Looking for some help with the bike... ran 95% fine since I had it... I store it in a heated garage all winter.... but forgot to start it regularly..
this season it has run like it was on 2 cylinders... tried seafoam.... like 3 cans haha.. finally pulled the carbs out today, stripped them down as far as I felt like.. blew out as many passages as I could see... ran a drill through the main jets by hand.... cleaned all the airboxes up, sealed the joints on the right side with silicone...
put it back together and the choke is really hard but can work ???????? nothing seems to be restricting it...
the throttle sounds a lot more responsive than it did before tear down, but when I ride it... rides like sh*t... I mean it runs... but not as much oooomph as it should have... the torque doesnt even kick in in first gear.... used to spin the rear wheels (I live on gravel roads) in the first couple of gears once it hit over 4000rpm...
It always since I got it had that dead spot under full throttle until it hot around 5K then opened up... but was fine if you rolled/feathered the throttle....
now it just sounds wrong... almost sounds like its not running right on cylinders...???? like there is an exhaust leak but I can hear it once down checking at the outlets, but the main noise sounds like its near the bottom rear of the engine... I am so stumped now...
loved this bike till now.....
mikunis ?
it's your pilot jets and pilot circuit .
did you take the pilot jets out and verify they are not clogged by at least looking thru the tiny little hole ?
your carbs are not clean yet ...guaranteed :hat10.
pretty sure I did... I blew thru them, then held them up to the light....
I was soooo excited as it sounded more responsive only to run like poooooop
I studied all your posts mustang regarding these carbs... hence the seafoam route...
guess I may have to take them off again....
mind you I am researching different bikes... might be an excuse to move on haha
So can you spot the issue with this picture???
(//)
yep... dont remember noticing that middle spring/washer/o-ring not there when I first went thru it.. oh well.. gotta place another order and pay more for the shipping then the parts from bike bandit... hohum
seeing as I work in a machine shop (out of school a yr ago for cnc) I figured why not see what we had at work, so I took the jets in and ran them in the ultrasonic cleaner for a few hours, made my own pilot jet spring out of an almost exact match piece they had at work, made my own washer for the pilot jet and dug up an o-ring as well... saved me about $40 woo hoo
she fired up... but I am replacing the clock with a blanking pc that will hold a power supply... planning on designing and machining something at work tomorrow to fill the clock hole (clock stopped working)...
so hopefully the rain will clear up on the weekend and I will button it all back up and see if it actually runs...
I turned the pilot jets back 2 turns... by two turns I mean the same side of the screwdriver does a full 360* turn (is this correct mustang?)
depending on your pilot jets you may find 1 1/2 works better on the mikunis
but yeah 1 1/2 to 2 turns is good starting place
So if I have run a acetylene torch cleaner through EVERY orifice (on the bike :) ) I could see, ultrasonicly cleaned all the jets... re-installed and it seems like it just doesnt have oooomph.. admittedly I just rode up and back along the dirt road about 1/4 mile... tomorrow if it is dry I may take it for a good ride and see..... but would having the jets out 2 turns do this??
no
well I am lost now... :BangHead :BangHead :BangHead :BangHead :BangHead :BangHead
been updating in the other thread (DAR)
SYMPTOMS:
Starts real easy.. idles fine though there is a noise which sounds like metal rattling or misfire? (was louder not as loud now)
Revs fine in Neutral (seems to be smooth)
First gear seems ok till it hits around 3500 rpm then the power just flattens... engine revs up but no big torque kick around 5K and no real acceleration....
2nd Gear the same as first..
never tried higher gears as I turned around and parked it...
But I am lost now...
so far I have had the carbs apart twice...
cleaned anything with a hole thru it... literally... (Mustang the circle on the pics are the jets I cleaned out including the ones in the front (where it meets the airbox) of the carb that unscrew...
I used an oxy torch cleaner thru passageways (ie like a file but wire shaped),
carb spray cleaner,
ultrasonic cleaner at work on jets etc,
high pressure air thru it all,
ran drill bits thru jets by hand,
cleaned fuel filter screen between 1 & 2 carbs....
the tank was emptied before carb tear down as I ran 2 cans of seafoam thru with almost an empty tank...
fuel line from petcock to carbs has been replaced
spark plugs replaced (never did #2 yet) and I am sure that will end up being the bad one...
I have switched coil packs around trying to determine if a coil is bad (no definitive conclusion)
I did have one of the tops of the carbs off whee the diaphragm is... it popped out of the grooves... I think I got it back in right.. the needle and slide thing seem to have some pressure when moving it up and down?!?!?! but it was a little oversized where it sits in the groove.... had to finagle it to get it sitting in right... would this cause the misfire or unpowered feeling??
The only thing that was wrong with this bike when I stored it for winter is a small flat spot between 3-4K and only under hard acceleration, if you rolled the gas on it just pulled all the way until red... and it sits in a heated workshop all winter... longest it sat between starts is when I went back to Australia for 5 weeks so maybe 2months between starts... never bothered it the previous year!!
now it doesnt seem to have the torque and pull to it after 3500rpm... just flat lines... (it seems)
could the float o-rings cause this?? they all seemed in great shape... so I never replaced them..
