Just read it and the winner is........
The Explorer with a score of 90.64%
1200GS came 11th!
Super Ten was 2nd, BMW 1600GT third.
The BMW guys and gals are probably crying in their cornflakes about now.
And there was me thinking that BMW and the Peterborough magazine mafia were bound together forever.
Triumph build bikes for real people,not these Ewan McGregor/Charlie Bloody BOREman wannabees! Nice one :thumbsup
:icon_confused:
Quote from: robxxxx on March 15, 2014, 11:23:52 PM
And there was me thinking that BMW and the Peterborough magazine mafia were bound together forever.
Interesting seeing a post like that,having worked for the magazine mafia they ain't bound to anyone they are far too mercenary for that,but interesting that you think otherwise
Quote from: Chris Canning on March 16, 2014, 03:34:34 PM
:icon_confused:Quote from: robxxxx on March 15, 2014, 11:23:52 PM
And there was me thinking that BMW and the Peterborough magazine mafia were bound together forever.
Interesting seeing a post like that, having worked for the magazine mafia they ain't bound to anyone they are far too mercenary for that, but interesting that you think otherwise
Isn't it a question of he who throws the most advertising pounds/dollars/euros at the magazine gets the most attention...??
Quote from: nickjtc on March 16, 2014, 06:42:00 PM
Quote from: Chris Canning on March 16, 2014, 03:34:34 PM
:icon_confused:Quote from: robxxxx on March 15, 2014, 11:23:52 PM
And there was me thinking that BMW and the Peterborough magazine mafia were bound together forever.
Interesting seeing a post like that, having worked for the magazine mafia they ain't bound to anyone they are far too mercenary for that, but interesting that you think otherwise
Isn't it a question of he who throws the most advertising pounds/dollars/euros at the magazine gets the most attention...??
That's a very large NO I can assure you,while I was there I tried to get then to have an open day at the offices because 99% of folk would have a mighty shock at how hard core they are and how well they ride,yea sure at launches they wined and dine and given god knows what but everyone does it so your back to square one and when a bike is crap they'll say so,dig up MCN's write up on the VFR 1200 :icon_rolleyes:Honda.
I've noticed that MCN get a lot of stick on Youtube for being 'over' complimentary/biased towards Triumph.
They're talking bollocks then, and have short memories. Triumph endured years of "nice try, but have another go" during the years of TT600, 955i Daytona etc. Triumph might be getting praise now, but they've earned it. And the bikes are genuinely as good or better than the opposition, the journos don't need to be biased.
Quote from: Bixxer Bob on March 16, 2014, 10:11:45 PMTriumph endured years of "nice try, but have another go" during the years of TT600, 955i Daytona etc. Triumph might be getting praise now, but they've earned it. And the bikes are genuinely as good or better than the opposition, the journos don't need to be biased.
+1. I never owned a modern British bike until the Thruxton in 2010. I was amazed at how well built it was and had to keep kicking myself that I did not get a Triumph sooner. Stanley seems to be just as well made (and actually made in England), despite the design and engineering idiosyncrasies. :icon_wink: The proof of the pud'n will be in the riding, of course.
Quote from: Chris Canning on March 16, 2014, 03:34:34 PM
:icon_confused:Quote from: robxxxx on March 15, 2014, 11:23:52 PM
And there was me thinking that BMW and the Peterborough magazine mafia were bound together forever.
Interesting seeing a post like that,having worked for the magazine mafia they ain't bound to anyone they are far too mercenary for that,but interesting that you think otherwise
I too felt that about MCN, maybe that's just the way it came across from buying it on the news stand and reading it.
Then on Wednesday I read (in MCN) about BMW's attitude to Kevin Ash's widow after the inquest and my blood boiled. I was ambivalent towards that make but I swear I will never allow myself to be associated with a company that has this sort of disregard for people and mightier than thou attitude. I think they may have seriously under estimated the respect that the motorcycle community at large had for Kevin and will not come out of this well no matter what kind of spin they put on it.
The lack of an editorial comment however speaks volumes to me at least.
Rant over and back OT.
I'm not that surprised really, I think the people who bought one and I was very close to being one of them, just ignored the ho ha and liked the bike, went on and rode it and have been happy, particularly it seems with Triumph's attitude towards sorting out what was perceived by some owners as a problem, the top end noise (they obviously never owned and loved a Steamer).
