The day after picking mine up from the starter and sprag clutch being done under warranty, I had an unfortunate battery failure this weekend. I was running a Gerbing jacket and gloves, and auxiliary lights. I've run this kit before with no problems but the suggestion is that this was overdrawing on the system.
What electrical kit are people running simultaneously without issues? I'd be interested in hearing from one and all.
Cheers.
no electrical kit running here but I had to have the battery replaced on guarantee after about 6 months - it would not deliver under load.
AFAIK the Tiger has 480 Watts of power coming from the alternator. You would need some serious load on it to run the battery down.
I use a heated jacket liner and have both headlamps working all the time and have not had any problems.
Look at it this way ; the worst situation is :-
2x60W headlamps =120W
2x21W brake lights + 42W
2x21W indicators + 42W
circa 30W instruments + 30W
=234W
Leaves you with over 200Watts for you accessories.
Do you have an alarm draining the battery overnight or longer?
Do you do lots of short journeys?
Do you use an "Optimate" or similar?
I would suggest getting your generator output and regulator and battery checked. It's got to be one of them, if it's not you.
No alarm, no short journeys, use a battery tender yes.
This is what I believe I was running:
GERBING JACKET: 77 watts
GERBING GLOVES: 22 watts
MOTOLIGHTS: 70 watts
= 169 watts drawn by accessories
Quote from: "Blacktiger"AFAIK the Tiger has 480 Watts of power coming from the alternator. You would need some serious load on it to run the battery down.
I use a heated jacket liner and have both headlamps working all the time and have not had any problems.
Look at it this way ; the worst situation is :-
2x60W headlamps =120W
2x21W brake lights + 42W
2x21W indicators + 42W
circa 30W instruments + 30W
=234W
Leaves you with over 200Watts for you accessories.
What about the engine? doesn't the EFI draw any power?
I was thinking about this issue last winter. I was wondering if I can get a higher output alternator for the Tiger. But then spring came and I started riding... :lol:
Quote from: "BykBoy"Quote from: "Blacktiger"AFAIK the Tiger has 480 Watts of power coming from the alternator. You would need some serious load on it to run the battery down.
I use a heated jacket liner and have both headlamps working all the time and have not had any problems.
Look at it this way ; the worst situation is :-
2x60W headlamps =120W
2x21W brake lights + 42W
2x21W indicators + 42W
circa 30W instruments + 30W
=234W
Leaves you with over 200Watts for you accessories.
What about the engine? doesn't the EFI draw any power?
I was thinking about this issue last winter. I was wondering if I can get a higher output alternator for the Tiger. But then spring came and I started riding... :lol:
Make it:
1 or 2 x 55W low beam (60W hi beam) = 110W
2 x 10W tail light = 20W
2 x 5W position lights = 10W
2 x 10W indicators + 2W indicator control = 22 W (while running, only half the time ["works, doesn`t work, works again, doesn't work; man, you got a bad contact there!"]) => make it 11 W
about seven bulbs with 3 to 5W for cockpit illumination = about 30W could be right
up to 4 further warning/control lights @ 2W each = make it 4W
total to this point: 185W
Got heated grips? Add another 55W, I think. These are 240W
EFI? Fuel pump? the one or other relay (headlight?) = no idea
By the figures there has to be a lot of room for electrical accessories. BUT:
The alternator does 480 W
at max. The actual output depends from the motor's revs. At idle you would slowly but shurely drain your battery with two headlights and heated grips at max.
I added two 55w fog lights to my TIgA and with both fog lights and low beams and heated grips at max, I drained the battery while riding at 5-6K revs.
Shortly after that I took following measures:
-replaced position lights, tail lights, indicators and indicator control light with LEDs
- installed a "battery guard" which will warn me, if voltage drops to low
- don't run fog lights and heated grips together for a longer time
- especialy if I run any other heated clothing!
Further measures that are planned:
- replace some of the cockpit illumination with LEDs
- install a stepless regulation for heated grips so I don't have to run them on full power when low power is too low.
Have fun!
Patrick
dredging up the past, but I haven't seen it addressed much
I am headed out on a 15-20k tour of the States in June and wanted some driving lights... but as I am fidning out , adding 110watts of lights is not going to go well with the system, especially if I happen to want my heated gear at the same time.
As it is, I do notice a considerable difference in heat output from the vest when I ride in a higher gear on the 30 deg F days in Maine.
I see there are HID lights out there for way more than I care to spend that get me two 35 watt bulbs...
Then there are the wimpy led solutions that just can't throw the photons down the road...
Seems to be there ought to be a market for a lower wattage solution to the driving light issue
Has anyone played with using a 55Watt H3 light setup and swapping out for a 35 Watt Bulb?
Any other ideas?
Hi Guys,
I added a couple of aux lights on mine, 55W each. I posted in another topic about this already. Riding around town, I had two or three engine cuts while coasting to a stop at traffic lights.
I just got my bike (2004 Tiger) and am not sure if this was due to the lights or some other problem that I missed when I bought it.
