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Tiger Time => Steamers (1993-1998 Tigers) => Topic started by: Danwarb on October 15, 2015, 10:50:31 PM

Title: Seized brake reservoir screws. Insights please ?
Post by: Danwarb on October 15, 2015, 10:50:31 PM
Hi Guys,

I often secretly log on and get all the information I can dream of to solve my 98 Triumph Tiger problems but this ones got me stuck.  :icon_scratch:

All 4 of my brake reservoir screws have ceased. They seem to be made of a very soft steel and one of the cross head screws has twisted out of shape with force behind a phillips screw driver bit.

I've sprayed the top of each reservoir with plenty of WD40 then wrapped them in plastic bags to see if tomorrow that'll make initiating turning the screws possible. One I'll need to drill out for sure, maybe all of them !

Do any of you guys know what size these screws are so that I once I some remove them I can replace them?

Any other insights or tippy tricks welcome please?

Cheers,

Dan
Title: Re: Ceased brake reservoir screws. Insights please SUPER STAR TRIPLE HEADS ?
Post by: ram33 on October 15, 2015, 10:58:03 PM
mine were the same. impact driver got 3 out but had to drill head off 4th one then used molegrips to get the thread out when res top was off. cant remember the thread size, think it was 4 or 5 mm. i ran a tap down to clean them up
Title: Re: Ceased brake reservoir screws. Insights please SUPER STAR TRIPLE HEADS ?
Post by: Sin_Tiger on October 15, 2015, 11:50:00 PM
M5 x 16 CSK will do it. My preference is for stainless socket head, pennies these days even for A4 grade. Change them all with a little copper grease, don't overtighten them, they don't need it.

Warm up the housing gentlly with a hirdryer or hot air gun, then tap the screw driver while keeping downward and roating pressure, use an impact driver if you have one but be judcious with the hammer.

If the screws are seized like that, chances are the fluids haven't been changed for a long time, there's your winter job  :nod

"Seized"  :icon_study:
Title: Re: Ceased brake reservoir screws. Insights please SUPER STAR TRIPLE HEADS ?
Post by: ssevy on October 16, 2015, 03:16:58 AM
I had this issue on my Legend. The screws are not Philips, but JIS, and so they often get stripped heads. JIS drivers will work in a Philips screwhead, but not the other way around without damaging the screw.
I bought a set of three Vessel JIS screwdrivers, and they are very high quality.
To remove my buggered screws I used a left handed drill bit and slowly drilled/unscrewed the stripped screw. Once I got the head off, I just lifted off the cover and unscrewed the stub which was sticking up with my fingers. In my case the corrosion was all on the shoulder of the screwhead, and the threaded portion turned just fine. A bit of neverseize on the new factory screwhead shoulders and problem solved.
I will also mention a trick for any stuck screws where the screwheads might be partially stripped. Use some drilling/lapping compound on a screwdriver bit, which you tap firmly into the screwhead with a hammer. Then attach the handle to the bit and turn it. The compound will fill the gaps and provide additional friction, while driving the bit with the hammer will provide additional surface area contact and increase your purchase.
Title: Re: Ceased brake reservoir screws. Insights please SUPER STAR TRIPLE HEADS ?
Post by: Danwarb on October 16, 2015, 10:41:35 AM
Thanks for all your replies guys. I always learn so much from you all.

Hi Ssevy, a drill bit big enough to nip the heads off each but small enough to do the job what side drill bit do you suggest?

