Hi guys,
I've been having arguments with my Steamers chain tightening system with this 'allen key wind round' design.
I get the markings to be equal on each side of each swing arm before I tighten down the newly fitted allen head bolts to secure the chain in it's new taught position (a max play of 40mm).
How ever the chain keeps becoming loose again. Though I haven't checked the markings I can't believe it's these 'allen key wind round' sections that are spinning?
Could the chain really be stretching and slacking this much?
:icon_scratch:
are you adjusting chain with bike in neutral ? :BangHead It matters . you'll never get it right otherwise .
check your chain
530 chain has a 5/8ths pitch (.625 ) so 20 links = 12.5 inches
measure 20 links , record measurement
pick another random section of 20 links , measure and record
if your chain is good it will be the same measurement everywhere you check .
if you have different numbers than 12.5 inches in 20 links your chain is fucked
Stupid question: you are torqueing the pinch bolts up correctly..???
And DO NOT be tempted to over tighten the chain to compensate.... don't ask :icon_wink:
And DON'T over tighten the pinch bolts... the welds will crack. :nod
:iagree ....and replacing the swingarm is a pain in the ar5e.
:agree and can be expensive to find.
Quote from: nickjtc on May 09, 2016, 05:58:32 PM
Stupid question: you are torqueing the pinch bolts up correctly..???
And DO NOT be tempted to over tighten the chain to compensate.... don't ask :icon_wink:
All you guys and your one lines have cracked me up !!
:rofl
I probably am over tightening these pinch bolts in an attempt to stop them coming loose and the chain slacking again.
I think I'd better get a one of those wrenches where you set the torque max before using it to tighten.
Which brand or model would you suggest please guys?
:ear
Quote from: Mustang on May 09, 2016, 04:32:51 PM
are you adjusting chain with bike in neutral ? :BangHead It matters . you'll never get it right otherwise .
check your chain
530 chain has a 5/8ths pitch (.625 ) so 20 links = 12.5 inches
measure 20 links , record measurement
pick another random section of 20 links , measure and record
if your chain is good it will be the same measurement everywhere you check .
if you have different numbers than 12.5 inches in 20 links your chain is fucked
I have a 530 on my Girly... I just checked mine and got 12.5 inches. :thumbsup
First time I used 12.5 inches and "Girly" in same sentence. :icon_cry:
Anyone got a picture of swingarm with the cracked welds???
I'm thinking that off the bike and clamped on a mandrel to keep everything true they should be fixable...... :^_^
If you can find a welder who is certified to work on air frame alloys it can be done. I only know one but he's so busy doing jobs for Ryanair he has no time for anything else.
Needless to say in wary of flying with them but as he pointed out, "at least you know I welded the cracks up properly".
Why do you guys think I'm experiencing my chain to keep slackening after tightening?
Will checking the chain for it's length every 20 links answer this if there's varying lengths?
Dan,
Check the chain adjusters haven't been turned 180 deg in an attempt to lower the rear.
If they have, the wheel spindle will be to the top of the cam and the force of the drive chain is trying to turn the adjusters in a way that slackens the chain if the clamps aren't tight enough.
If they're in the correct position, spindle at the bottom, it's the opposite.
I had mine flipped to lower the rear, but was always conscious not to overtighten the clamps as they have been known to crack. Went out for a ride one day, gave it some beans and the drive force overcame the friction force quite significantly :bug_eye Had to crawl back home to find some tools to rectify a veeeeery slack chain.
Gav has a point, but what Mustang was getting at was that chains don't stretch uniformly. You'll have sections that are stretched and some that haven't. If you set it at a tight section, then later check it on a slack section, you'll get a noticable difference. If you've already wheeled the bike back and forth and checked the tension in several different places, you'll already know if that's the issue or whether you should be looking at the adjusters.
Quote from: Bixxer Bob on May 10, 2016, 01:24:30 PM
Gav has a point, but what Mustang was getting at was that chains don't stretch uniformly. You'll have sections that are stretched and some that haven't. If you set it at a tight section, then later check it on a slack section, you'll get a noticable difference. If you've already wheeled the bike back and forth and checked the tension in several different places, you'll already know if that's the issue or whether you should be looking at the adjusters.
