I rode the Aprilla Capanord, BMW 1150Gs/650D, Tiger, Varadero and Africa Twin, the VStrom was simply better in most areas. At the time I had a VTR and KLR. At the time it was the most unpopular choice (because of the look) with family, friends and even the dealer. I was the first to have one in the area, since they have sold a few. Most people comment without having ridden one, a shame.
To end off, most people, once the investment is made will find it difficult to be totally ÏhonestÓ with comment which is understandable. I do honestly believe that the best adventure bike is still to come. The Vstrom, Tiger, Honda Varadero, KTM and GS are good but still not brilliant. The KTM Rotax LC8 motor weighs 58 Kg I wonder what the GS 1200 motor weighs? A nice bike would be the GS with a 1000 Vtwin motor which would slim down the beast both in profile and weight.
I also abmit that with the GS you buy into the BMW lifestyle thing, as you would with a Car. Mercedes vs Toyota type thing.
As for the personal attacks I make no comment.
V-Strom?? Never owned one, never rode one, looks like a transformer to me. Past experience with Asian bikes lacked any type of character but good at what they were designed for. Industrial comes to mind. I have owned and ridded BMW's thus my comments and views on your post.
I've ridden both the 650 and the 1000 V-Stroms.
The 650 was a nice ride, but felt a little underpowered. (Understand that my ride of choice at that time was a 650 Burgman.) Some things: handling, minimal wind buffeting, were spot on, but the bike just didn't feel right for me. Comfort, as I recall, was a factor. Too much wrist pressure and all that. I will allow that it could have been easily remedied. Also, I only rode the bike 40 miles, or so.
The 1000 was a different bike entirely, it seemed. I rode it a little over 100 miles. It could have been the Corbin seat which made some of the difference, but that engine was outstanding. Handling wasn't quite as sharp as the DL650, but I really could have lived with the DL1000. The whole anime theme, though, really turns me off. Also, the Tiger came with the bags, and had integrated heated grips available. Putting hard bags on the DL1000 makes the thing extremely wide, not to mention costly. It'd take me some getting used to, I'm sure. If I'd gotten the big Strom set up the same as the Tiger, the cost difference would have been minimal. (The dealer made about $1K in concessions on the Tiger - probably would have on the Strom, too, since he sold both makes, but I preferred the Triumph.)
The DL1000's engine is sweet all the way through the range, and the sound is dramatic, but I absolutely love turbine-like feel of the 955 triple. To my mind, it's a wash.
Oh, and there's a couple of Strom's in town, but I have the only Tiger. :)
Quote from: "Patrick the Scot"Here is a BMW Rider for you. He switch to an ST 1300 and bolted on all the fish finder crap that he had on his Beemer. It looks like a great deal of distractions to me.
Wow.
Does he have the rocket launcher, too?
Quote from: "Bar"OK guys-you have had your fun with the GS why no mention of my other bike the VSTROM............
Bar - who cares? Why are you interested in Triumph forum members' opinions of BMW's and Suzukis? If you've chosen something other than a Tiger (and have never owned one), do you expect us to all agree with you?
Personally, I am leery of buying any motorcycle carrying more than one brand. Or didn't you know a V-Strom is a KLV-1000, also?
Are you sure yours is the Suzuki?
Then again, you obviously don't think much of the V-Strom. If it's better than a BMW, why are you trading it off for one? If I prefered a Piaggio to my Triumph, I'd certainly be riding one. I realize the 'status' and 'presence' of a Piaggio is superior, but what can I say?
Have you asked a Gold Wing forum what they think of your decision? You should ask some Yamaha and Harley people, too. Somebody should tell them they've all made a mistake; they're riding bikes without 'status', and their bikes aren't as good as something else which they shouldn't be riding, because IT doesn't have the 'presence' of yet another bike that should be chosen because of...
...Two bits says you don't have a bike, anyway.
Quote from: "JRO"...Two bits says you don't have a bike, anyway.
Ats right!
BAR, do you actually ride a two-wheeled anything? If so, where?
Have you ridden competitively, (i.e. enduros, hare-scrambles, desert, flat track, trials, super-moto, road course?)
What is the furthest trip you've done on a two-wheeler?
It was shameful to post a photo, with no legend.
I KNEW I had seen that before....
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i233/twelfwisp/bridge.jpg)
My experience of Honda has been nothing but excellent. Five Africa twins and a Varadero, I also own a Blade and an old CB750 but they're different gendre. If Honda produced a larger, more up to date Africa (XRV) I would consider going back to them. Why? Honda's build quality and reliabilty area a winner in my eyes.
Unfortunately this is where the Vstrom fails in my eyes, the engines, 650 too breathless for two up touring, the 1000 I cannot fault, brilliant motor. Reliability is also good on the Suzuki, the only issues with them are one, the build quality and depreciation. Try riding one here in the UK for a winter, they don't stand up well to salt. This is the main cause of depreciation. Kawasaki jumped on the "big triallie" bandwagon a few years later and decided to use the Vstrom rebadged as their product, in my opinion sums up Kawasaki.
I believe the Varadero, Vstrom, Capenord and the GS are getting too technical, with too much to go wrong, too heavy and don't really meet my personal requirements. All good bikes but just not for me.
I ride the Tiger now, 3000 miles in two months and I'm loving the bike, the build quality is on a par with Honda, the ride is comfortable and most importantly the Tiger fills my requirements. The depreciation on the Tiger is very good here in the UK, 04 models are still making around £4500 to £4800, just over £2000 less than the new prices but I'm not impressed with the dealer service charges here in the UK, I've been quoted over £400 GBP for a main service, I thought that kind of figure was only forDucati's? :cry: But overall, I like the Tiger and I'll stick with it for a few years. :lol: