Me and the other half have decided that we want to replace the Girly for something newer. Still not sure what though. Had a look at a Multistada today, and the new KTM looks to be good. Tiger Sport is also a possible.
Only thing is, last time I bought a new bike was in the eighties!
So, if I walk into a dealers and want to do a deal on a new bike, can I expect to get anything off?
IME the best way to get a good deal is to sell your Tiger privately first then go in with a handful of cash. You'll never (well hardly ever) do well with a part/ex (although my experience with new bikes is even less than yours!)
Although having said that, I know that some dealers make a lot on their finance deals so that may be worth a few bargaining points.
I dunno how it is in Ol' Blighty, but here in the colonies, where I worked new auto sales for awhile, every deal is different. Some folks get a LOT off, some pay extra. Most in between.
It all depends on how you are at negotiating. Being willing to finance can cut a bit off the price due to kickback from the bankers (shocked, you are?). If you can afford cash, finance, then pay it off. Works better than trying to negotiate with cash.
Also, try at the end of the month. If there are sales figures that they need to meet, and haven't, you're sitting pretty.
Buying used can open up greater savings. Wanting a year-old new bike works, too (is how I got mine, an '06 bought in March '07).
Good luck, and remember the BEST negotiating tool is walking out. SERIOUSLY!! (but be willing to walk back in, THAT'S when the magic happens)
Cosmo
Yes Ian the Tiger will go private sale. I don't think many main dealers these days would bother giving very much for anything the age of our Tigers. It would be a cheap trade sale bargain that they could chuck on a huge profit and turn round quickly.
Yes Cosmo, thats the same here. I was in retail years ago, and even then dealers got a commission when finance was arranged. Even on 0% deals.
I don't know if your idea about finance, then pay off, would work. I seem to remember that some finance companies would still charge interest even if the balance was paid off quicker.
The short answer to you question is NO!!,things have changed since the eighties,profit margins on new bikes are a joke they are that bad and to make things worse the KTM and the Tiger are new models you'll be going some to get in the queue never mind chipping them on the price,depending on where you go you might be able to chip a dealer on a Multi I can think of couple that don't have a problem devalueing their bikes!!! because thats what they are doing.
I'd spend more time concentrating on who do you choose to look after the bike,you've not a snowballs chance in hell of self service with the latest stuff,most KTM dealers are small setups as is KTM,with Ducati when it comes to service the best dealer in the country is JHP but don't rock up looking for a cheap Multi cuz you won't get it.
Frankly price and who's going to service them is a minor detail,what you are going to buy and what spec is the problem,anything with electric suspension is a mighty black hole,check up on the Multistrada forums for 'Two up set up',or check suspension threads blimey it's a drama for the electric boys.
You can order a KTM without all the bells and whistles for about £700 less,the Tiger is interesting because on paper it's not much quicker than a 955 on top end but hopefully more grunt,and the down side of all of e'm they've all got much smaller tanks!!!,as you can see with my homework I've been trying to make some sort of effort of bailing out of my 955 for the best part of 18 months,things are more complicated as I've attempted to keep mine up with 21st century with wheels/brakes/suspension,and it's a world away from a stock 955.
I've yet to ride a 1050 sport,but Multistrada wise the smart money is on a bog stocker(still has the same motor) and then put an Ohlin on the back.
Best tip for buying abike from a dealer,go in and mean what you say,don't go in all 'Wishy Washy' I'll go home and think about!!!,be prepared to put you money where your mouth is,having recently had the same experience buying a car it's great fun when they realise your not there to muck about,because I've found that they don't either then.
But don't P/X thats a rich mans past time,normally practised by the complete opposite.
What I forgot, be sure on what ever you buy is the right decision becuase the only way out is a big bucks loss,I've been looking at secondhand Multi's for over a year and I've only seen one sold privately because who the hell is going to pay 10 grand for secondhand bike!!!,certainley an expensive one way ticket.
There was a comment in one of the mags I read in the last week or so, journos bemoaning the fact that many of the main dealers couldn't give them demo bikes as they were all going out the does so fast. Might be worth hanging on for a bit if you can.
