Did one of Clive Woods' T3 courses yesterday; great day out, great value for money and met some top T3 owners, mainly of the early Speed Triple variety.
The main benefits?? Totally demistifies valve clearance, head removal, liner reseating, gear selector fork replacement and sprag change. All easily done in a day once the engine is clean and on the bench.
Clive emphasised the importance of good quality, good fitting tools to avoid rounding fastners (goes without saying, but to be fair, most will have been grollied by previous owners anyway).
I was astounded at how many parts are interechangeable with almost all other models and how a lot of stuff you read about was debunked.
Interestingly, Clive had never come across the soft valve seat issue experienced by a few owners; but did say that he has had a lot of valves go soft thus giving the same result ie not being able to get the clearance to stay set for more than a few miles.
He is a staunch advocate of genuine oem (but not necessarly Triumph) parts for gaskets, seals, filters etc because pattern parts do not always resolve whatever issue you are chasing and, if you are investing the time and energy to strip an engine, why scrimp on a few quid that might mean having to do it again???
All in all, well worth the few quid it cost and would thoroughly recommend it.
Good review, thinking about doing it next year.
Was it held at Sutton Bridge?
(I haven`t forgot the engine case)
How did you get in touch with him to book a place?, I cant work out if its run as a separate venture than the shop he runs.
I'd like to attend one too. Phil,he has his own website. Bob,can you elaborate more on the valve issue? I have that problem with my Super3. Had 3inlets with negative clearance last time I checked. I did phone Clive,and he mentioned fuel softening the valves? All the exhausts were OK,as he predicted.
I told him it had been suggested that a few early heads had soft valve seats. He didn't say it was :Topes just that he'd never heard of it whereas he said that once the valves need shims less than 255s the valve's ground face (on the valve itself) has gone soft and so the valve needs replacing. He said that's why it's easy to get hold of 255s, 260s, 265s, but the thinner ones are harder to come by.
He also said bite the bullet and buy genuine Triumph ones.
What a great idea applied to just about any motor so long as you find someone to do it.
Quote from: rf9rider on November 23, 2015, 03:29:12 AM
(I haven`t forgot the engine case)
but what about the speedo cable :icon_lol:
Quote from: rybes on November 26, 2015, 09:26:01 PM
but what about the speedo cable :icon_lol:
Oh f**k, :icon_eek: what speedo cable??????
There is a random cable hanging up in my garage but I don't think it's speedo :^_^
Quote from: rf9rider on November 23, 2015, 03:29:12 AM
Good review, thinking about doing it next year.
Was it held at Sutton Bridge?
Swineshead just a bit further west along the A17...
if any of you 'do' facebook he has a page on there... his next course is for the 675 bikes, he normally runs courses during the winter before things get busy..
Quote from: Bixxer Bob on November 27, 2015, 12:11:57 AM
Oh f**k, :icon_eek: what speedo cable??????
There is a random cable hanging up in my garage but I don't think it's speedo :^_^
not you mate. the recipient of the engine case. hello RF :wave
Quote from: rybes on November 28, 2015, 10:23:44 AM
not you mate. the recipient of the engine case. hello RF :wave
Sorry Rybes, completely forgot, message me your address again and i`ll post it first thing Monday along with the other things you wanted. :thumbsup
Quote from: rf9rider on November 29, 2015, 02:58:46 AM
Sorry Rybes, completely forgot, message me your address again and i`ll post it first thing Monday along with the other things you wanted. :thumbsup
didnt forget about the engine case tho did ya :wave :icon_lol:
Quote from: Bixxer Bob on November 22, 2015, 09:35:52 PM
Did one of Clive Woods' T3 courses yesterday; great day out, great value for money and met some top T3 owners, mainly of the early Speed Triple variety.
The main benefits?? Totally demistifies valve clearance, head removal, liner reseating, gear selector fork replacement and sprag change. All easily done in a day once the engine is clean and on the bench.
Clive emphasised the importance of good quality, good fitting tools to avoid rounding fastners (goes without saying, but to be fair, most will have been grollied by previous owners anyway).
I was astounded at how many parts are interechangeable with almost all other models and how a lot of stuff you read about was debunked.
Interestingly, Clive had never come across the soft valve seat issue experienced by a few owners; but did say that he has had a lot of valves go soft thus giving the same result ie not being able to get the clearance to stay set for more than a few miles.
He is a staunch advocate of genuine oem (but not necessarly Triumph) parts for gaskets, seals, filters etc because pattern parts do not always resolve whatever issue you are chasing and, if you are investing the time and energy to strip an engine, why scrimp on a few quid that might mean having to do it again???
All in all, well worth the few quid it cost and would thoroughly recommend it.
Sounds interesting and right up my alley so what exactly happens on this course, full tear down of an 885 triple ?
