My front brake pads have 0.5-1 millimeter left on the grooves, so I am looking into my alternatives. It's the first time I change brake pads, ever, so bare with me.
Waiting for a quote from a mechanic, my guess is total £100 total, original parts.
The service manual makes it look like something I can do myself - that would be satisfying!
Sweden e-shops: one has EBC HH, total £55 excl postage. Another shop had original parts, total £71 excl postage.
UK e-shops:
"Square Deals" has EBC HH at total £50 incl postage. They also had some options, such as Kyoto Standard, EBC Organic, and "Gold-Fren" (HH quality like the EBC, but at better price).
"Demon Tweeks" has EBC HH at total £49 incl postage. (They actually are noticeably cheaper than square deals, but postage eats up the savings).
Worldoftriumph.com original parts £83 incl postage.
Some random Ebay auction (seller in the UK) total £42 incl postage. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151430863829
Any risk that Ebay pads are pirate?
How are Gold-Fren compared to EBC HH?
Will EBC HH feel very abrupt, or there's still excellent control?
Any thoughts from the brilliant Girly-panel? :bowdown
Have used all of those pads myself over the years and not really noticed any major differences. All seem to wear about the same.
I think I have Gold-Fren on at the moment.
Not aware of ebay pirate copies. I usually shop around on Ebay for the best price when I need pads and get the best value at the time, never had any problems.
Thank you, that sounds comforting.
Mechanic price: Pads 2x £35 and work £23. Total £93. Close to my guess. It would be "Carbone Lorraine".
Carbon Loraine is a good make so you're safe there.
I've always used EBC HH on my Blackbird and when I changed my Tiger OEM discs for EBCs I used EBC HH as well. I'm not sure that was the best decision as they've always felt hard, almost glazed right from new. They stop the bike ok, but don't have the same feel as they do on the Blackbird.
Consequently I bought their new "V" pads which are semi-sintered. I've only just fitted them but will let you knowhow they get on.
Interesting, yeah I wouldn't want some robot ON/OFF feeling to the brakes. I love the 100% control I currently have with the current pads (whatever they are...)
On Ebay I now find Gold-fren HH for total £31. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sintered-Goldfren-Brake-Pad-For-Triumph-Tiger-955i-EFI-T709EN-Front-LH-2001-2006-/111367662878?hash=item19ee07ad1e
Used them before I used the EBCs, front and back, as good as anything else. Like Sin says, it's hard to tell one from another. Don't be put off by my EBC experience, it could be a number of things, such as not bedding them in properly, bedding them in too gently, Tiger doesn't brake hard enough to need sintered pads (leaving out Chris and Howie here, we're talking about the large majority), me just being too slow. It could be any one of them.
Thank you.
Is it likely that my mechanic cleaned and lubricated the brakes inside during the yearly service in April this year? (I was watching a video on Youtube by "Delboy" who shows how to do it on a Girly).
According to the service manual, you do not take the caliper off to change pads.
(EDIT: I ordered the Goldfren from that Ebay shop, so now I more or less HAVE to do it myself... whoohoo! The satisfaction... if it works! :) And £31 instead of £93 is a huge difference.)
you can do them on the bike if it goes smoothly, but a couple of tips:
If you don't have a screwdriver that fits exactly the cap on the pad retaining pin, buy one. They round off if you don't and are then a bugger to get out.
Use a good quality allen key to remove the pin. Even though I use copper grease every time I have mine apart, they are still stubborn.
If the retaining clips fall out it'll be hard to figure out how to refit them while the caliper is on the bike, but not impossible.
If you do need to remove the caliper you don't have to break open the brake lines as you can work next to the wheel (was just doing it this afternoon). Have some threadlock ready for the caliper mounting bolts in case you have to remove them.
Good luck and give us a shout if you need anything :thumbsup
Quote from: Bixxer Bob on August 24, 2015, 11:27:46 PM
you can do them on the bike if it goes smoothly, but a couple of tips:
If you don't have a screwdriver that fits exactly the cap on the pad retaining pin, buy one. They round off if you don't and are then a bugger to get out.
Use a good quality allen key to remove the pin. Even though I use copper grease every time I have mine apart, they are still stubborn.
If the retaining clips fall out it'll be hard to figure out how to refit them while the caliper is on the bike, but not impossible.
If you do need to remove the caliper you don't have to break open the brake lines as you can work next to the wheel (was just doing it this afternoon). Have some threadlock ready for the caliper mounting bolts in case you have to remove them.
Good luck and give us a shout if you need anything :thumbsup
Hey BB !! remember that this is a guy the said " Drilling out rivets is a bit over my head, I'm afraid"
sorry ChillMan but if ya cant operate a drill you should let yer mechanic do yer brakes to be on the safe side :thumbsup but watch him do it to see whats involved in a brake overhaul :thumbsup
take care
KK
Thanks for the tips! It will take 1-3 weeks to get the pads.
The grub screw is supposed to be 3Nm but maybe it gets corroded/stuck over the years between removals.