I suspect the 800 will also slowly become a much better regarded bike in time much like the Steamers in their day.
Quote from: threepot on March 16, 2014, 09:16:44 PM
I've noticed that MCN get a lot of stick on Youtube for being 'over' complimentary/biased towards Triumph.
Funny reading a post like that you wouldn't care explain why MCN fell out with Triumph then would you to the point that they(MCN) had to get their bikes from a dealer to test,the journo's are a hard nosed bunch you have the trade trying blow smoke up their ass all the time the public being just as bad be it them bad mouthing their latest effort in print(with both a budget and schedule to stick too) or the phone never stops ringing with some guy other telling them how he's built a special and it turns out to have painted wheels and anodised bar end :icon_rolleyes:
The last time I was in BSD(MCN and the mags use them for dyno testing) I'd taken a mate to collect his bike,while I'm there two journo's turn up who I know,do us a favour Chris they say yea right I reply how's F off sound!!! I'd had 3 years of e'm by then and had enough,can you go and pick a V4 Aprillia up it's 2 miles down the road and it's stopped.
Sure enough it had and I get it back to BSD there is then a major inquest do they return it to Aprillia with a note saying it's stopped or in the interests of journalistic integrity do they strip it,they did strip and the motor had blown a core plug and Aprillia hit the roof!!!!,as far as riding gear goes I asked why they didn't wear old gear like the real world and the answer because we get free new stuff and manafacturers get the hump if were not wearing it in the photos,but as I've seen in the past if it's crap they'll say so.
If folk think their bias it's in your head believe me they are absolutely ruthless and have no allegiance to anyone because they are always taking shit from both sides.
The journo's may think they are ruthless Chris, but lets not forget that most of the current crop of bike mags are owned by the Bauer Media Group. And that cant be a good thing. A large company owning most of the bike press. They are in it for the money, and not the few pounds we pay them, but the advertising revenue. So they can write what they like, but my guess is that the editorial staff have to work overtime to "tailor" things.
I was in the Hi-Fi trade for about 20 years and the same thing would happen there. Product gets a good review, and the mags are on the phone trying to sell you ad space.
And just so you don't think I am pointing the finger at BMW, let me give you an example. The 1200 Explorer top end problems. Lots of owners had issues with this. Any mention in MCN? When Triumph finally did the recall, what did MCN do, yea they printed a small column on about page twenty down one corner.
We get the press we deserve.
By the way Chris, the VFR1200, do you mean this review that got 5 stars?
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/mcn/bikereviews/searchresults/bike-reviews/honda/honda-vfr1200f-2010-current/ (http://www.motorcyclenews.com/mcn/bikereviews/searchresults/bike-reviews/honda/honda-vfr1200f-2010-current/)
Quote from: robxxxx on March 17, 2014, 12:50:51 AMBy the way Chris, the VFR1200, do you mean this review that got 5 stars?
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/mcn/bikereviews/searchresults/bike-reviews/honda/honda-vfr1200f-2010-current/ (http://www.motorcyclenews.com/mcn/bikereviews/searchresults/bike-reviews/honda/honda-vfr1200f-2010-current/)
However, if you read that piece they slag it royally at the same time as giving it 4 or 5 stars. As a punter what is a person supposed to think??
I firmly believe that if a rider really wants a particular bike (and I am as guilty as the next person) they will buy it regardless of what the press says, good or bad.
The motorcycle press over here usually tells it like it is when new models come along. For example "Here is Harley's latest and greatest, but it only has a new paint scheme this year". But that does not stop the buyer going out to buy them because they have made up their mind that a particular model is the one they absolutely have to buy.
I have to admit I am really drawn to the magazines that no longer do the 'ra ra' over new machines, but have interesting and thought provoking articles on motorcycling esoterica. Cycle Canada springs to mind....
My 22 cents worth. (2 cents + inflation.) :augie
Quote from: Sin_Tiger on March 16, 2014, 10:34:52 PM
I too felt that about MCN, maybe that's just the way it came across from buying it on the news stand and reading it.