I thought that 110 W wouldn't be a problem but it may be at low revs. The battery only gets charged above a certain rpms so riding round town doesn't help.
Anyway, what kind of problems did you have? My engine cut out a couple of times and while stopped at a shop I was not able to start it. After 30 minutes or so with the bike off, the battery recovered enough to start the bike.
Of course, all this happened just after I installed the lights and perhaps I wasted too much battery turning the lights on and off so many times during installation.
I'll see what happens now (rainy weekend here - no riding tomorrow :cry: ) and will let you guys know.
Regards,
John
I strongly recommend that Tiger riders install a voltmeter on or near the gauges to keep track of electrical goings-on. Doing so allows you to keep track of the condition of the charging system under various loads.
Without one you're just guessing, and if your accessories are pulling too much juice, you won't know it until the battery gets too low to run the fuel pump, injectors, and ignition. You're walking then, baby.
Cheap insurance... http://www.DatelMeters.com/cgi-bin/webs ... g=ent-home (http://www.datelmeters.com/cgi-bin/webshop.cgi?config=ent-home)
Hi from a new forum user.
(02 - 57k miles, 06 - 8k miles)
Here's my thoughts.
This is what I am running on my 06
Load WATTS
Garmin 15 Assumes a dead battery
Heated Gear 77 On high
Heated Grips 43 On high
Volt Meter 0.2
HID Lights 26
Tank Bag Acc 5
Total Max Draw 166.2
These are numbers that I use for a base line
Load Watts
High/low Beams 120
Brake/Tail 42
ECU/Instruments 30
Fuel Pump 60
Cooling Fan 60
Directional 10
TOTAL Max Load 325
I found the ECU/Instruments, cooling fan and fuel pump numbers on a web site a long time ago. Don't know how accurate they are but they have to be considered. Some other things to consider, we don't run the turn signals all the time and the fan is going to run far less in cold weather when we will be running heated gear.
If these numbers are close, the bottom line as I see it is that we have 480 – 325= 155 watts that we should be able to use at all times. I have always considered this a delicate balance of available wattage, the additional loads we put on the Tiger and the health of the battery and charging system.
Another good reason for the Voltage Fix.
No problems running the Piaa 910 aux. lights with 2-100w bulbs, heated grips, & magellan. Just dont leave em on when you stop for fuel :x
+1 there on Stretch's voltmeter great idea.
One solution could be to replace the OEM headlights with a pair of HIDs. You can find them for as low as $120 now days. They work great and give you more light for less watts.
I also remember someone posting a main-harness-bypass-how-to on this forum. Claims to help pump up the charge from 12-13 AMP range to low 14 AMP at idle RPMs.
Quote from: "BykBoy"One solution could be to replace the OEM headlights with a pair of HIDs. You can find them for as low as $120 now days. They work great and give you more light for less watts.
I also remember someone posting a main-harness-bypass-how-to on this forum. Claims to help pump up the charge from 12-13 AMP range to low 14 AMP at idle RPMs.
That would be Volts, not Amps.
Quote from: "Stretch"I strongly recommend that Tiger riders install a voltmeter on or near the gauges to keep track of electrical goings-on. Doing so allows you to keep track of the condition of the charging system under various loads.
Without one you're just guessing, and if your accessories are pulling too much juice, you won't know it until the battery gets too low to run the fuel pump, injectors, and ignition. You're walking then, baby.
Cheap insurance... http://www.DatelMeters.com/cgi-bin/webs ... g=ent-home (http://www.datelmeters.com/cgi-bin/webshop.cgi?config=ent-home)
Stretch is right on here! I had a problem last fall when running my Gerbing jacket liner, heated grips and MotoLights w/ 2-50W halolgens. I flattened the battery several times. Since then, I did the Sasquatch voltage fix, (now getting 14.3V at idle, w/much better consistency through the rev range). I dropped back to the stock 35W bulbs in the lights and installed a voltage meter. So far so good! :lol: I originally thought I was having the infamous charging system issues and would be replacing expensive parts - not so.
It was stated the alternator puts out 480 watts....
I read that and questioned it..... my notes on my service page says
420 watts.
So I looked in my service manual: The alternator output on a 955cc
motor is 35 amps.
I remember grumbling about that because it clearly shows Triumph was NOT interested in building an adventure bike... especially when BMW were pumping 500+ watts for all their goodies. ( Unless of course the Adventure is sitting on the side of the road ).
So if you are drawing at max 234 watts for the bike.... you only have 186 left for other stuff..
I know your jacket liner takes 76 watts; Gloves about 45 watts; Aux lights,
hopefully 120 watts...... your dead!
I'd get a battery read-out display..... you are pressing the envelope.
You can probably get by 90% of the time..... but when you are by yourself, a long way from help, in the cold...... that's when it will bite you.
If you are not running a terminal strip operated by a relay... do so.
Quote from: "TigerTrax"It was stated the alternator puts out 480 watts....
I read that and questioned it..... my notes on my service page says
420 watts.
So I looked in my service manual: The alternator output on a 955cc
motor is 35 amps.
Lets not forget: Power = Voltage X Current
So, 35 amps at 12V means 420Watts maximum available.
