..... for the unfortunate Steamer plastic stretch to put itself right?
Took the tank off Stanley a couple of days ago to run some wiring for heated grips/charging system LED/GPS. Put it on the cold concrete floor in the garage. Went to put it back on the bike yesterday and lo and behold the left hand side panel bolt holes no longer line up at the back end, by at least 1/4"
I read somewhere that it is something to do with the effect of the fuel on the plastic of the tank.... :icon_mad:
Not the fuel, its the climate.
What i`ve done to make things a little easier is to enlarge the mounting holes with a Dremmel.
Still a pig to fit sometimes.
This is interesting. The bike is a '96 and the PO had it from '98 until last year. He says he never had any issues with misalignment of the bodywork. I have had the side panels on and off several times over the last month or so with no issues. Now all of a sudden there is this interesting mis-match. The right side panel went on sort of ok. The left one fits at the front but the rear two screw holes are the ones out of alignment. As can be seen in the pic.
Either the side panel has shrunk or the tank has expanded (but why only on one side??). When I re-fitted the tank it seemed like the rear two mounting holes had migrated backwards, so I am thinking it is the tank that has 'changed'.
I cannot see that it is the temperature because the bike has been sitting in an unheated garage since I got it.
Here are comments from TriumphRat:
"Ethanol does not do those plastic tanks much good. My Daytona has a similar issue with the front tank cover. Every year that cover is harder and harder to put back on. The last hole is at least a 1/4" from lining up and takes a lot of wrestling to get back on. You'll notice that no climate change makes it any better.
Best thing you can do is store the bike for long periods with the fuel tank empty."
"Ethanol attracts water, plastic absorbs water, tanks grow. This is common with plastic tanks, and there is little you can do once they have grown. Like I said, sadly this is common with ethanol.
Also, just like graphics bubble on plastic tanks, vapors escape through the walls and become trapped. This is why most MX graphics are perforated. This will also not be friendly to paint.
Just ask all of the Aprilia, Duc and other Triumph owners. Ethanol and plastic tanks do not mix."
I had a '00 VFR800 with similar plastic to plastic attachment; never had an issue, ever. :icon_scratch: :icon_scratch:
Quote from: nickjtc on March 02, 2014, 08:22:31 PM
..... for the unfortunate Steamer plastic stretch to put itself right?
Took the tank off Stanley a couple of days ago to run some wiring for heated grips/charging system LED/GPS. Put it on the cold concrete floor in the garage. Went to put it back on the bike yesterday and lo and behold the left hand side panel bolt holes no longer line up at the back end, by at least 1/4"
I read somewhere that it is something to do with the effect of the fuel on the plastic of the tank.... :icon_mad:
I stopped putting bolts in all the holes. I usually can get all but one in on each side. That one I dont get in varies. You dont need all the bolts to hold the fairing on. And I havent noticed movement at speed.
Also, I use shoulderless stainless steel bolts with rubber o-rings when there is a lot of displacement.
(http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt4/97tiger885/Tiger/IMG_20140302_164647.jpg)
Side with stainless.
(http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt4/97tiger885/Tiger/IMG_20140302_164747.jpg)
Side with stock.
Currently, I have the rear holes without bolts on both side.
You also might get tired of struggling to get the tank on. I use a short piece of leather belt and a bolt on the front mount. My guess is that you can probably do without the front bolt, that the rear bolts with the fairing bolts are enough to safely secure the tank. I havent tried that.
(http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt4/97tiger885/Tiger/IMG_20140302_164848.jpg)
This is a shot of the front mount between the tank and the yokes. The belt doesnt secure the tank; it holds the rubber protector in place. The top bolt secures the rubber protector in place without the bolt threading into the insert.
Elegant, no; effective, yes.
Quote from: 97tiger885 on March 02, 2014, 10:43:37 PM
Also, I use shoulderless stainless steel bolts with rubber o-rings when there is a lot of displacement.