Quote from: ChillMan on August 25, 2015, 01:36:36 AM
Thanks for the tips! It will take 1-3 weeks to get the pads.
The grub screw is supposed to be 3Nm but maybe it gets corroded/stuck over the years between removals.
:nod :nod :nod
Quote from: KuzzinKenny on August 25, 2015, 12:12:42 AM
Hey BB !! remember that this is a guy the said " Drilling out rivets is a bit over my head, I'm afraid"
KK
good point Kenny :thumbsup
Where doing a pad change in situ is an option, I'd not recommend it until you have a bit more hands on experience.
This is nothing personal. When you renew pads you have to push the pistons back into the calipers. Three things to watch out for:-
1) Clean around the pistons with degreaser or brake cleaner, personally I don't like WD40 for this job. Use an old tooth brush and a thin strip of cloth wrapped around the piston to remove the residues. This reduces the chance of pushing crap into the seals.
2) When pushing the pistons back careful that when pushing on one only the other doesn't pop out,is easier to do than you might think. Push both at the same time or restrain one.
3) As the pistons go back you will be pushing fluid back into the reservoir, if the fluid has been topped up since the last pad change it's possible to overflow the reservoir, keep an eye on the level.
When you've done it with the calipers held in your hands, you'll feel more confident about doing it where is not so easy to see what you're doing. The money saved can be put to good effect collecting some good quality tips to make the job easier and all those little bits and pieces you always find in a mechanics tool box that you can't buy.
If the brake fluid hasn't been changed for more than a year, I would strongly recommend you do this at the same time.
Plenty of good advice on how to do that if you have a look at the how to sections.
:iagree
Certainly with all the advice from Sin.
As an add, after cleaning the pistons and surrounding area a small amount of ACF50 will stop the pistons from seizing in the calipers. It will also prevent rust forming on the pistons. After a few years testing in all weathers it works very well.
The rear caliper is prone to stiffening up in the slides. To eliminate this the small rubber seals on the housing pins needs to be removed and the caliper body cleaned of all corrosion as this increases the pressure on the pins and prevents the caliper sliding to take up wear and causes a binding rear brake. Re-assemble all sliding parts with ACF50 after a thorough clean.
Have also used ACF50 on the pad pins on the front calipers to great affect as copper grease will tend to cause galvanic corrosion due to dissimilar metals used.
Those grub screws are #¤$% stuck!
While waiting for the pads, I today tried opening the grub screws using the biggest best screwdriver I have. It fits very well. BUT... all it resulted in was slight damage to the head and not one degree turned. I tried both front calipers.
Why make it so shallow knowing they will get very stuck with corrosion? Why not a hex or torx head? Now that would make sense! :)
A collegue adviced to spray some 5-56 on the grub screw and let it sit for a day or two before trying. 5-56 is very famous here, it's a type of "penetrating oil" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penetrating_oil
I hesitate because it's close to the brakes.
Never saw, or heard of, ACF50. Possibly it's similar?
I understand now that new thicker pads will cause the caliper pistons to push the brake fluid back, and that a too full reservoir might overflow when doing so.
Reading all your nice advice here points me in the direction that maybe this is a lot more involved than I thought. I am sure the £23 for the work of the mechanic will increase if I bring my own ebay-pads though. :)
BTW, a previous owner has put an unknown front brake fluid. My mechanic at the yearly service in April this year said that it "tasted" (?!) like a silicon based fluid and he never saw that before (?!) but thought it was one that didn't really need changing. (He did change the rear one, a standard fluid.)
Can't advise on the brake fluid, but the grub screws respond well to a tap with an impact screwdriver if they're stuck.
See??? You're already getting into special tools; it comes with the territory... :icon_mrgreen:
5-56 is good stuff, American made if I remember correctly, don't worry you will have to degrease everything before refitting anyway. You can also warm around the screws gently with a hair dryer and tapping the screw driver as BB says. ACF 50 is mainly used for corrosion protection so will take much longer to release the screws.
It sounds as if a PO has used DOT 5 synthetic fluid. Although it has a higher boiling point (it has a lot of other special properties) and doesn't degrade as quickly as DOT 4 it also doesn't absorb water which can allow water collecting in low parts of the system, i.e. in the caliper cylinders. DO NOT top the system up with anything else if you're not sure.
In this case my advice would be to completely dismantle the calipers, I know this sounds extreme and will cost more but there are good reasons, 1) DOT 5 (if that's what it is) doesn't play well with other fluids and can be degraded in performance, 2) adding DOT 4 can accelerate any localised corrosion over time, in short if there is not 100% certainty on what is in the system, this is the route to take. Take the calipers off, remove the pistons to clean out and check for localised corrosion. Completely flush the system with brake cleaner or alcohol and dry it out as best you can, blow through with Nitrogen in a perfect world or dry air at least before rebuilding. My personal preference would be to refill with DOT 4 rather than try to reuse DOT 5 synthetic or DOT 5 organic (yes I know it's confusing) that will just complicate things further, there are all sorts of issues which are not relevant in this thread.