Now we know we can get 14.5V at the battery terminals. (Thanks sasquatch!) So at 14.5V, the 35A protected charging circuit can output ~500W before the fuse blows.
But we know that the stator can only put out so much power. This is a function of the RPM, wire gauge, fixed magnet field strength, geometry, and heat dissipation capabilities. The number I have heard is around 350W. This makes sense as we should never really be operating near the rated fuse capacity. If consumption exceeds 350W, than the voltage will drop. The battery will then add extra power and run down if the total load is not reduced.
I'll be combing over my electrical system this weekend. I have a really cool current meter that I will be using. I'll be writing it up soon. We'll see what happens.
Quote from: "Stretch"I strongly recommend that Tiger riders install a voltmeter on or near the gauges to keep track of electrical goings-on. Doing so allows you to keep track of the condition of the charging system under various loads.
Without one you're just guessing, and if your accessories are pulling too much juice, you won't know it until the battery gets too low to run the fuel pump, injectors, and ignition. You're walking then, baby.
Cheap insurance... http://www.DatelMeters.com/cgi-bin/webs ... g=ent-home (http://www.datelmeters.com/cgi-bin/webshop.cgi?config=ent-home)
Hello Stretch,
I have been reading all of the post to do with the Girly charging system problems with great interest. A wealth of knowledge. Does Triumph know about you guys??? Thanks for sharing. Great stuff.
I am in the midst of doing the RR switch to a newer MOSFET type as well the harness bypass. After reading your comments about using the 500wt RR( just bought it), I am rethinking and considering a 350wt. Not sure yet. It was a pain to get one off ebay up here and it took 2 weeks. As you said if one keeps in mind the load on the bike you should have no problems. Right?
After taking the connector of of a Elecrtosport RR I made it fit to the existing Stator Plug. NOW I have to change that because of your post on burnt spade connectors. Thanks! javascript:emoticon(':lol:') It was such a nice job I did too.
The question I have is where did and how did you install your Datelmeter. I have one and am not sure of where the best place to connect the +lead on the switched side.
I had considered a ChargeGuard but thought the Datel was as good and it was availabel up here.
Thanks in Advance
GBC
Howdy!
I've already experienced all the trials and tribulations with swapping and experimenting with various parts and pieces I've described here. I feel your pain.
I've clipped the connectors off of brand-new electrical parts, knowing I've voided the warranties by doing so. But when the connectors build up so much heat so as to cause the connector to fail, sod the bloody warranties. I'd rather my bike work.
You won't have any trouble with running a 500-watt R/R as long as you keep your electrical load below the 350 watts that the Stator can supply. If you go over 350, you're overloading the Stator, and she'll cook.
I installed my voltmeter on a shelf I built for the dash, but it can be installed in the dash near the heated grips switch. The Datel meter comes with a spring-steel bezel for in-dash installations.
Quote from: "Stretch"Howdy!
I've already experienced all the trials and tribulations with swapping and experimenting with various parts and pieces I've described here. I feel your pain.
I've clipped the connectors off of brand-new electrical parts, knowing I've voided the warranties by doing so. But when the connectors build up so much heat so as to cause the connector to fail, sod the bloody warranties. I'd rather my bike work.
You won't have any trouble with running a 500-watt R/R as long as you keep your electrical load below the 350 watts that the Stator can supply. If you go over 350, you're overloading the Stator, and she'll cook.
I installed my voltmeter on a shelf I built for the dash, but it can be installed in the dash near the heated grips switch. The Datel meter comes with a spring-steel bezel for in-dash installations.
Hi Stretch,
Thanks for the reply but I guess I wasn'r very clear on my question as to where I can attach the meter in the wiring harness. I plan to install in the dash as you suggest but I am not sure where is best to power it from. Any suggestions much appreciated.
As for the 500wt RR, I only ever run a heated vest and only on the coldest days up here. There may be a set of acc. lights in the future but that is about it. From all the posts regarding loads on the tiger, I think I'm in the clear.
I am going to cut the plug from the stator(':cry:') and connect the wires to the RR with a Posi Connectors. http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Elec_ ... -info.html (http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Elec__Products/Posi-Lock/Posi-Info/posi-info.html) I have had real sucess with these connectors in the past.
Thanks again Stretch.
Cheers
GBC
Best place to measure battery voltsis... at the battery, anywhere else is not giving you accurate numbers. But you'd want to have the meter fed fused and switched.
On alternator output... the 420watt rating would be max o/p. Which you'll only really get when the engine revs are up probably over 3k rpm and things are cool. Because as has been said before, this is not what you will get when things warm up and the efficiency decreases. I'd think you'll be lucky to see 350 then, so it will be interesting to see the figures from mrazekan
Soo.... start with the wiring mod to get as much of that power as efficiently as you can into the storage jar, and keep an eye on it all with a voltmeter
Here's a thread on voltmeters. I have a reply in there somewhere on how I wired mine in... http://tigertriple.com/forum/index.php/topic,5356 (http://tigertriple.com/forum/index.php/topic,5356)