Sorry that you have had the same issue; but glad I'm not alone!! :icon_wink: I'm thinking shoulderless will be the way to go if it does not put itself right. Being a bit anal I cannot imagine not having all of the securing stuff in place.
Still doesn't explain why the situation has occurred now, though...... :icon_scratch: :icon_scratch: :icon_scratch: :icon_scratch:
Quote from: nickjtc on March 02, 2014, 11:54:25 PM
Still doesn't explain why the situation has occurred now, though...... :icon_scratch: :icon_scratch: :icon_scratch: :icon_scratch:[/font]
like a frightened turtle
http://youtu.be/BEnKLhi83J8
Mine is the same so I mounted the fairing the same as the green weenie above. :icon_wink:
Thanks for this post. Reading of this issue in the past before I bought my Steamer, I misunderstood, and thought the problem was the plastic panels shrinking. This had me thinking about making up a simple angle iron jig with holes drilled in the correct locations to mount to the side panels whenever they were removed to prevent this shrinking from occurring. Other plastic (actually a form of nylon I believe) tanks have expanded and distorted because of the ethanol, so it sounds like the actual issue is not shrinkage of the side panels, but expansion of the fuel tank itself. Perhaps the side panels are acting something like a corset (never saw one of these in real life, but lots of times in old western movies), and once removed, the tank is free to stretch out. Remember Scarlett O'Hara getting dressed for the party in Gone With the Wind?
I will be pulling my side panels and fuel tank off for the first time this spring, so I haven't done the deed yet. Is it possible to drain the tank first, remove the side panels and then the tank, and immediately reattach the side panels to the tank while it is sitting to one side waiting to be reinstalled?
Quote from: nickjtc on March 02, 2014, 10:24:35 PM
I had a '00 VFR800 with similar plastic to plastic attachment; never had an issue, ever. :icon_scratch: :icon_scratch:
Because its a HONDA :notworthy
I removed half the fairing on my Super3 earlier to retrieve the fuel tank rubber bung which had fallen behind oil-cooler. Panels went straight back on..no probs. Triumph CAN make good plastics too :icon_wink:
Mine Tiger's the same. These tanks were made by ACERBIS,not Triumph
When you take it off and set it aside, are you supporting it in the tunnel or are you setting it down on a flat surface with the wings touching the deck? If the latter then I think that's your problem.
Quote from: threepot on March 03, 2014, 02:56:20 PM
Mines the same. These tanks were made by ACERBIS,not Triumph
all the plastics are made by Acerbis, not just the fuel tanks.
the tanks swell and the panels shrink .
it will happen to every steamer ever madeand remember the
youngest steamer is still
16 friggin years old .
Quote from: Mustang on March 03, 2014, 03:37:19 PM
and remember the youngest steamer is still 16 friggin years old .
As always the Man is right, we do tend to look at these bikes through Rose tinted specs :love10
I'm sure if they ever have to unscrew my arse and put it back on later, the holes probably won't line up either :pottytrain2
you got a plastic arse then sin and if you have why you dunkin it in petrol, thats gotta sting :bug_eye
Quote from: rybes on March 03, 2014, 04:59:12 PM
you got a plastic arse then sin and if you have why you dunkin it in petrol, thats gotta sting :bug_eye
:ImaPoser :ImaPoser
But.............. again I ask. WHY NOW? Why not over the previous 17 years or so?? Or is there some kind of alchemy going on where the tank kisses the cold hardness of a garage floor for the first time and decides that it needs to enlarge itself and mess with my mind. :augie :icon_confused: :icon_rolleyes:
And, why only on one side...???
And, the tank is almost empty so it's not like there is a lot of ethanol in there to mess things up. What fuel there is in there has been stabilised.....
Aahhh the joys and idiosyncracies of Steamer ownership.