I really dont know where else to look.... I am not in a rush to tear apart the carbs again but after this I know if I need to it takes me about 30mins to get them all out and on the bench...
I truly am stuck... and right now I would rather just trade it in and get a touring BMW with fuel injection.... but on teh other hand I really enjoy riding this bike a lot... went form a TL1000R to this and it was like a stool to a lazy boy in terms of comfort and enjoyment to ride...
I just want to ride...
next step may be to drop it off somewhere.. but am trying to avoid spending $1000 on a $2000 bike at a shop!!!!
now that you have finally given a decent description of problem........ sounds like fuel starvation
remove petcock from tank
make sure there is no corrosion blocking the flow in the tap
check main and reserve
remove both nylon filters
reassemble with out the filters
remove the filter thats in the pipe inlet in the carbs end
install a inline filter in the gas line
if still dead above 3500 rpm
is the right hand snorkel capped ? it needs to be !
try going for ride with gas cap open your vent may be clogged
also if you have water in tank can do this but you will have solved that by removing petcock.
Hi guys,I took your advice Mustang,and fitted 42.5 pilots on a spare set of carbs I had(with 105 mains). My bike has a K&N filter. I fitted the snorkels off my Super 3,without the blanking cap. My bike runs superbly! Pulls like a train and mpg has improved. Could o rings be his prob?
Quote from: Mustang on June 01, 2013, 10:59:41 PM
now that you have finally given a decent description of problem........ sounds like fuel starvation
remove petcock from tank I remember reading something about reserve working for someone else so when I turned it to reserve it seems to sound quieter but then it still ran funny)
make sure there is no corrosion blocking the flow in the tap will do although it seems to piss out pretty good with no hose attached
check main and reserve will do again
remove both nylon filters both? where are they?
reassemble with out the filters
remove the filter thats in the pipe inlet in the carbs end guessing I may have to removes carbs to access this again?
install a inline filter in the gas line will buy one tomorrow
if still dead above 3500 rpm
is the right hand snorkel capped ? it needs to be !YES
try going for ride with gas cap open your vent may be clogged attempted - no change
also if you have water in tank can do this but you will have solved that by removing petcock. I had drained the tank totally before cleaning carbs - ran straight seafoam then added some gas so I would so no water
also there is a metallic sound when releasing the clutch... like the typical steamer rattle only LOUD.. any ideas? sprag clutch? clutch itself? DAR?
The two nylon filters are fitted to the main and reserve pipes on the actual fuel tap, so remove tap, then remove both nylon filters.
Like here.....................
http://www.tigertriple.com/forum/index.php/topic,10288.msg75811.html#msg75811
Quote from: DWNUNDR on June 01, 2013, 11:45:34 PM
remove the filter thats in the pipe inlet in the carbs end guessing I may have to removes carbs to access this again?
install a inline filter in the gas line will buy one tomorrow
The filter is in pipe that goes from the petcock to the carbs, at the end towards the carbs. I replaced it too with an inline filter, it's easier to spot and change when dirty.
Mine was also rough running - got fixed after I realized the wire connection to one of the coils was interrupting from time to to time, due to the vibrations. So the coil was functional, but had its bad moments. I simply flattened the connector to hold better to the coil.
My tiger also had problems accelerating over 4000 rpm, the air box was cracked, fixed after changing it. Make sure the rubber gaiters between carbs and engine are not cracked or smth, it might suck extra air through that.
Quote from: Solon on June 02, 2013, 06:02:19 AM
Quote from: DWNUNDR on June 01, 2013, 11:45:34 PM
remove the filter thats in the pipe inlet in the carbs end guessing I may have to removes carbs to access this again?
install a inline filter in the gas line will buy one tomorrow
The filter is in pipe that goes from the petcock to the carbs, at the end towards the carbs.(yeah I knew about that one as I cleaned it out when I pulled the carbs apart last time... too busy this weekend with other chores so put the bike aside for a bit to cool down and re-energize my enthusiasm haha) I replaced it too with an inline filter, it's easier to spot and change when dirty.
Mine was also rough running - got fixed after I realized the wire connection to one of the coils was interrupting from time to to time, due to the vibrations. So the coil was functional, but had its bad moments. I simply flattened the connector to hold better to the coil.
My tiger also had problems accelerating over 4000 rpm, the air box was cracked, fixed after changing it. Make sure the rubber gaiters between carbs and engine are not cracked or smth, it might suck extra air through that.
well I pulled the tank after dinner, took a guess at which carb I opened teh diaphragm on and voila.. guessed right... bike seems to have it balls back but there is still a LOUD rattle and I am pretty convinced it is to do with the starter... or at least thats where it rattles the most.. engine and area around it doesnt vibrate thru it as strong, but touch the starter and it feels like someone is tapping it....
with all the starting issues I had to charge the battery a lot and jumping it while charging etc I hope I havent damaged that DAR thing or whatever happens with low batteries and starting them....
next problem to dig thru now
that airbox rubber aint sealed worth a shit to the carb throat either . :bug_eye
Run it like that long enough and you will need a valve job and rings after you ingest enough dust .
you do realize that You are creating your own problems . :thumbsup
the starter will only make noise when you are starting it .if the sprag clutch is damaged .
the starter has nothing to do with DAR ( dreaded alternator rattle)
I will check it again... never took enough notice I guess...
and isnt this how we learn??? screw things up... at least my posts havent been a common theme...