Sorry to sound like a dour Scotsman (even though I am) but I feel it's important for your safety and peace of mind.
Impact driver sounds fun. They have them at the local tools shop, £10.
Yes it sounds like DOT 5 as you describe it. I'll see next spring what the mechanic says on the service. I am considering investing £600 on a 20,000 km service. It hasn't been done in ages on my bike, I'm sure, since the two previous owners seemed to do all "service" themselves... and perhaps doing only the obvious ones like oil etc - and what they did maybe was a bit random and amateurish, such as putting DOT 5 front (despite the advice of the manual) - but not rear.
Hang on, which type of impact driver do you mean?
The one with motor?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Dewalt-DCF886-20V-Max-Brushless-Cordless-Battery-1-4-Impact-Driver-20-Volt-/271521071278?hash=item3f37eac0ae
Or the one you hit with a hammer?
http://www.biltema.se/sv/Bil---MC/Verktyg-och-Verkstadsutrustning/Avdragare/Slagmejsel-2000032610/
The one you hit with a hammer
Thanks. Do I need to buy a (small) sledge hammer to go with it as well? Or a regular metal hammer is just as fine?
I notice in one Delboy video that he opens the grub screw by tapping on a regular screwdriver with a hammer. Worth a shot I think?
Digging into my old storage I didn't find any 5-56, but I did find WD40. Probably 10 years old can... I immediately put it to use in my home. Front door hinges, some window mechanism etc. Super product! Just sprayed outside on hinge, wiped off the excess and instantly perfectly smooth handling.
More on topic, WD40 and 5-56 are almost identical, but differ on one point, 5-56 evaporates 100% but WD40 leaves a little lubrication. Is this corrrect?
Is WD40 as suitable for opening the grub screw as 5-56?
Nope, hitting the screwdriver with a hammer didn't help at all.
WD-40 will dry out completely but takes a bit longer and will leave a very slight dry residue.
Cool. Turns out a friend has an impact driver and is willing to help me coming weekend, assuming I have received the pads by then.
He says it takes 10 minutes if I didn't mess up the screws. (I didn't... yet!)
I have ordered the Haynes manual on Ebay. :icon_study:
there is a download pdf of factory service manual somewhere on here
You will mess up the screws they're made of cheese, mine came out with a hammer and punch
I have the service manual PDF. I hear Haynes is good stuff.
Cheese huh? Maybe I can put an olive on top then? ;)
Today I got help from a friend who has many tools, and a garage indoors, with heat and light and paper and all that. (My parking spot is outside, in the shadows... and rain today. Not ideal.)
The grub screws could be removed with an impact screwdriver, just like you said. But then... the right brake pad pin came off only after MUCH force. The left one did not, we messed up its head. We could drill it out, but would need a new replacement pin anyway.
In the end I still have to let the Triumph workshop drill it out and replace it. Maybe I can just ask them to replace pads to my Ebay ones, and then they will simply charge extra for the new pin.
:new_popcornsmiley
I'm glad you enjoy the thread, motoOzarks. :)
1 Organic pads last longer and aren't as hard on the disks, but tend to be grabby when cold. Which means that at speed if you urgently grab a handful of breaks in emergency, it is slightly more likely to lock the front... Dont ask how I know.
2 that freakin screw is a nightmare! Why the heck didn't they just use a runber stopper? I had to use a torch, seafoam and a hammer and chisel to get it out!
3 apart from the darned screw, it actually an easy job. Much easier to take the callipers off totally and clean things.
Workshop will drill the pin away, charging per hour. Since they remove the pads to do that, they will change to my new ones anyway.
I will also change the front tyre while I have it there.
Today the workshop drilled the pin away. He expected it to get out as is common, and then he could just fit a new pin. BUT, the pin had completely "melted" into the metal of the caliper. To avoid replacing the caliper, he made new threads in the caliper instead. Then fit a new pin there. Extra extra extra work.
Since he took the caliper completely off when drilling, he also had to drain the brake fluid, and he replaced it with standard DOT4 fluid. Good to know it's now correct, and there will be no cost for this next year.
He didn't have any comment about the Ebay brake pads. They were soft at first but already are getting a firm grip.
At some point I need to replace the discs as well...
Perhaps it's not so good economy to have an older bike after all. :)
There's always a risk involved but you'll be a lot more confident riding and not just with the hard wear, the knowledge gained is a big factor also.
I did learn something from trying to do the work. I can probably change brake pads myself next time, having less bad luck with stuck pins. :)
The new pads are fine, not the on/off I expected from "sintered HH".
The brand new front tyre Anakee 3 seems to give me a more smooth ride, less vibration, it "knows" better what turn I want, and also easier to drive fast. Less vibration at high speed. The old one was (unevenly worn) Dunlop TR91. I still have TR91 on the back, it has at least one more season to go. Then I'll have Anakee 3 there too.