GOT IT !
I get this now; that the chain will be slacker if the stretched part is directly between the sprockets. Also that the only way to check this is to measure the chain. Ok I'll do this then report back with photos . . .
Make sure the concentric adjusters and swingarm are clean. And spray a little WD40 on them,so they don't 'stick' when you turn them. I've noticed this helps.Surprising how much 'crud' finds it's way in!
Thanks Threepot, thanks guys . . .
Ok I can only measure a length of 10 links (maybe this is what you mean by 20) and I measure the length to be consistently 320mm from one far edge of one link to the far edge of each 10th I measured (12.59 inches).
I see from the rotary section that I've had to seriously wind it back to get the chain taught which in turn would have had me now lower the bike.
Is it case of asking my mechanic to remove one to two chain links?
What else might you suggest please guys?
In my experience chains hold good and true until a certain age and mileage and then turn to bubblegum. How old is yours?
Next, 40mm slack or what ever you quoted is a bodge. There is only one way to accurately tighten a chain and that is to compress the swing arm with a strap until it is 90 degree out. i.e. maximum extension. Then adjust so the chain has about an inch of play in one run (still quite tight) in the centre of it's length between the front and rear sprockets AT IT'S tightest point (rotate the back wheel in increments) with the bike in neutral. Make sure the chain runs true and straight by sighting along it's length using the front and rear sprockets as fore and aft sights before tightening up. Do not rely solely on the cam marks for this. Finally check front and rear wheel alignment to confirm. If any of these are out, you need to start troubleshooting why.
Erm, that chain looks like it has seen better days!! It might be coming to the end of its wear cycle. For future reference an automatic chain oiler, such as a Scottoiler, might be an idea....
Personally I hate Scottoilers for the mess they are liable to make unless you are forever fettling with the nuisance thing. If you want one you can have mine. A good X-ring chain kept clean doesn't need to be oiled, however the sprockets do or they will snatch and wear hooked. As a matter of habit at each fuel stop or 200 miles I squirt a bit of oil on the bottom wall of the rear sprocket which dams against the chain until moving off. That's all that's required for 12k of service. Too much oil leaches the grease out of the o-rings and attracts dirt.
Quote from: BruKen on May 10, 2016, 05:32:01 PM
Personally I hate Scottoilers for the mess they are liable to make unless you are forever fettling with the nuisance thing. If you want one you can have mine. A good X-ring chain kept clean doesn't need to be oiled, however the sprockets do or they will snatch and wear hooked. As a matter of habit at each fuel stop or 200 miles I squirt a bit of oil on the bottom wall of the rear sprocket which dams against the chain until moving off. That's all that's required for 12k of service. Too much oil leaches the grease out of the o-rings and attracts dirt.
Thanks Nick, Thanks Bru !
WOW ! What little maintenance this kind of chain requires !!! :bug_eye
I personally use a high quality dry chain lube and regularly give my chain a squirt but I love the idea of fitting a new chain because as you can see in the photos it is rather rusty !!!
I'll also check the sprockets for becoming 'hooked'. This makes sense to look out for but I reckon their fine as the bikes only done 11,000 miles !
As Nick says I reckon it's best I replace it.
Can you give me a link to the correct chain made by 'X-ring' that you think I'd need?
you need two sprockets and a chain
your new chain will be fucked up just like your old chain in a matter of a few hundred miles if you don't replace both sprockets
guaranteed that's an original sprocket and its screwed to match your lovely rusted original chain
it's time for new sprockets too .
How's those 20 year old michelin's treating ya ? ya might want to think about those also , are the brakes 20 years old too?
DID 530VX chain is what I use but am intrigued by the new super heavy duty DID's ZVM-X chain. I'm sure there are beter but these are more than adequate.
Note what Mustang has said. Always change chain and sprockets together as they wear in together. Expect a bit of a settling in period but not much before readjusting. Note longevity is related to maintenance and cleanliness. A dirty or rusty chain will limit the life of the o-rings so a regular clean with paraffin and a light oil is still required as for any chain. What I said above does not preclude maintenance. I just said it doesn't require oiling for it's lubrication as the pins are sheathed in grease behind the o-rings. Sprockets still need oiling, but no need to smother them
Quote from: Mustang on May 10, 2016, 06:42:00 PM
How's those 20 year old michelin's treating ya ? ya might want to think about those also , are the brakes 20 years old too?