Quote from: Sin_Tiger on March 03, 2014, 03:28:13 PM
When you take it off and set it aside, are you supporting it in the tunnel or are you setting it down on a flat surface with the wings touching the deck? If the latter then I think that's your problem.
Just took it off and put it on the floor.... just like I have done at least once before. I'm at a loss to see how that would do anything if the problem is swellage caused by the crap in the small amount of fuel in the tank.
Maybe coz of the adding of ethanol in the fuel, all gasoline has a small percentage ethanol mixed in, and maybe also other additives.
My bike also has the same problem, even have to loosen up the bracket on the frame with the 4 M6 bolts to get the tank on properly!
Maybe as suggested before is to store the bike with an empty tank, so the tank can ' dry' during winter time.
Quote from: threepot on March 03, 2014, 02:56:20 PM
Mines the same. These tanks were made by ACERBIS,not Triumph
Now I come to think of it the Acerbis tank I put on the XR650 was an absolute bugger to install. They even mentioned that in the installation instructions. But the next time I took it off and put it on it went nice and smoothly.... just as if it had stretched in the vital contact areas. Hmmmm...... :icon_rolleyes:
Quote from: dave NL on March 03, 2014, 06:28:45 PMMaybe as suggested before is to store the bike with an empty tank, so the tank can ' dry' during winter time.
That will have to wait until next winter because I am not going to take the tank off again unless I absolutely have to. :icon_wink:
Having said that I will want to check the valves at some point this year..
Quote from: ssevy on March 03, 2014, 02:09:25 AM
Thanks for this post. Reading of this issue in the past before I bought my Steamer, I misunderstood, and thought the problem was the plastic panels shrinking. This had me thinking about making up a simple angle iron jig with holes drilled in the correct locations to mount to the side panels whenever they were removed to prevent this shrinking from occurring. Other plastic (actually a form of nylon I believe) tanks have expanded and distorted because of the ethanol, so it sounds like the actual issue is not shrinkage of the side panels, but expansion of the fuel tank itself.......I will be pulling my side panels and fuel tank off for the first time this spring, so I haven't done the deed yet. Is it possible to drain the tank first, remove the side panels and then the tank, and immediately reattach the side panels to the tank while it is sitting to one side waiting to be reinstalled?
Anyone ever tried this?
It's not the petrol affecting his arse, it's the ethanol!
I leave the panels attached and remove the tank and panels together. I have not tried heating or cooling the tank or panels. But looking at your photos it apears the panels have shrunk and you said it was in an unheated garage. So why not take the panels into a heated place for a few hours and see if they expand?.
John
Quote from: Henry James on March 04, 2014, 12:53:17 AMSo why not take the panels into a heated place for a few hours and see if they expand?.John
It's worth a try, just for s's and g's. Will do tonight.
and remember the youngest steamer is still 16 friggin years old .
[/quote]
Yas,let's not forget that.
I had a little encounter with a newish looking GS Sunday :bad. He tried to catch me,but.. He caught me at a traffic light. Wonder what he was thinking when he saw my plate and realised my Tiger is 17!!! :augie
nice one threepot :thumbsup
Quote from: threepot on March 04, 2014, 05:48:52 PM
Wonder what he was thinking when he saw my plate and realised my Tiger is 17!!! :augie
The old girl's still got it :love10
Geoff - I figured out the alcohol goes in the other end now :icon_razz:
I like the idea of leaving the panels on the tank and setting the whole lot on a suspended bit of pipe. Can't say about temp differences, haven't had it off (the tank Geoff the tank) Singapore which never went below 30C. Have you tried taking all the screws out and start connecting from the tank going forward?
More fun is coming your way. Wait until you begin to have problems getting the seat to latch because of the tank stretch. That is the next phase after struggling to attach the tank and to attach the fairings.
Quote from: 97tiger885 on March 04, 2014, 08:22:59 PM
More fun is coming your way. Wait until you begin to have problems getting the seat to latch because of the tank stretch. That is the next phase after struggling to attach the tank and to attach the fairings.
