Hello, guys!
I went recently to see a steamer for sale and I noticed a strange noise when engine stops, it sounds like something would still be rolling inside for a couple of seconds - it sounds pretty similar to the rolling of the engine starter.
I've never heard this sound on any of my bikes - but I've never had a Triumph - so I wonder if this is a problem, or something usual to Triumph bikes, or Steamers. This would be the main question.
I would also like some advice on assesing the bike. This bike has stood in a garage for two years or so, 35 000 miles on board, looks clean. Current owner didn't use it at all.
The bike seems to be needing cleaning the carbs - the engine dies out when accelerating, but with the choke pulled, it does accelerate - not exactly smmothly. It might also need new spark plugs, the owner told me that when he first started the bike, it ran only on two cylinders, until it got warm. Otherwise, the engine idles pretty smoothly at 1000 rpm. It has some funny clicks in the upper part, suggesting it needs valve adjustment. The engine cover seems to have been welded - probably a valve adjustment job gone bad when mounting the screws.
I couldn't try the bike on the road as the engine went out immediately when releasing the clutch.
I'm a bit afraid there may be more difficult issues to this bike than just carbs cleaning and spark plugs, and I'm also scared that when I open the engine to adjust the valves, I find it has already gone out of "adjustment room" due to neglect from the previous owners.
Opinions?
Rough running. ...probably a combination of things. Most likely problem is the ignition coils. Very common complaint on this bike. Old fuel, weak battery charge etc probably factors toom
Not sure about the sound after turning it off. Sprag problems are common and you dont want that.
Someone will be along with an opinion shortly.
Every steamer at 30k will have issues if not maintained well. Normally everything is fixable and is documented well here. After that they are normally pretty good.
Where are you based?
You got to factor in worst case into the price as it could be a real dog or a fantastic bargin after a few minor fixes. If price is too highor you not up for the work walk away. Certainly no sound like you describe on mine.
Quote from: nickcalne on October 14, 2012, 10:20:22 PM
Most likely problem is the ignition coils. (...)Not sure about the sound after turning it off. Sprag problems are common and you dont want that.
(...)Where are you based?
If it were for the ignition coils, it wouldn't matter whether the choke was on or off, the engine would die out anyway, ar at least that's what I hope and why I suspect more of a dirty carbs problem - but I am no big mechanic anyway. As regard the sound after turning it off... I know about the sprag clutch problems which are usual to steamers, but if it were a sprag clutch issue, shouldn't the sound be after
starting the engine, when the starter would still roll a couple of times? I mean, this sound is coming when the engine
stops, so, if the sparg clutch wouldn't let the starter go off and it would still be rotating with the engine, until the engine stops, the starter would be destroyed in a few minutes. Or not?
And, by the way, I'm based far far away, which is in Romania, very few steamers around, and even fewer mechanics who know about this brand.
The price is pretty good - 1000 Euros, but I would have to fix everything in service (ughh, costly), I know little about mechanics, and I know that steamers require "tech competent" owners, so it may not be the choice for me in this respect, but I really love this bike; I've always wanted one.
So, other steamers don't make that sound? I previously owned jap bikes, and the engine would always stop instantly, without any strange noise coming out of it for a second or two...
need to hear it , to diagnose it ..........................
how about a video?
Quote from: Mustang on October 15, 2012, 03:30:38 PM
need to hear it , to diagnose it ..........................
how about a video?
Not possible, unfortunately. The bike is very far from where I live, I wouldn't go there again, unless I had some serious buying intentions.
If you're not a mechanic, walk away from it. Sounds like an expensive education if you want to be a mechanic. Just my .02.
Good luck.
Against any reasonable thinking and wise advice from others, I decided to buy the bike, the was low enough to make accept the risks of expensive repairing. I will certainly have technical questions for more tech-competent and steamer-experienced riders, but now it's too cold, as I don't have a garage, it seems that the red lady will have to wait for spring to be broken down into pieces.