:iagree
Squinting at that rear disc you're getting near it's wear limits. All these things may have a bit to do with how the bike is treating you, a bit more control and feedback and it might stay upright for longer, just sayin'
You my friend need to sit down with some lined paper and make a list, then do a bit of reading / searching on the forum before you go much further from home.
All said in a patronising fatherly tone. Miserable old git :ImaPoser Where's your youth then. Bet you rode around on some right bangers in your mod and rocker years avoiding the cops and stirring up shit. Don't deny, we've all been there
(http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t236/brucekennedy/1-1.jpg)
Quote from: BruKen on May 10, 2016, 09:18:24 PM
All said in a patronising fatherly tone. Miserable old git :ImaPoser Where's your youth then. Bet you rode around on some right bangers in your mod and rocker years avoiding the cops and stirring up :Topes. Don't deny, we've all been there
(http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t236/brucekennedy/1-1.jpg)
no way...............................bwahahahahaha ! :rfl
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/2uoykcuf/BIKE1.jpg)
I just noticed the position of the adjusters... either the chain is stretched, or it has too may links :icon_eek:
Sottoilers to some, are the spawn of the devil - but each to their own/personal choice etc.... the ONLY downside I have experienced with using them is the mess they make of the wheel and sprockets area, Once set up correctly and to deliver one drop per 60 seconds, this is minimised and personally I can live with a bit of oil which causes no harm, and even helps stop a steamer rim from rotting. No one can deny that they extend chain life significantly... especially if you keep forgetting to spray, or don't like carrying a can on a long run.
I wouldn't tell you to get one, and I wouldn't tell you not to either :icon_biggrin:
Now there is a lovely bit of old Brit iron. :>< Back in my day all you could get in SA was the UJM and some post-war BSA's. Sanctions see. Put the European stuff out of our price range as "yoofs" Mind you, those little XT's were nimble and many is the time I evaded a speed cop by riding over stairs on a pedestrian bridge / tunnel etc or simply just leaving the road. Something these days you simply couldn't get away with.
The MOT will sort the OP out, he's on the right track
Quote from: JayDub on May 10, 2016, 09:53:50 PM
I just noticed the position of the adjusters... either the chain is stretched, or it has too may links :icon_eek:
Sottoilers to some, are the spawn of the devil - but each to their own/personal choice etc.... the ONLY downside I have experienced with using them is the mess they make of the wheel and sprockets area, Once set up correctly and to deliver one drop per 60 seconds, this is minimised and personally I can live with a bit of oil which causes no harm, and even helps stop a steamer rim from rotting. No one can deny that they extend chain life significantly... especially if you keep forgetting to spray, or don't like carrying a can on a long run.
I wouldn't tell you to get one, and I wouldn't tell you not to either :icon_biggrin:
Absolutely. Mine is a personal choice. Absolutely, spawn of the devil, and at 1 drop per minute you are changing oil in the bloody thing every 200 miles or so anyway so where's the heartache? And Absolutely, they get oil on rims, tyres and everywhere else for that matter. Of course I like to detail my bike though and am rather particular in maintenance and keeping it clean. Once oil starts getting everywhere it's the thin end of the wedge imho. Turns to a thick goo with dirt and crud and soon the bike doesn't look show room any more. So you care less and things slip. Soon no matter how much you scrub it's simply too late because you cant get to it without dismantling the bike. My wife says I've OCD and laughs. But hey, every bike ride the kids get out their mits and scrub while I eye them out over a beer and fag.
(http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t236/brucekennedy/utf-8BSU1BRzAxNzcuanBn.jpg)
And when I say dismantle, I'm not kidding. Anybody remember this :rfl
(http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t236/brucekennedy/iTookThisOnMyPhone%20Private/IMG00413-20100327-1759.jpg)
(http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t236/brucekennedy/iTookThisOnMyPhone%20Private/IMG00412-20100327-1712.jpg)
Now don't give Dan a heart attack :bug_eye
Quote from: JayDub on May 10, 2016, 09:53:50 PM
Scottoilers to some, are the spawn of the devil - but each to their own/personal choice etc.... the ONLY downside I have experienced with using them is the mess they make of the wheel and sprockets area, Once set up correctly and to deliver one drop per 60 seconds, this is minimised and personally I can live with a bit of oil which causes no harm, and even helps stop a steamer rim from rotting. No one can deny that they extend chain life significantly... especially if you keep forgetting to spray, or don't like carrying a can on a long run.