Oh, the humanity!! :icon_lol:
Just remember not to overtighten the seat locating screw into the tank, very easy to do :nono
Quote from: Sin_Tiger on March 05, 2014, 12:34:17 PM
Just remember not to overtighten the seat locating screw into the tank, very easy to do
Haven't touched it. Don't intend to! The side panel has been sitting in a nice toasty living room at Gas Mark 2 for a couple of days. I'll offer it up to the tank when I get home this evening to see if it has expanded back to normal size............. :augie
OK, so it's official. The side panels are definitely not expanding or contracting. After two days in the warm, when I put the left panel back on, it was just as misaligned with the tank as when it had been in the cold. So it must be the tank doing the size-messing-about.
The good news is that by starting at the back and working forward with the retaining bolts I was able to get them all in. The front ones that attach to the screen are a bit thinner (5mm vs. 6mm) and are easier to wiggle into their respective holes.
Now I'm wondering if the fun and games that some people have had with the retaining nuts inset in the tank coming loose has something to do with this whole sorry debacle??? Touch wood it has not affected Stanley yet.
I think the tank screws have more to do with rust than anything else, I'm sure you put a dab of grease on all the screws when you put them back :augie
Im still going to try to let the tank breathe during winter time, drain the fuel and let the fuel cap open for a couple of months
Quote from: Sin_Tiger on March 06, 2014, 10:43:38 AM
I think the tank screws have more to do with rust than anything else, I'm sure you put a dab of grease on all the screws when you put them back :augie
Of course. :icon_wink:Quote from: dave NL on March 06, 2014, 04:36:38 PM
Im still going to try to let the tank breathe during winter time, drain the fuel and let the fuel cap open for a couple of months
I will be interested to hear how that works out.
Yes,me too :icon_mrgreen:
I'm wondering if part of the redesign involved with the first Girlies involved getting rid of the separate front panels because Triumph was aware of this unfortunate situation....
no ,none of the steamers were showing the shrunken panels yet.....................
it was all about trying to look more like a certain german m/c
ive got a tank thats laid dry for months. when i get back to england ill try it on and see how it fits with the panels and let you know
Quote from: Mustang on March 12, 2014, 08:01:55 PMit was all about trying to look more like a certain german m/c
Triumph doing plagiarism?? Surely you jest :icon_wink:
Quote from: rybes on March 12, 2014, 09:16:49 PM
ive got a tank thats laid dry for months. when i get back to england ill try it on and see how it fits with the panels and let you know
Curious about that! Hope it makes a difference.
hopefully ill be back in 2 or 3 weeks to sort me tiger out so ill try it then. i hate bein without me bike :icon_cry: speshally as i have to hear bout how nice the weather is for ridin from Camilla as shes out on hers every day :icon_mad:
doubtful that letting it "air" out will have any effect .
I have one thats been hanging on the wall for over ten years .
side panels don't fit an it doesnt line up too good with the three mounting bolts .
and cold temperature doesn't cause it either as my tigers live in a heated garage . never goes below 69 f .
it's simply a case of the plastic (nylon) shrinks over time . some less some worse than others .
you could take a new old stock panel thats been sitting on the shelf for 10+ years and I bet it won't fit correctly.
BUT (and coming full circle with this thread)..... none of this explains why Stanley, at the tender age of 17 in December, has had never an issue with the whole mis-alignment thing according to the po of 15 years.
UNLESS he has been fibbing to me and has never done any maintenance that required removal of the sidepanels and tank, and the side panels have been acting like a splint holding everything together in alignment. :qgaraduate :qgaraduate
Aaargh, fricker fracker and all the other deleted expletives. Where does it end? Had the centre front screen panel off over the weekend to install a LED voltmeter into the dash and when I tried to put it back on lo and behold the bottom three bolts don't fit any more.