The papers say it's been produced in 2000, but it's probably a translation mistake, and it's been probably first registered for circulation in 2000. The VIN is a little confusing: SMTTG711NKX087854 would situate it in 1999, when they were no longer produced.
For now, I only want to check an information I found on some sites, contradiceted by other sites: is it true that the '98 steamers are not at the risk of sprag clutch problems, as the producer started using a better one in '98?
no they improved it but it is still possible to fail .
Quote from: Mustang on November 26, 2012, 03:35:11 AM
no they improved it but it is still possible to fail .
Hmmmm, I see... Not very comfotable to know that, I really had force that sprag clutch in order to get the bike going.
I seem unable to find a steamer service manual for download (legal or not).
Suggestions?
most places expect you to pay for them ..............................
like here http://www.repairloader.com/manual.php/5f060b6#.ULYjI2f4Kkc
I used to have one on my hard drive that I got free off the net
quality was a little bad but useable
then the hard drive crashed and I have no idea where I got it from
maybe someone will be along with a working link............
Thanks for the link, but it's for the injected girlies. I know the engine is quite similar, but it's not the same, and for a rookie to mechanics, like me, it may not be the choice.
In the meantime, I have found this:
http://www.tradebit.com/filedetail.php/148732610-triumph-tiger-900-workshop-repair-manual-download
I have nothing against paying for a legal download, as long as it's worth the money, this one is cheap, but I wouldn't bet on how reliable it is, the link says nothing about authors, competence or any details, doesn't sound very trustworthy. Is there such a thing like a Haynes manual, or other well-known editor? I found on the haynes site only something general about fixing Triumph triples, but I'd like something more specific.
I've just found a link with something interesting:
http://www.bikersoracle.com/triumphsprint/forum/showthread.php?t=5884
thats the one you want :eusa_clap
good find Thats also the one I lost in the hard drive crash .
I have the hard copy I bought years ago for a hundred bucks from triumph .
Some people like the haynes ........... I prefer the factory book .I think it is more thorough than the haynes manual . :thumbsup
Actually, all three of my Triumph Triples ('97 Trophy, '98 Tiger, and '03 S3) make a sound that could be described that way (like something 'rolling around'). Not necessarily every time I shut them off; but nearly every time.
The rough running is definitely carburetors being gummed up from sitting. The 'fix' might be as simple as using something like Seafoam (or other similar carb treatment you add to the fuel).
For what it's worth, I bought my Steamer with about 35k miles on it, and it runs like a Swiss watch.
Thanks. I noticed too that it doesn't make that sound always, and I also noticed that my car makes sometimes the same sound, so I no longer worry about it.
But I did something stupid in the meantime: eager to ride it , i took it for a few miles ride, hoping the additive I put in the gas will clean the carbs. As the engine tended to die out when accelerated,I left the choke on, and with it, engine didn't die out, it just a had a delay when accelerated. Four miles later, it started shaking, engine seemed to misfire and some white smoke was coming out in small shots from one of the exhausts. I stopped the engine, but could no longer start it, it just didn't make a sound when I pushed the starter. As the battery was very weak, I first thought it was the battery so I fed it electricity from tha car's battery, but still no sound. One hour later I was getting chills from the thought of pushing it for 4 miles. It cooled and when I pushed the starter, it started immediately. I figured something was not running fine beacuse it was hot, I rode it back home, and when I arrived, the same happened: shaking while riding, misfiring, than - silence. I could no longer start it, not even when it cooled down, when pushing the started, nothing happened.
I figured out I might have screwed up a coil, because the plugs get burned when running with the choke on, giving too much gas. When plugs get dirty, coils need to work harder to get the spark, they overheat, and eventually get burned. That would explain why the first time it stopped, it needed time to cool in order to startt again, and probably, the second time it stopped, the coil went out for good. But I'm far from being sure, and I-ll have to wait for spring to put my un-wise hands in that motor. Opinions?