Then on Wednesday I read (in MCN) about BMW's attitude to Kevin Ash's widow after the inquest and my blood boiled. I was ambivalent towards that make but I swear I will never allow myself to be associated with a company that has this sort of disregard for people and mightier than thou attitude. I think they may have seriously under estimated the respect that the motorcycle community at large had for Kevin and will not come out of this well no matter what kind of spin they put on it.
The lack of an editorial comment however speaks volumes to me at least.
Is that last Wednesdays? I didn't buy a copy this week. Will have to try to find a copy.
Quote from: robxxxx on March 17, 2014, 12:50:51 AM
The journo's may think they are ruthless Chris, but lets not forget that most of the current crop of bike mags are owned by the Bauer Media Group. And that cant be a good thing. A large company owning most of the bike press. They are in it for the money, and not the few pounds we pay them, but the advertising revenue. So they can write what they like, but my guess is that the editorial staff have to work overtime to "tailor" things.
I was in the Hi-Fi trade for about 20 years and the same thing would happen there. Product gets a good review, and the mags are on the phone trying to sell you ad space.
And just so you don't think I am pointing the finger at BMW, let me give you an example. The 1200 Explorer top end problems. Lots of owners had issues with this. Any mention in MCN? When Triumph finally did the recall, what did MCN do, yea they printed a small column on about page twenty down one corner.
We get the press we deserve.
By the way Chris, the VFR1200, do you mean this review that got 5 stars?
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/mcn/bikereviews/searchresults/bike-reviews/honda/honda-vfr1200f-2010-current/ (http://www.motorcyclenews.com/mcn/bikereviews/searchresults/bike-reviews/honda/honda-vfr1200f-2010-current/)
You obviously never read the original right up,the write up in your link isn't good either so who's the one being selective!!! doesn't look 5 star too me.
As for the rest of your post the journo's have no connection to the add dept it's on another floor,the only exception you get is with the like's of 1200 VFR,the journo wrote the article about the bike and they had to bring in the great and the good from Bauer in the middle of the night actually I'm not sure if it was still EMAP anyway they burned the midnight and in the end realised the trade need the media just as much as the other way round and they printed,look for the article by Phil West.
Honda went absolutely banana's.
As for the Triumph top end that's because YOU have one how about VFR R/R or my K1200 that can be a mechanical monster clutchs/gearbox/shaft drive, if the mags or MCN did a post everytime a manufacturer had a problem there'd be no room for anything else.
Just think it's funny that the public think the journo's are selective when the reality it's the other way round.
I read the article on Kevin Ash,I wasn't happy with it either but like all corperate companies they cover their arse and you can substitute BM for any other manufacturer you'd get the same result they'll admit nothing.
+1. I never owned a modern British bike until the Thruxton in 2010. I was amazed at how well built it was and had to keep kicking myself that I did not get a Triumph sooner. Stanley seems to be just as well made (and actually made in England), despite the design and engineering idiosyncrasies. :icon_wink: The proof of the pud'n will be in the riding, of course.
[/quote]
A friend of mine traded his 900 Monster in for a Thruxton. He's had it 3yrs now and loves it. Think that sums up where Triumph now stands. I'm loyal to the marque,but pissed off with spare parts prices :icon_evil:
Quote from: threepot on March 16, 2014, 09:16:44 PM
I've noticed that MCN get a lot of stick on Youtube for being 'over' complimentary/biased towards Triumph.
Only made this point because what I have read on Youtube. Maybe the testers have got their heads up Triumph's arses? Or maybe people don't like the truth,and that Triumph are making class-leading bikes. I'll tell you somebody that Triumph has pissed off.......Nick Saunders. I watched something the other day,about his 'round the world' exploits..he didn't even mention or show the Daytona he used on one of the trips. All Yamaha!
I can't remember if it was MCN or one of the mags but one of them had a 1050 Triumph either a sprint or Tiger anyway they ran it out of oil and it went pop,the journos wrote an article about if burning oil and Triumph quite rightly got the hump because no one checked the oil and boy did they fall out in some spectacular fashion and that went on for some years hence the irony in the original post.
And don't ever go thinking that all the mags and MCN are on the same footing MCN look down their nose's at the mag's in fairness because the journo's at MCN can ride a dam sight better,regardless the average guy out there wouldn't keep up with any of e'm.