I've given up swearing and cursing..... the silly thing is held on quite securely by the side bolts so I've put the others in a baggie for future consideration.
Quote from: nickjtc on March 18, 2014, 04:38:40 AM
Aaargh, fricker fracker and all the other deleted expletives. Where does it end? Had the centre front screen panel off over the weekend to install a LED voltmeter into the dash and when I tried to put it back on lo and behold the bottom three bolts don't fit any more.
I've given up swearing and cursing..... the silly thing is held on quite securely by the side bolts so I've put the others in a baggie for future consideration.
I have found the following technique to be successful. For the front center screen, first locate the two top bolts. Do not tighten; start them only. Locate the center bottom bolt. This bolt attaches the panel to a metal tab which provides frame support. Do not tighten. Locate the bottom bolts to the left and right of the bottom center. These connect the front panel to the side panes, i.e., plastic to plastic. Do not tighten. Locate the remaining bolts. Tighten all bolts.
The order in which you do the front center panel bolts matters. You need to find the order which works for you. There was a lot of trial and error before I found a procedure that worked. It still is a bit of a chore to do, but all of the bolts get in. The top two and the bottom center are the most difficult for me. I often use a small screwdriver as a locator to align the center bottom hole with the threads in the tab.
psst ..............start the bottom center one first .
work your way to the top on both sides .
lift the entire fairing up with one hand from under the headlights to align the top two bolts ,
now tighten them all up , they only need to be finger tight
bam easy peasy
Might be worth checking the main fairing frame stay hasn't fractured. Mine had, and it really affected it. I believe it was modified on later bikes to include a bracing tube welded to the existing part, where it attaches to the frame
Got any pics of that Phil.I know my baby has a bit of a twist but I have a spare.
OK, here's a question for all of you experienced Steamerphiles. The infuriating fuel tank stretch has been discussed, and the flakey paint syndrome that seems to go with it. If a person has the plastic re-painted (which is being discussed on the 'choices choices' thread as we speak) what guarantee is there that it will not separate at some point in the future?
Quote from: nickjtc on March 31, 2014, 12:03:39 AM
OK, here's a question for all of you experienced Steamerphiles. The infuriating fuel tank stretch has been discussed, and the flakey paint syndrome that seems to go with it. If a person has the plastic re-painted (which is being discussed on the 'choices choices' thread as we speak) what guarantee is there that it will not separate at some point in the future?
there isn't
but if one had a paint shop use an additive in the paint like they do with urethane bumper covers on autos
it would seem to suggest a snowball's chance in hell could be feasible
I would call the Caswell tank liner folks and ask them if their tank kit seals a plastic tank. If it does, seal the inside and there will be an impervious barrier to the fuel migrating outward. That's what I am going to try.
Quote from: Mustang on March 18, 2014, 08:50:29 PM
psst ..............start the bottom center one first . work your way to the top on both sides .
lift the entire fairing up with one hand from under the headlights to align the top two bolts ,
now tighten them all up , they only need to be finger tight bam easy peasy
Just got around to re-doing the bolts (everything stays in place with the lower three missing, after all :thumbsup) and you are right. Starting at the bottom does the trick. The fact that the rubber grommet things that they screw into are squishy helps, especially at the top. Thanks.
Did you notice any strain on the screws when removing the fairing panel? Mine did that after a get-off twisted the headlight bracket that the front of the fairing attaches to, via the headlight fairing. You might need to check alignment & tweak the front subframe.
It's surprising what these old bears can take, without complaint until you have given it a chance to rest.
My 95 is at http://fishnbiker.smugmug.com/Motorcycles (http://fishnbiker.smugmug.com/Motorcycles)
Quote from: fishnbiker on April 27, 2014, 06:55:42 AM
Did you notice any strain on the screws when removing the fairing panel?
No. The only strain was to my brain having to deal with this unwelcome idiosyncrasy of the bike. :icon_wink: But I'll forgive it that; every ride increases my joy of ownership.