I took it to the dealer and they F****** it up.... blah blah blah Im man enough to say never working on this bike before doing all this I know I was bound to mess some things up... ;)
I am going to tighten everything again.. make sure its all seated right... then I guess we will find out if thats whats causing the noise... but I am doubtful...
Mustang you did see the video I posted in the other thread I started?? thats the noise
MUSTANG:
I re-checked the rubbers... all around on all carbs... loosened them all, pushed the carbs forward then the airbox... barely anything moved... the rubbers seem to be lined up with the dowel, they are as far forward on the carb inlet as they can go.. the clamps are all tightened down as far as they can be...
So I guess I am not seeing what you are seeing... ie what is the issue you are spotting??? seriously.. I am scratching my head trying to see what you mean... I want to know oh wise one ;) (seriously) what have I screwed up there this time haha
I think you may have to invest in some new carb rubbers. Unless they are soft and pliable, you will struggle to get a decent seal. Worth giving the air box a good going over while you've got it apart, sounds like the bike has been molested in the past.
Quote from: DWNUNDR on June 03, 2013, 05:58:05 AM
So I guess I am not seeing what you are seeing... ie what is the issue you are spotting??? seriously.. I am scratching my head trying to see what you mean... I want to know oh wise one ;) (seriously) what have I screwed up there this time haha
Looking at the pic you posted, the airbox isn`t seated on the carb properly.
I guess I just am not getting it... the rubbers are all soft and pliable... they are against the airbox and on the carb as good as they can be... and they are tightened down!!!
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/2uoykcuf/carbs/diaphragm_zps8c430f72.jpg) (http://s231.photobucket.com/user/2uoykcuf/media/carbs/diaphragm_zps8c430f72.jpg.html)
Thanks Mustang.. your explanation now makes sense... I honestly never thought that was not on right... didnt think they were that precise but I will go over them tonight and redo them...
so from your words.... make the clip line up better (perpendicular to carb) and move that boot on the carb side back a little??? or it should line up with that edge of the carb inlet!!!!???
thanks again for the time you have taken to help out...
no the boots on engine side are where they need to be
heres a tip
loosen all three air box clamps
with one hand pick the bottom of the airbox up a little bit . it will line up better with carbs
dont try to get all three boots on
get the left one on first and tighten the clamp down while holding it in place
do the center
now do the right one
now repeat after me .......
"If it aint broke , don't fuck with it " :icon_lol:
Quote from: Mustang on June 03, 2013, 10:39:41 PM
now repeat after me .......
"If it aint broke , don't fuck with it " :icon_lol:
thats the problem.. something was and I made it worse hahahaha
I am out there now trying to determine exactly what is rattling... I believe its on teh right side beneath the larger cover... is that in where the alternator is??? the sound changes with engine revs... leads me to believe it is within something that spins... I had previously said starter area but as you pointed out the starter only spins when starting... btu in my frustrations most my logic had been vented haha...
Is there oil in behind this large engine cover??
lots of oil , and a clutch, and some gears ............... seriously don't go there , you are not ready grasshopper
you could well have the dar , the alternator is on the left side though , but I don't recommend you attempt it .
It will be way more costly for you when you screw up , and it is real easy to drop the spag clutch into the bowels of the motor and require a case split
do a search for DAR
I've read almost all the threads... I am not ready to pull motors apart.. I have worked as a basic auto tech for about 6 yrs but have never done internal stuff as I know what I know and I never jump into things unless I feel ok about it and am ready.... I know I could do it if I took the time.. just dont have the time or patience at the moment hahaha
but since going over everything again it doesnt seem to be as loud as it was... seems to have all settled down to the normal noise aka rattles it has always made hahaha
I appreciate your vote of confidence though.. hahahaha (what just cause the clamp was 2mm off hgahahahaha)
back to the drawing board... rode it to work today (first actual ride since putting it back together).. thing rode like a scalded cat on carpet... I thought it ran nice before var the slight flat spot under hard throttle... this AM was almost scary in comparison.. the power and torque was amazing....
by this afternoons commute home there was a few pops, and hesitation under 4K rpm especially in lower gears (ie cruising thru town)...
by the time I got home it was surging around 50mph on 5th (about 4K rpm) by surging I mean it was like all of a sudden it wanted to take off like a scared cat.. it thrust forward then didnt... by the time I stopped in the workshop the left pipe had some smoke (looked like gas smoke ie blue/grey not white) but it went away idling...
So throwing my hands up for now... either I go thru it all again... or I just drive my car... grrrrrrrrrrrrrr