Cheers,

Dan

Title: Re: Seized brake reservoir screws. Insights please SUPER STAR TRIPLE HEADS ?
Post by: ssevy on October 16, 2015, 01:41:27 PM
I just eyeballed the size of the diameter of the X in the head and tried to match it. One of my screws broke free before drilling all the way through, but the others did not. Just go slowly to avoid damaging the cover.
I change my brake and clutch fluid every season, so the new screws never have a chance to seize up again (or "cease to turn"😉)
Title: Re: Seized brake reservoir screws. Insights please SUPER STAR TRIPLE HEADS ?
Post by: JayDub on October 16, 2015, 02:25:38 PM
And one more... if the heads are already chewed up, drill a 2mm hole just 1mm deep and about 3mm in from the edge of the screw, then tap gently using a center punch in the hole to back it out - works every time.
Title: Re: Seized brake reservoir screws. Insights please SUPER STAR TRIPLE HEADS ?
Post by: BruKen on October 19, 2015, 01:22:50 PM
Quote from: JayDub on October 16, 2015, 02:25:38 PM
And one more... if the heads are already chewed up, drill a 2mm hole just 1mm deep and about 3mm in from the edge of the screw, then tap gently using a center punch in the hole to back it out - works every time.

Not the most elegant technique but as said.... works everytime, but more importantly, least chance of damage. Left hand drill bits and drills etc. Perfect engineering methodology if you have jigs and pillar drills etc. ...but...One itty bitty mistake and its an bin job. take the KISS approach on this one.
Title: Re: Seized brake reservoir screws. Insights please SUPER STAR TRIPLE HEADS ?
Post by: Danwarb on October 22, 2015, 09:18:43 PM
Hi guys,

Brilliant tips.

After all the 'tap on screwdriver handle end while trying to turn the screw out' got both out on my right hand reservoir so this was great as that was the reservoir I had to bleed a to fit new brake pads. The breaking is amazing again. I'm surprised how so ! I've now replaced the screws for high grade allen heads. Happy days.

On the left hand reservoir both screws have completely seized. I'll try the trick of drilling a little hole to one side of centre of each head and see if I can begin the screw reversing out by tapping sideways on it with a hole punch head as you say.

If this doesn't work I'll order a left hand drill bit as they didn't have one locally to me. What size diameter would you guys suggest?

:ear
Title: Re: Seized brake reservoir screws. Insights please SUPER STAR TRIPLE HEADS ?
Post by: Mustang on October 22, 2015, 09:30:37 PM
5mm
Title: Re: Seized brake reservoir screws. Insights please SUPER STAR TRIPLE HEADS ?
Post by: ram33 on October 23, 2015, 02:23:08 PM
4mm if its a 5mm thread (and you can drill straight down centre) otherwise you will need to helicoil it afterwards
Title: Re: Seized brake reservoir screws. Insights please ?
Post by: Danwarb on November 11, 2015, 06:03:28 PM
Hi guys,

I after one of there as an M5?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HSS-Spiral-Point-Tap-Straight-Flute-Metric-Hand-Machine-Right-Thread-Drill-M3-M8-/371216753304?var=&hash=item566e3e2298:m:mu1G5tB6Iqqo5eScj0-CclA

Cheers guys.
Title: Re: Seized brake reservoir screws. Insights please ?
Post by: JayDub on November 11, 2015, 08:23:18 PM
Is it to remove the remains of a screw?

If so, that one you've linked is to cut a thread, you need an easy-out instead... http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=easy+out&LH_PrefLoc=1&_sop=12

Get the best you can, as at that size I find they break quite easily if you're not used to using one.
soak it in penetrating fluid and S-l-o-w-l-y & smoothly is the way...  :bad
Title: Re: Seized brake reservoir screws. Insights please ?
Post by: Danwarb on November 11, 2015, 09:23:04 PM
Quote from: JayDub on November 11, 2015, 08:23:18 PM
Is it to remove the remains of a screw?

If so, that one you've linked is to cut a thread, you need an easy-out instead... http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=easy+out&LH_PrefLoc=1&_sop=12

Get the best you can, as at that size I find they break quite easily if you're not used to using one.
soak it in penetrating fluid and S-l-o-w-l-y & smoothly is the way...  :bad

Hi Jay,

I didn't think I was after a drill bit like that. The ones you've given me the link to is very new to me.