Quoteyou can substitute BM for any other manufacturer you'd get the same result they'll admit nothing.
No arguments there.
Article was in 12th March edition, doubt you'll find a copy now, I'll pm you later.
I spoke to Nick Saunders at a show, odd character (and that's coming from me :icon_wink:) I liked the guy and agreed with a lot of what he had to say but he did strike me as being a bit mercenary, he gets what he wants the way he wants it or he just walls away just my impression.
I bought my first 885i ,after a couple weeks order the aftermarket pipe and bypass tube when it comes the bolt that holds the can to the rear of the frame is miles out,even when I went to the company that was making it and they put Triumph on the phone and even then they wouldn't admit it was a F up,it's the way are,although it comes to warranty work I'll take BM over Triumph or anyone else for that matter.
Quote from: Sin_Tiger on March 17, 2014, 05:43:09 PM
Quoteyou can substitute BM for any other manufacturer you'd get the same result they'll admit nothing.
No arguments there.
Article was in 12th March edition, doubt you'll find a copy now, I'll pm you later.
I spoke to Nick Saunders at a show, odd character (and that's coming from me :icon_wink:) I liked the guy and agreed with a lot of what he had to say but he did strike me as being a bit mercenary, he gets what he wants the way he wants it or he just walls away just my impression.
Hence why so many of trips end up in a bust up :icon_wink:
Got an MCN Sin. Although harsh, I can see BMWs point. They'll have to show the evidence if it goes to civil court though :icon_rolleyes:
That's what I thought and why I couldn't understand the position they were taking. :icon_scratch:
Anyway, back to your original subject.
The fact that this is owner feedback gives me some heart. In my experience a lot of the newer Tiger owners are more the go it alone type and therefore not as group organised as say the GSA bunch who tend to be more like a bus load of ramblers when it comes to militant organisation.
I think there coukd be a bit of the Android thing going on with Triumph owners as well. What I mean is I tolerate Android's sometimes clunkiness because there's no way I'd follow the crowd in buying anything by Apple, even if it is better. Which it's not but that's a whole other arguement. :icon_mrgreen:
Quote from: Sin_Tiger on March 17, 2014, 10:19:46 PM
In my experience a lot of the newer Tiger owners are more the go it alone type and therefore not as group organised as say the GSA bunch who tend to be more like a bus load of ramblers when it comes to militant organisation.
Nothing to do with newer,at one stage there were 5 Tiger sites on the go 3 Yahoo this one and the RAT,the originator of this site actually went and bought a GS :icon_rolleyes:
Quote from: Chris Canning on March 17, 2014, 11:37:59 PM
Quote from: Sin_Tiger on March 17, 2014, 10:19:46 PM
In my experience a lot of the newer Tiger owners are more the go it alone type and therefore not as group organised as say the GSA bunch who tend to be more like a bus load of ramblers when it comes to militant organisation.
Nothing to do with newer,at one stage there were 5 Tiger sites on the go 3 Yahoo this one and the RAT,the originator of this site actually went and bought a GS :icon_rolleyes:
That's not what I'm talking about Chris, read it again.
Quote from: Sin_Tiger on March 18, 2014, 01:33:40 AM
Quote from: Chris Canning on March 17, 2014, 11:37:59 PM
Quote from: Sin_Tiger on March 17, 2014, 10:19:46 PM
In my experience a lot of the newer Tiger owners are more the go it alone type and therefore not as group organised as say the GSA bunch who tend to be more like a bus load of ramblers when it comes to militant organisation.
Nothing to do with newer,at one stage there were 5 Tiger sites on the go 3 Yahoo this one and the RAT,the originator of this site actually went and bought a GS :icon_rolleyes:
That's not what I'm talking about Chris, read it again.
I've read it again and it says the same the GS have one site their not militant but do they stick together,with 4 bikes I use god knows how many websites,Tiger owners are very go it alone(actually I'd say very strange) and always have been hence why there are and have been so many different websites(I know of no other bike like that) the slightest blip 'Oh I'll set up another website'
You'll note that the GS forum includes all GS's from stone age to watercooled the Tiger lot have a different site for each model you don't have to tell anyone that Tiger owners are the go it alone type it's a mentality thing :icon_wink:
Delve into the Hilltop remap thread on the GS site if you want to know the difference between GS and Tiger owners.