I wouldn't tell you to get one, and I wouldn't tell you not to either :icon_biggrin:
:iagree, being a Scottoiler devotee.
I said I like em clean :^_^
Quote from: BruKen on May 10, 2016, 10:14:16 PM
My wife says I've OCD and laughs. But hey, every bike ride the kids get out their mits and scrub while I eye them out over a beer and fag.
Smart man. Kids have small hands and arms so they can reach the places us grown ups could never hope to reach. :thumbsup
Quote from: nickjtc on May 10, 2016, 11:37:30 PM
Smart man. Kids have small hands and arms so they can reach the places us grown ups could never hope to reach. :thumbsup
Like our wallets :icon_biggrin:
Quote from: Sin_Tiger on May 10, 2016, 10:52:53 PM
Now don't give Dan a heart attack :bug_eye
:rfl
I've had a right laugh reading all your posts guys.
I've changed all brake pads recently and see the discs them selves as adequate for now how ever I've really got to replace the brake fluid; it's something I still don't understand well enough how to do to be confident in gong for it.
The front tire I had replaced last year with an Anakee 2. I'm really pleased with it; the rear one . . . :m but the tread is ok.
BruKen the chain has definitely simply stretched as the adjusters where 90 degrees the right way from where they are with the same chain only 1 year ago !
Scott-oilers I'm not in to.
I like the sound of these chains that require a bit less maintenance.
Also I get it loud and clear, I'll replace the chain and sprockets at once but this'll need to wait a week or two till I get the funds.
Guys you've been such stars. I'm learning so much.
:notworthy
Quote from: nickjtc on May 10, 2016, 11:34:38 PM
:iagree, being a Scottoiler devotee.
All the luddites gonna crawl out now and tell ya about the good ol days before o-rings and steam engines were all the rage :augie Them days when stokers ran about with a oil can dispenser oiling bearings and whatnots on the fly. Dribble dribble . Got one in my garage too. Ubiquitous red. Makes a fekkin mess too ;)
:bad
Quote from: Danwarb on May 10, 2016, 11:43:23 PM
the rear one . . . :m but the tread is ok.
Figure out how old it is by looking for the date 'stamp' in the sidewall adjacent to the DOT letters. If it is over 5-7 years old, irrespective of how much tread is left, you might want to think about replacing it.
We're really good on this forum about helping others spend their hard earned cash! :icon_lol: :*&*
Quote from: nickjtc on May 10, 2016, 11:49:08 PM
Figure out how old it is by looking for the date 'stamp' in the sidewall adjacent to the DOT letters. If it is over 5-7 years old, irrespective of how much tread is left, you might want to think about replacing it.
We're really good on this forum about helping others spend their hard earned cash! :icon_lol: :*&*
:*&*
I can tell !
Ok I'll check and add it to the list !
:sign13
Hi guys,
I've found the rear sprocket here for £25:
http://www.triumphparts.gbr.cc/product.php/689553/
The engine sprocket for £15:
http://www.triumphparts.gbr.cc/product.php/5835966/
What number of teeth do you guys suggest I buy for the front sprocket and number of teeth for the rear sprocket?
Also are these sprockets with any motorcycle chain universal?
Cheers guys.
:ear
As I'm sure has already been suggested, buy a set off sprockets and chain (£100 - £140 depending on how bing you want it) and save yourself a few quid, don't forget a new tab washer at the same time.
As for number of teeth? We're you happy with the way it was before, then just count the teeth on the ones you have and order the same combo or we'll send BruKen round with a pack of Jeyes finest medium grit paper :mut
Quote from: Sin_Tiger on May 14, 2016, 01:17:48 PM
As I'm sure has already been suggested, buy a set off sprockets and chain (£100 - £140 depending on how bing you want it) and save yourself a few quid, don't forget a new tab washer at the same time.