So I'd initially drill a 5mm hole down the middle of the screw with a normal drill bit, then use one of these 'easy out' bits to reverse the screw out?
Title: Re: Seized brake reservoir screws. Insights please ?
Post by: JayDub on November 11, 2015, 10:51:18 PM
Yes. Pretty much so... You can also use them in  the head of the screw where it chewed up - without drillling.
Title: Re: Seized brake reservoir screws. Insights please ?
Post by: BruKen on November 12, 2015, 10:28:47 AM
easyout? aye aye aye, break one off and it's a bin job. Easyout's are not for siezed bolts. Tbh, I don't know what they're for. They're satan's spawn for sure. They invariably break off leaving you kicking your heels. Don't be tempted. Sorry Dan.
Title: Re: Seized brake reservoir screws. Insights please ?
Post by: Bixxer Bob on November 12, 2015, 12:17:42 PM
 :iagree

In all my years of engineering the only time I've had success with an easyout was if the bolt head sheared off through being overtightened. Never once did they work when trying to remove something siezed without a lot of heat.   Ask yourself:  if the bolt / screw / stud is so badly seized that the head snaps off or rounds out, is a smaller piece of metal going to fare any better????

I've had to remove three seized engine studs recently and they all needed drilling out.  Although, just going off a t a tangent for a moment, I saw a video recently of a guy building up metal on the broken stud using a TIG welder until there was enough to weld a nut on.  Then it came out with a spanner.

Anyway to get back to your problem, when it happened to me, I took a 4mm drill, drilled carefully into the cross until the head came off.  Then removed the reservoir cover and then removed the remains with a pair of mole grips.  5 minutes to sort at the most.
Title: Re: Seized brake reservoir screws. Insights please ?
Post by: JayDub on November 12, 2015, 12:49:41 PM
Quote from: Bixxer Bob on November 12, 2015, 12:17:42 PMI took a 4mm drill, drilled carefully into the cross until the head came off.  Then removed the reservoir cover and then removed the remains with a pair of mole grips
:iagree with Bob - Thats the best option, but don't drill any deeper than necessary or the rest of the screw will collapse when you get the mole grips on it... put some masking tape on top of the mating face to help protect it too.
Title: Re: Seized brake reservoir screws. Insights please ?
Post by: ram33 on November 12, 2015, 10:11:19 PM
Quote from: Danwarb on November 11, 2015, 09:23:04 PM
Hi Jay,

I didn't think I was after a drill bit like that. The ones you've given me the link to is very new to me.

So I'd initially drill a 5mm hole down the middle of the screw with a normal drill bit, then use one of these 'easy out' bits to reverse the screw out?
dont drill 5mm hole in a 5mm screw or you will have no thread left. use 4mm if you think you can hit the center, otherwise try 3mm first. if you mess it all up you can always helicoil it
Title: Re: Seized brake reservoir screws. Insights please SUPER STAR TRIPLE HEADS ?
Post by: Danwarb on November 15, 2015, 11:42:40 PM
Quote from: JayDub on October 16, 2015, 02:25:38 PM
And one more... if the heads are already chewed up, drill a 2mm hole just 1mm deep and about 3mm in from the edge of the screw, then tap gently using a center punch in the hole to back it out - works every time.

AH JAY !!!

This was AMAZING !! I got both chewed up screws out ! It's so good I bet I could get 10 of 10 screws back out with this trick !!

Brilliant !!

Title: Re: Seized brake reservoir screws. Insights please ?
Post by: threepot on November 15, 2015, 11:52:19 PM
Thats some precision drilling there guy's! :icon_wink: And with a hand drill :notworthy
Title: Re: Seized brake reservoir screws. Insights please ?
Post by: nickjtc on November 16, 2015, 05:57:56 AM
Quote from: threepot on November 15, 2015, 11:52:19 PM
Thats some precision drilling there guy's! :icon_wink: And with a hand drill :notworthy

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