Good advice from Chris based on his own thorough research. I have a mate whose Multi has just gone up for sale at Ducati Coventry. Knowing him it will have been well looked after and I know for a fact it was the very first one to be sold in this country. Now I've posted, you'll have to beat Chris to it though! :hat10
I am struggling to find anything about the suspension problems you mention Chris. I'm looking on multistrada.net and ducati.ms. I am seeing the usual niggles, the kind of things we get here and any bike forum come to that.
Your right about dealers though, I need to make sure I find a good un. I have heard about Coventry Ducati, so may take a scoot over sometime. I have not visited a KTM dealer yet, but not hearing good things at the moment about them. Why do I get the impression that they might sell combine harvesters as well!
Interesting bit on the G-Tec website about the Stretta and Evo engines not having any timing marks.
Quote".......and the belt tension values are measured in Hz. It should be noted therefore that these engines should only have the belts fitted, timed, and tensioned with the appropriate tools and meters."
So thats DIY out the window.
Sin, last weeks MCN had a road test on a bunch of adventure bikes. One was the new 1200 Caponord. They had problems with it not being fully run in. Might be because Aprillia want to get them sold rather than tested?
Bob, I will let Chris beat me to it, he's welcome. I am looking towards the end of the summer and am even prepared to leave it until winter. Out of season may see some better deals. And I am still waiting on an R/R to arrive for the Girly so I can get that sorted, do a valve check and think about selling it.
Well I'm ahead of the game because I've been through this electric suspension lark before I bought my K1200r Sport,BM had been very clever with their marketing as they realised your average biker doesn't know a shock spring from a bed spring!! and give e'm a button to press to change the suspension and they'll love it,now regardless of the pro's con's of it being any good,by the time the owner has 10/20,000 miles on the bike and the suspension is starting to wear there's no way of uprgrading or stiffing it up, and when they go wrong or leak their £1800 a pop thats just for the rear,hence why I bought a K without,but in fairness it's only been the last 6 months(bikes been out since 05) that it may!!! be possible to get one fixed.
Re the Multi suspension,blimey your not looking very hard,the first Multi came out with either stock Sachs or electric Ohlins,sport mode on a Multi is what dreams are made of,the trouble being if your a big guy or ride two up it's ain't very sport and there's umpteen threads about what folk got up to to try and sort it/stiffen it up,from various shimming to Ohlins offering another spring and of course it's still new tech so there's a lot of fumbling in the dark.
Ducati have now dumped Ohlins and gone solus Sachs and have the new active 'SkyHook' system,without doubt the Multi and the new KTM have moved the game on HP wise,and as i said in the other post I reckon it's just as important as who's going to look after the bike as to which one your going to buy.
The prices on Multi's reminds me of the 4x4 jeep market in eighties when prices stayed high,but in the end their were so many of e'm there was alog jam and prices dropped,certainly Duc owners are notorious for buying new storing and doing no miles,It's a waiting game.
Thats the result of all the drama I'll look for another post.
http://www.ducati.ms/forums/216-2010-current-2nd-generation-watercooled/152017-ohlins-upgrade.html
This is just a sample but their manyl like this including guys who have come up with various solutions.
http://www.ducati.ms/forums/216-2010-current-2nd-generation-watercooled/102677-mts-1200-shock-spring.html
There are also some great threads on having a stock Multi suspension done as well if look.
With regards to a discount be bloody cheeky and be prepared to walk away if you had to. My kids hate shopping with me because of my bartering I got discounts on Ipods for the kids at HMV.
cheers Spud :thumbsup
Find the salesman that looks like he's struggling, the loser in the pack... He'll give you the best discount.
How do I know? I had lunch with the chairman of one of the largest vehicle dealership chains a few weeks ago and he explained a lot about how sales works and how they motivate/Discipline sales staff. It is brutal!
The award for Man who listened to Martin Lewis the most goes to........
Quote from: Spud on April 30, 2013, 07:46:00 PM
With regards to a discount be bloody cheeky and be prepared to walk away if you had to. My kids hate shopping with me because of my bartering I got discounts on Ipods for the kids at HMV.
cheers Spud :thumbsup
And this year we have a new category, the psychological warfare award.