Sounds like you figured it out yourself, hope you get a set of coils in your Christmas presents :new_xmas
What additive did you put in the tank, and how much? Most of the 'pour-in-the-tank' carb cleaners will produce white smoke if the 'mixture' is too heavy on the additive.
sounds like it could be the ignition pick up. they normally behave like that when their dyin
I'm with Rybes on this one. Starts when cold, stops when hot - classic crank sensor symptom.
Yes, but now it no longer starts even when cold. Hmmmm, I'm angry I have to wait for spring to start working on it.
Where is this sensor located? How can it be checked?
its under the small cover on the right hand side of the engine. no idea how youd check it, id guess some kind of resistance meter
I think you are barking up the wrong tree ......................
check your gas tank for water in it and a plugged corroded fuel tap ''''''''
do this 1ST then clean the carbs , pilot circuit especially .
then let us know how you are doing .................seriously
Quote from: Sin_Tiger on December 20, 2012, 02:48:34 AM
Sounds like you figured it out yourself, hope you get a set of coils in your Christmas presents :new_xmas
Thanks, but I don't want to write to Santa before I'm sure.
Quote from: FoothillRyder on December 20, 2012, 06:08:24 AM
What additive did you put in the tank, and how much? Most of the 'pour-in-the-tank' carb cleaners will produce white smoke if the 'mixture' is too heavy on the additive.
The white smoke was coming out of only one exhaust, alltogether with misfiring, so it can't be the additive.
Quote from: Mustang on December 20, 2012, 11:23:07 PM
I think you are barking up the wrong tree ......................
check your gas tank for water in it and a plugged corroded fuel tap ''''''''
How can the described problem be connected to the corroded fuel tap? Anyway, I 'll look into it, and carbs, spark plugs, then I''l start checking the ignition. It is not impossible that during the time the bike stood in a garage, water condensed in the tank, it might also be dirty due to old fuel.
Quote from: Mustang on December 20, 2012, 11:23:07 PM
then let us know how you are doing .................seriously
O course I will.
First I have to find a warm place to place it, as I have no garage. I can't wait for the spring. My mother lives on the ground floor in a block, I'm thinking :sign13 of placing the bike in one of the empty rooms, this way I would be there every day, like a good son :qgaraduate visiting his bike/mother.
Quote from: Solon on December 21, 2012, 06:30:19 AMQuote from: FoothillRyder on December 20, 2012, 06:08:24 AM
What additive did you put in the tank, and how much? Most of the 'pour-in-the-tank' carb cleaners will produce white smoke if the 'mixture' is too heavy on the additive.
The white smoke was coming out of only one exhaust, alltogether with misfiring, so it can't be the additive.
Quote from: Mustang on December 20, 2012, 11:23:07 PM
I think you are barking up the wrong tree ......................
check your gas tank for water in it and a plugged corroded fuel tap ''''''''
How can the described problem be connected to the corroded fuel tap? Anyway, I 'll look into it, and carbs, spark plugs, then I''l start checking the ignition. It is not impossible that during the time the bike stood in a garage, water condensed in the tank, it might also be dirty due to old fuel.
Oh it can be, most common fault on steamers
you have the symptoms of water in the fuel and a clogged petcock .start with fuel first .
unhook the fuel line at petcock
attach a hose for drain to the petcock
turn on the tap and drain tank completely into container
check for water
if water found in fuel
the drain line at the right rear of tank is corroded plugged which will let rainwater that is supposed to drain from around the cap find it's way into the tank.
run a pc of wire coat hanger up the hole and it should un block it for you
now remove the fuel tap and take it apart
it will be obvious if it is blocked .
clear it and reassemble
now remove the tank and pull the carbs
(now you get your steamer initiation)
theres a thread in the sticky thread that will guide you thru cleaning the carbs THOROUGHLY !
clean/ replace air filter while you have the carbs out (it's the only way you can do it )
put the bike back together and try it . you may be pleasantly surprised .