Any tips or tricks you would like to share as I plan on removing the cylinder head on my Steamer to address oil usage. I already have the Triumph gasket kit and have been studying the shop manual, seems straight forward so far the biggest difference being the cylinder liners vs a standard block.
Yup did a complete strip and rebuild. To be fair a lot of prep work had been done but it looked very straight forward. If you have a Triumph dealer manual and can read you'll be fine.
As for pointers, don't drain the oil till the end, that way the water won't sit on the metal bits.
Do use the drain screw front left side of the barrels to get rid of most of the coolant before you take it apart.
You WILL need to re-seat the liners.
Once the head is off it is possible to pull the liners without any special tools; Clive used two plastic screwdriver handles as levers (under the lip of each liner in turn using the adjacent liner as a fulcrum to prise them out).
After putting a bead of Blue Hylomar on each liner re-insert them but leave them proud 8mm or so until all three are in then push them all down at the same time thus ensuring the sealant doesn't get rubbed off or messed up.
No doubt others such as Mustang will have other tips.
Excellent info thanks.
Do you or anyone else know where to get piston rings ? Triumph in the US want $56.00 per set which is not the end of the world just curious if Wiseco, Hastings, Prok or any others make replacement rings ?
I plan on removing the head, pistons and liners have a machine shop check tolerances then repair or replace parts as necessary, I'm hoping the valves, valve seats and guides are in good condition and the head can be reassembled with new valve seals. If the pistons and liners are within spec I was going to do a hone and new rings while I'm that far into it. This is all a wonderful plan on paper but until it comes apart and everything is checked who knows what I'm in for.
I was planning on taking lots of pics if anyone is interested.
Again, Clive is of the opinion that these engines are good for upwards of 150k as long as they get rgular oil changes. The days of needing to replace rings and hone bores are long gone. In his experience they don't need any more than a slight scuffing of the bores if there's any glaze. You'll probably find the original hone marks are still visible, which is an indication of how little wear there is. Whilst I concur witht he idea that you should do everything that needs doing while you're in there, there';s no point in throwing money at it.
You say "oil usage"; how much and are you sure it's bores? (blue smoke on acceleration) Valve guides perhaps (blue smoke on overrun) or simply just a leak somewhere??? How many miles has it done??
I bought the bike March 2014 with 39,400 miles it now has 42,500 miles.
I did a 2500 mile oil change interval and the level went from the top mark to just below the bottom mark. There are no oil leaks the bike lives in the garage and does not mark it's spot. The only visible smoke is on the occasional cold start and overrun, nothing noticeable under power. The cold start has a slight haze to the exhaust this is not consistent though some days it's hazier than others. The overrun is the most noticeable after a down hill coast off throttle when you get on the throttle there is a not so nice puff of blue which is usually valve seals.
I don't have a problem with an engine using some oil I think in my case this is excessive and points to a problem I should fix. I don't like the puff of blue after a down hill run and I think this may be the reason for the oil usage.
Valve guides / seals :nod
Quote from: Sin_Tiger on December 01, 2015, 10:32:15 PM
Valve guides / seals :nod
I concur. Had that problem with an '85 Rabbit convertible I once had. On over-run there were no bugs left alive within a half mile radius because of all of the smoke. :icon_lol:
Quote from: nickjtc on December 02, 2015, 12:03:30 AM
I concur. Had that problem with an '85 Rabbit convertible I once had. On over-run there were no bugs left alive within a half mile radius because of all of the smoke. :icon_lol:
Must be an 80's thing as the Honda Civics of that vintage were famous for bad valve seals.
A while back,you could buy oil additives that replenished/rejuvenated oil seals,guides etc. Worth a look? :augie
I also agree. Valve seals are still a head off job though so you'll have a chance to look around inside to be sure nothing's amiss and the liners will have to be re-seated when you put it back together. Since you'll be going that far another Clive tip: replace the gudgeon pins and circlips. They are cheap and the only bits that wear significantly leading to what sounds like little end rattle.
Quote from: threepot on December 02, 2015, 09:19:26 AM
A while back,you could buy oil additives that replenished/rejuvenated oil seals,guides etc. Worth a look? :augie
Snake / Dragon oil mate. All these additives can do is remove some hydrocarbon deposits such as gum, not the harder stuff. If a seal is hard or cracked said additives can actually make things worse.
ive heard a little bit of brake fluid makes seals swell up a bit. never tried it meself so couldnt say either way.
Quote from: rybes on December 03, 2015, 08:46:46 PM
ive heard a little bit of brake fluid makes seals swell up a bit. never tried it meself so couldnt say either way.
Not a great idea mate, when seals go soft by using it, they will keep on softening as there is nothing to arrest the process. Brake fluid has a low flash point, adding that to your lubrication system is not really recommended.