Quote from: nickcalne on April 30, 2013, 10:04:40 PM
Find the salesman that looks like he's struggling, the loser in the pack... He'll give you the best discount.
How do I know? I had lunch with the chairman of one of the largest vehicle dealership chains a few weeks ago and he explained a lot about how sales works and how they motivate/Discipline sales staff. It is brutal!
Quote from: nickcalne on April 30, 2013, 10:04:40 PM
Find the salesman that looks like he's struggling, the loser in the pack... He'll give you the best discount.
How do I know? I had lunch with the chairman of one of the largest vehicle dealership chains a few weeks ago and he explained a lot about how sales works and how they motivate/Discipline sales staff. It is brutal!
At the risk of pointing out the obvious thats cars!!!,George White cured any such notions in the bike trade,you want to haggle?? buy second hand there'll be a bigger profit margin and wriggle room which a new bike doesn't have.
Traders(bike) have found times might be hard,but giving stuff away isn't the way to survive.
Thanks for the links Chris, but when I looked at the posts, they date back to pre-2013/Skyhook models.
We may be at odds on this, but I'm not seeing big problem type threads we seem to get. I would have thought that if this was a big issue it would have been a "sticky".
And anyway, I'm not a big fat American, and neither is my wife (she told me to say!)
Quote from: robxxxx on May 01, 2013, 02:41:54 AM
And anyway, I'm not a big fat American, and neither is my wife (she told me to say!)
We're not all big fat Americans...
I'm 183cm and just under 14 stone.
No preload when its just me...
Cosmo
Quote from: robxxxx on April 30, 2013, 10:56:34 PM
The award for Man who listened to Martin Lewis the most goes to........
Quote from: Spud on April 30, 2013, 07:46:00 PM
With regards to a discount be bloody cheeky and be prepared to walk away if you had to. My kids hate shopping with me because of my bartering I got discounts on Ipods for the kids at HMV.
cheers Spud :thumbsup
And this year we have a new category, the psychological warfare award.
Quote from: nickcalne on April 30, 2013, 10:04:40 PM
Find the salesman that looks like he's struggling, the loser in the pack... He'll give you the best discount.
How do I know? I had lunch with the chairman of one of the largest vehicle dealership chains a few weeks ago and he explained a lot about how sales works and how they motivate/Discipline sales staff. It is brutal!
who is Martin Lewis ? There would be wriggle room on accessories and don't forget that dealers get kick backs for volume of sales from the makers. The last car I bought the garage made £125 out of the car but made a lot more out of the servicing etc.
DONT ASK DONT GET........
Cheers Spud :thumbsup
Quote from: cosmo on May 01, 2013, 03:43:15 AM
Quote from: robxxxx on May 01, 2013, 02:41:54 AM
And anyway, I'm not a big fat American, and neither is my wife (she told me to say!)
We're not all big fat Americans...
I'm 183cm and just under 14 stone.
No preload when its just me...
Cosmo
Get you big boy :hat10
I'm going out on a limb here, I suspect there might well be a glut of Roadies as trade in's now the Sport is out. Opportunity for you perhaps, one possible fly in that ointment is your other half might not be so keen to have her headin the breeze, ask me how I know.
Quote from: robxxxx on May 01, 2013, 02:41:54 AM
Thanks for the links Chris, but when I looked at the posts, they date back to pre-2013/Skyhook models.
We may be at odds on this, but I'm not seeing big problem type threads we seem to get. I would have thought that if this was a big issue it would have been a "sticky".
And anyway, I'm not a big fat American, and neither is my wife (she told me to say!)
I know little about the Skyhook and at the risk of showing my age I'm wary of such things long term mainly because I do keep my bikes a long time,so you will have make your own mind up,certainley for me If I buy a Multi it will be a stocker and I'll have the forks revalved and put an Ohlins on rear and keep life uncomplicated and cheap,because when this stuff is new and under warranty fine,but when that runs out and your on your own it's a different story,and hence why the likes of BMW do an extended warranty and the majority including me have it.