Where did I mention anything about websites?
Quote from: Sin_Tiger on March 18, 2014, 11:17:21 AM
Where did I mention anything about websites?
Oh blimey everything has to be in a literal sense e'h it was just an example to show what an odd ball bunch Tiger owners are,regardless of what anyone thinks of the GS lot they do have camaraderie Tiger owners have non,people have short memories but when the 1050 came out the old guard of the steamer and 955 brigade made it very clear what the position was hence they buggered off and started their own site,but of course nothing to do with sites just an example :icon_wink:
Quote from: Chris Canning on March 18, 2014, 09:35:08 AM
Tiger owners are very go it alone(actually I'd say very strange) and always have been hence why there are and have been so many different websites(I know of no other bike like that) the slightest blip 'Oh I'll set up another website'
Oh really :icon_rolleyes:
http://www.ukgser.com/
http://www.gsclubuk.org/forum/
http://www.bmwgs.co.uk/
http://www.f650.co.uk/
http://www.r1200gs.info/forum/
Quote
You'll note that the GS forum includes all GS's from stone age to watercooled
Every single one?
Chris, what are you going on about :icon_lol: :icon_lol: :icon_lol:
Doesn't it all boil down to the fact that we are usually mad keen about the particular machine in our life that is current flavour du jour? Not that one is 'better' than another, or that the owners of one brand are that bit more fervent about their particular machine?
When I had the VFR800 it was the best bike in the world, imho at the time. When I had the '79 CB650 it was obviously the best sohc Honda ever made. :augie The Thruxton was my first Triumph and I was in awe at how well it did all the things I needed it to do. Now I've got a Steamer I am expectant that it will also do everything I hope.
Let's face it, the % separation of the top bikes in the RIDE survey is not that great and the fact that BMW have slipped a bit down the rankings doesn't mean that the bike has turned to cr@p over the years, just that there are riders of other bikes who have had slightly better experiences with theirs.
Quote from: chairhead on March 18, 2014, 06:04:55 PM
Quote from: Chris Canning on March 18, 2014, 09:35:08 AM
Tiger owners are very go it alone(actually I'd say very strange) and always have been hence why there are and have been so many different websites(I know of no other bike like that) the slightest blip 'Oh I'll set up another website'
http://www.ukgser.com/
The rest are a minor detail jeeze they even have a triumph section :icon_eek:
While I'm convinced that the GS lot when buying one have some kind of injection the 'Oh so superior type' but f me it's a good website.
But where they really fall down is the 'Kings Clothes' with the like of Hilltop Remap mind you as I once had pointed out to me if the lord hadn't mean't you to be sheared he wouldn't have made you a sheep :icon_lol:
Quote from: nickjtc on March 18, 2014, 07:50:59 PM
Doesn't it all boil down to the fact that we are usually mad keen about the particular machine in our life that is current flavour du jour? Not that one is 'better' than another, or that the owners of one brand are that bit more fervent about their particular machine?
When I had the VFR800 it was the best bike in the world, imho at the time. When I had the '79 CB650 it was obviously the best sohc Honda ever made. :augie The Thruxton was my first Triumph and I was in awe at how well it did all the things I needed it to do. Now I've got a Steamer I am expectant that it will also do everything I hope.
Let's face it, the % separation of the top bikes in the RIDE survey is not that great and the fact that BMW have slipped a bit down the rankings doesn't mean that the bike has turned to cr@p over the years, just that there are riders of other bikes who have had slightly better experiences with theirs.
Well if there was a prize for the person who's ridden the most miles with a mate on a VFR I'd win it he's had a 750 2 800's and 3 V Tech's I've ridden them and I think they really are one of the great all round bikes and the same with BM's GS but neither are for me,but I understand why folks buy them,but I have to confess non of the bikes I have bought have made me think they are the best in the world,more like their a decent starting point to make them better.
As for Triumph my first new Tiger lasted 6 weeks :icon_sad: and Triumph supplied me with a new one :icon_rolleyes: and the moment the warranty ran out so did I !!! but it didn't stop me buying a 3rd and by which time I realised Triumph had started to get their act together well sort of !!! and it had possibilities so with a change of rather a lot it's not too bad.