As for number of teeth? We're you happy with the way it was before, then just count the teeth on the ones you have and order the same combo or we'll send BruKen round with a pack of Jeyes finest medium grit paper :mut
Thanks Sin !
So you mean go for a pack like this?
http://www.triumphparts.gbr.cc/product.php/6428493/
How would the bike bah differently? Would the results either be less torque but higher top speed or more torque and lower top speed?
Yes.
The engine won't produce any more or less but it will respond differently with respect to acceleration, cruising and top gear roll on. Most riders find the stock gearing works fine for them across the range of road conditions we normally encounter.
You will need a 36mm socket (preferably an impact variety) a solid breaker bar and probably a long bit of tube and a big mate to assist. You're going to lose some oil so be prepared to refill.
Quote from: Sin_Tiger on May 14, 2016, 01:46:43 PM
Yes.
The engine won't produce any more or less but it will respond differently with respect to acceleration, cruising and top gear roll on. Most riders find the stock hearing works fine for them across the range of road conditions we normally encounter.
You will need a 36mm socket (preferably an impact variety) a solid breaker bar and probably a long bit of tube and a big mate to assist. You're going to lose some oil so be prepared to refill.
Thanks Sin.
I'm not looking at doing this my self as I've got a recommended mechanic that says he can do it for £45 !
18 tooth front sprocket
48 tooth rear sprocket
116 links D.I.D. 530 x ring chain
this is a stock configuration for steamer ( the way it came from factory)
replace the rubbing strip and rub block also , you'll be sorry if you don't
Quote from: Mustang on May 14, 2016, 02:32:02 PM
18 tooth front sprocket
48 tooth rear sprocket
116 links D.I.D. 530 x ring chain
this is a stock configuration for steamer ( the way it came from factory)
replace the rubbing strip and rub block also , you'll be sorry if you don't
Thanks Mustang, your a star !
I'll fit an 'X-ring' chain as I've read they cause less resistance.
Being a tart I don't want a 'gold' chain and want a 'white metal' finish chain. Is there much less quality in one of this finish?
they rust easier with lack of maintenance
Quote from: Mustang on May 14, 2016, 02:57:52 PM
they rust easier with lack of maintenance
Got it !
Is there a chain thats finished in black as this one that would be less prone to rust and suit our Steamer Tiger:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Suzuki-GSX-R400-RL-RM-RN-GK76A-92-DID-VX-X-Ring-Drive-Chain-525-108-/391448124074?hash=item5b24205aaa:g:HlIAAOSw3mpXKOi0
They don't make chains that don't rust to the best of my knowledge, they do however make many varieties of chain oil and chain grease, it even comes in spray cans, some small enough to put in your pocket :icon_wink:
Quote from: Sin_Tiger on May 14, 2016, 08:54:10 PM
They don't make chains that don't rust to the best of my knowledge, they do however make many varieties of chain oil and chain grease, it even comes in spray cans, some small enough to put in your pocket :icon_wink:
Hi Sin,
Yes i totally agree. I've found it easy to use a dry chain lubricant and I'll continue to do so. On that note I'll get a white metal finish X ring chain by DID as they seem to well rated.
Quote from: Sin_Tiger on May 14, 2016, 01:17:48 PM
........... We're you happy with the way it was before, then just count the teeth on the ones you have and order the same combo or we'll send BruKen round with a pack of Jeyes finest medium grit paper :mut
I wouldn't :nono Don't you be volunteering my services :pottytrain2
Quote from: Danwarb on May 14, 2016, 01:50:16 PM
Thanks Sin.
I'm not looking at doing this my self as I've got a recommended mechanic that says he can do it for £45 !
Bite his hand off cos taking the nut off your front sprocket is going to take some serious muscle I'd imagine. When I got mine she had a wee bit of corrosion and I nearly got a hernia and burst my poop valve trying to undo it. I gave in and cut it off. Along with the tab washer you might want a new nut, just in case. It goes on pretty tight, ...scary tight for a meek stick man like myself
Electric impact wrench is the sweet tool which you need. Every tool box should have one. Mine's a 20-year old Black & Decker. Has really saved my pucker string when working on really tight nuts and bolts.