And out of interest why do folk keep relating to cars!!,I've 4 bikes one bought privately,another new from a dealer,another secondhand from a dealer and the last bought on ebay,all totally different experiences,in the last 4 weeks I/we have purchased a 5 month old Golf GTD a completely different synario all together,all they were interested in was sales numbers with multiple salesmen,you just don't get that whith bike dealers,you did with the likes of George White as I said in the other post but thats all long gone,get going into a bike dealer with the same mentality your going to be leaving as one unhappy camper.
This weeks MCN has a booklet inside with write ups on all the big traillies for this year,quite how you cross reference between what they think,what you think, and what works out financially is the $60,000 dollar question.
Going off subject a bit, I asked the advice of a local KTM rider about a few green lanes for this year's UK meet. His answer? "Don't be effing daft. I took a group of experienced KTM riders out and it was a mud-spattered effing disaster"
Their idea of disaster might just be our idea of fun :hat10
Rob
Did you ever get to ride a Multi,we had 4 days with one and sadly not for us but I'd be happy to share notes.
Yes Chris, I popped over to Coventry Ducati a few weeks ago and me and the wife took a spin.
Bear in mind that my Tiger is still the standard suspension, so not up to the spec of yours. And my second bike is a Pegaso 650 with lots of travel on both ends!
The duke was intimidating for the first few miles, left it in Urban mode to keep the power down round Coventry. At first I thought that there was something wrong going round some roundabouts, but then realised that it was just me being used to slightly saggy suspension. Charged down the M6 in touring mode, plenty of grunt there. Had to give the other half a heads up when I started to overtake, I think I might have lost her off the back if I had'nt. Off the motorway and onto some A-roads. Really felt at home on these, and did handle beautifully.
Wife did have some concerns about the seat height. And once you add the panniers might make it more difficult for her to mount. I did think that the screen could do with being a bit wider and taller. But not useless like the standard Tiger screen, may opt for the touring screen they do. Did e-mail Iain Palmer, but his screen is only good for the pre-2013 models. Shame.
As for the suspension, it was good, but I wasn't blown away by it. Maybe its because it was doing the job so well? It would certainly be good enough for me Chris. I'm getting to the point in life where I can't be arsed to start faffing around with stuff like that. And the idea of just dialing in a setting does appeal.
So how did you get on?
Well I managed to aquire one for 4 days!!,which gave us heaps of time to ride it one up/two and clamber all over it the Sky Hook model,I rode it on my own in sport mode,suspension was like concrete and that was in comparison with mine!!,the big difference is the speed there's no other way apart from describing it as just very fast.
Tried it two up,in short it just didn't work,we both ignored the suspension,having ridden a BM with ESA and an earlier electric Ohlins and then this Skyhook I didn't like any of e'm,it might be somebodies idle but not mine or my other half,we found we were too close together the screen in the low position all but took my head off and at the high setting I was just looking over the top,not my thing I remember seeing one of those Palmer screen thingies on here,I'm not buying a bike to hide behind a huge piece of plastic.
We had two good runs on it and the bottom line,we use a bike for holidays and the while we could have put up with it at a push,things like a small tank both range wise and getting a decent size tank bag(don't do panniers) it was just going to be a struggle,having had a couple of days riding the Multi went back to the Tiger,we had last Monday off and rode out to the Welsh coast(we do little bike riding in the UK) and while the old 955 felt sluggish by comparison, from A to B over a distance with the mods we have on it a better(much) option,the Multi was just too hyper for a distance bike.
Have been out today on a 1050 Sport,now I didn't hold out much hope of liking it,just as big and bulky as the 955(the Multi is like a bicycle by comparison),what I really liked it steered well,I was expecting a wheel barrow but it steered as quick as my 955,motor was peppy,nowhere near as quick as Multi and not light years quicker than my 955 but was very responsive and I liked it.