If it still is acting up be certain that you thoroughly cleaned the carbs ............then we will move onto electrical.
seriously the fuel system is the #1 problem to look at first
if you don't you can and will end up chasing your tail .
Thanks, man. You explain better than the Haynes manual :eusa_clap - not kiddin'!
As soon as I manage to place the bike in a warm and cozy place, I'll start with what you told me and update this topic.
I have a PDF of the Triumph manual that I am more than willing to email/Skype/whatever if needed. :XXcomputer
Thanks, I only have what I downloaded from the link I posted in the previous page - the original Triumph manual for triples which covers steamers too, but I might be interested 'cause there is also the Haynes and other versions which might bring something new. So if it's anything else than what I've already got, I'd be much obliged to you :notworthy if you sent it to me. I'll give you a PM with my email,
Quote from: Solon on November 28, 2012, 09:41:32 PM
I've just found a link with something interesting:
http://www.bikersoracle.com/triumphsprint/forum/showthread.php?t=5884
Thats a very handy link, as it has manuals for the Girlies and Roadies too, brilliant find :thumbsup
I finally managed start work on my bike. Nothing wrong with fuel tap, or spark plugs, or even ignition coils, just the coil connectors were kind of loose and no longer kept contact between wires and coils, that's where the misfiring came from. Cleaned the carbs and now the engine accelerates instantly and smoothly. Now I'm just left with changing oil, filters, maybe steering head bearings and a fork service, and possibly front brake discs. Nothing much, comparing to my initial fears, and then the bike will be good to go. Or will it?
After stripping the bike I found that the chassis looks pretty odd, like it's been beat up in a serious accident, and that really gives me something to worry about. That ugly welding and rippled main bar look repaired, not factory made. On the other hand, the bike certainly steers well, doesn't pull left or right, and the ripples look very symmetric.
And, if the bike had been through an accident serious enough to bend its huge main chassis, there should be other signs of the accident, and there aren't any.
I don't know what to think.
At first glance, I'm scratching my head here, a frontal impact would ripple the underside of the tube, not the top. I can't think what would do that.
Edit, unless it was bent under a frontal impact and what we re looking at is the heating and hammer work to knock it straight....
Hard landings after wheelies :hat10 possibly off road work. I would have a close look at the underside, crack check by dye penetrant if possible.
Have a look at the rear sub frame just forward of where the rear rack should mount, common failure.
That appears to be cracked ,split OEM welds from the gussets and ridden for quite a while like that which caused the frame to buckle /deform. It's actually a common failure for steamers that are subjected to Rough roads and hard use .
As for the frame geometry it's probably not at factory spec any more . Like Sin says check the sub frame on the rear for similar damage , they usually break there too from the same washboard rough road use and being ridden hard /overloaded.
Me myself I would find another frame from a breaker yard .
Quote from: Bixxer Bob on February 18, 2013, 11:10:54 PM
At first glance, I'm scratching my head here, a frontal impact would ripple the underside of the tube, not the top. I can't think what would do that.
Edit, unless it was bent under a frontal impact and what we re looking at is the heating and hammer work to knock it straight....
I think you scratched your head in the right direction, I checked underneath, and it is also rippled like a frontal impact bent the fork together with the front end downwards. There is no accident or wheelie or anything that could bend the chassis both downwards and upwards, so one of them is handmade in an attempt to straighten and diminish the damage. I looked at the fork closely. Unlike the rest of the bike which shows few sign of being used, the fork does look "old" and pretty worn out at those two inches where the oil seals rub most of the time. So I suppose the fork was changed with an older one from a breaker, and it was changed because of a frontal impact that destroyed it and bent the chassis downwards, only to be straightened up lateer at the cost of those ripples above.
The bike seems to handle well, but that chassis is certainly not trustworthy so I'll try to look for one in a better shape. Otherwise the bike seems in great condition and I still don't regret getting it. I guess that a 2000 first registered bike with 36 000 km (not miles!) on it is still a bargain at the 700 Euros I paid for it.
Gonna check for frames now...