Suspension for a stock bike was OK'ish but if we bought one would soon get the rear shock dumped the front foks you can ajust to taste,what I didn't like was the seat,I'm a Rizla paper under 6ft and even after a short time on a warm day my legs felt cramped and at this point in time there's no option for ajustment,and the aerodynamics would need some twiddling,we are two of the lucky one's our 955 with a stock screen we can/have ridden at 3 figures for hours on end with no problem.
But I have to say I view the 1050 as an option,if the old 955 throws a rod I'd buy a Sport and sort the niggles out,getting back on the 955 and riding home it felt way taller,motor revs a lot lower and slower,but if we run into a Sport on the road I don't see one running away from us with any great speed and over a long day we could run an Multi down easypeezy high speed on the Multi over a distance was hard work, but as the guy at the shop said we've been fine tuning the old tank for 10 years!!!.
The down side on the Sport is fuel range,now I/we have ridden with two 1050's at our speed and both ran short on fuel and had to stop and we didn't even have the fuel light on,but I see little option but to put up with it.
But when the Sport starts coming on the secondhand market,I'd certainly view it as a viable option with some tweeking.
Dare I day it again :icon_wink: you might want to consider a used standard 1050. If you are going to sort the suspension anyway, a few minor engine tweaks and the only things you'd be missing would be the better lights (can be cured), the remote dash push buttons (can be done easily) and the single side swing arm (nice but does it really make that much difference?) Might be worth a black to back comparison. Yes the pillion seat is a boy of a perch but your missus is more unused to it and there's alternatives, you'd probably prefer lower pegs but our leader can sort that.
Run the numbers and see out it first make sense :icon_scratch:
Well the only reason we could even look at the new Sport as opposed to the 1050 is Triumph have flattened the seat out not loads but enough make it practical for my other half to get on.
And while I was waffling completely forgot the major hoo haa with the Multi and that was the instant pickup off the throttle,it had to be sport mode because anything less was no better than what we have,but the slightest whiff of throttle would fire my other half off the back,now there are lots of things she ain't but a great pillion she is,there's non of this hanging on to me or even a grab rail,but in the end as soon as she realised I was going open it up she'd have to make a grab for me to hang on,just what you want on a long day on the road!!!.
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h185/wing2541/003_zps8593e418.jpg) (http://s64.photobucket.com/user/wing2541/media/003_zps8593e418.jpg.html)
That's the reason my other half is not so keen on the 1050. I did look at a Sargent seat but I don't have long legs like you. If you're going to make the meet up you're welcome to try mine.
I have also considered the Tiger Sport, and the Explorer, and the KTM, and the Caponord.........you get the picture. There's possibly a bit too much choice around at the moment. But I still fancy going back to a V-Twin.
I still have an issue with the Multi being too wide at the handlebars for access to the rear of my house, if I cant resolve that I will be testing the KTM and the Tiger Sport.
Quote from: Sin_Tiger on June 09, 2013, 12:38:30 PM
That's the reason my other half is not so keen on the 1050. I did look at a Sargent seat but I don't have long legs like you. If you're going to make the meet up you're welcome to try mine.
Thanks for the offer but if you remember I had a 1050 in my garage from last October till 6 weeks ago that I ended up storing for a friend.
Quote from: robxxxx on June 09, 2013, 05:07:46 PM
I have also considered the Tiger Sport, and the Explorer, and the KTM, and the Caponord.........you get the picture. There's possibly a bit too much choice around at the moment. But I still fancy going back to a V-Twin.
I still have an issue with the Multi being too wide at the handlebars for access to the rear of my house, if I cant resolve that I will be testing the KTM and the Tiger Sport.
Well that's where we differ it'll be a cold day hell I ever go back to anything with a 19" front wheel.
Quote from: Chris Canning on June 09, 2013, 05:36:06 PM
Quote from: Sin_Tiger on June 09, 2013, 12:38:30 PM
That's the reason my other half is not so keen on the 1050. I did look at a Sargent seat but I don't have long legs like you. If you're going to make the meet up you're welcome to try mine.
Thanks for the offer but if you remember I had a 1050 in my garage from last October till 6 weeks ago that I ended up storing for a friend.
No I didn't know that but I'm assuming you took full advantage of the situation :icon_wink: