Hello,
Driving on the highway my bike suddenly turned of the engine. I suspect the oil. What kind of oil do I need to fill it with? Haven't memorized it yet :s
Thanks in advance!
the oil has nothing to do with the bike suddenly dying ..............
unless it's completely empty then it will sieze up and become a useless pc of $hit.
the only thing that kills it is no fuel or no spark
does it start back up after it sits ?
Then I am guessing no spark since the fuel is almost topped of and it died suddenly instead of shockingly when deprived of fuel.
Just waiting for the road mechanics now. Let's see what he finds.
1 euros worth, if it just died without so much as a splutter then suspect the igniter pick up. If it coughed and stuttered it's fuel starvation. Were you on main fuel tap position? Try running on reserve tap position.
Electrikery issue?, blown fuse, failure of sidestand circuit or kill switch. Ignition switch.
Hope its a simple one, they cough and splutter a lot it seems, but a sudden engine stop is unusual, imho.
Whats the latest?
It was a long night of waiting. In the end me and the bike got brought home by a tow truck...
I was running on main but had filled her up just 50km before so plenty of gas left. It also didn't stutter as when it is starved but just died without warning.
After waiting about 1-1.5 hours before the roadside mechanic showed up the bike started first push of the ignition button so besides checking if the battery was charging, he couldn't do much. He suggestes to take it for a drive with him following behind me. After about 500m we drive up to a traffic light, I shift down to second gear, let it roll a bit and accelerate when it turns green (not hitting a full stop) that's when the engine died again.
The mechanic mentioned that he saw quite a bit of black/blue smoke coming from the exhausts when I hit the throttle. We try different things and notice that when it its running idle and you open the choke it first comes down in revs instead of going up. If you slowly open the choke you can eventually get it to run on higher revs but no more then 3k.
It seems like there is something wrong with the fuel mixture but what it is and why this is happening without any chances is beyond me. The one thing that did change that day was that I adjusted the idle speed a bit. It was running on about 1500 and I turned it down to 1000 but that should only affect how it runs on idle and the carbs should take over when you drive.
Any suggestions on where to look? Good thing is that I have a holliday next week :)
Quote from: Aeschere on June 07, 2016, 07:36:03 AM
The mechanic mentioned that he saw quite a bit of black/blue smoke coming from the exhausts when I hit the throttle.
I am not being a smartass... is there any chance they sold you diesel fuel? :^_^
Regardless, I would siphon your tank and use that gas in your lawn mower.
Euro 95 and diesel are well seperated and since I filled it up myself I am sure it was Euro 95. They might have switched it in the main fuel supply though but I guess I have to watch the newspapers then since it lies right besides the highway and I shouldn't be the only one with wrong fuel.
Is there any way you can check if it is diesel?
Quote from: Aeschere on June 07, 2016, 08:12:02 AM
Is there any way you can check if it is diesel?
Pour out a small amount... if you can't light it with a match... it's diesel.
Please do not try this in a structure... and be very careful. :kboom
You should be able to smell diesel?? Easy to drain some fuel out to check? A friend filled his ER6 with it. Amazingly it still run,although like shit mind you! Depends how much petrol was in prior if you have?
Keep a sample and your fuel receipt just in case.
Time for the carbs off. :new_popcornsmiley
If you find it's not diesel in there, that's classic pick up coil symptoms.
Runs for a bit, gets hot, dies, cools down, runs for a bit, dies and so on and so on.
There are several suspects that I would like to check. I am hoping to get started with them this weekend and/or next week. If you can think of anything else, let me know.
- Clogged air filter. Drain the box and/or replace the filter
- Check tank and carb filters again. Replace internal tank filters with external fuel hose filter.
- Check wiring. Perhaps a loose/rusted connector is affected by heat, expanses and is loosing connection.
- Check cooling system, refill the fluid
- Check pick-up coil
Anything else I might be forgetting?
Black..blue smoke? :icon_scratch:
Quote from: Aeschere on June 07, 2016, 05:56:13 PM
There are several suspects that I would like to check. I am hoping to get started with them this weekend and/or next week. If you can think of anything else, let me know.
- Clogged air filter. Drain the box and/or replace the filter
- Check tank and carb filters again. Replace internal tank filters with external fuel hose filter.
- Check wiring. Perhaps a loose/rusted connector is affected by heat, expanses and is loosing connection.
- Check cooling system, refill the fluid
- Check pick-up coil
Anything else I might be forgetting?
yes , your list of things to check is ass backwards .......................start at the bottom , I bet you won't have to do any more checking , and BTW 99 times out of a 100 the little fucker will check out just fine cold at .6 ohms , so replacing it is the only way to know it went tits up.
Thanks for that :) will start at the bottom.
Perhaps one more thing, the engine won't start in Neutral with the stand down. Only when I hild down the clutch will it start. It will idle when the clutch is released though. Can't remember if that's the way it is supposed to work.
Does the neutral light show when it's cold? Not uncommon.
Quote from: Aeschere on June 07, 2016, 06:58:00 PM
Thanks for that :) will start at the bottom.
Perhaps one more thing, the engine won't start in Neutral with the stand down. Only when I hild down the clutch will it start. It will idle when the clutch is released though. Can't remember if that's the way it is supposed to work.
My bike will only start with clutch in. Think thats standard?
Quote from: threepot on June 07, 2016, 10:52:11 PM
My bike will only start with clutch in. Think thats standard?
it's not
bike should start clutch out in neutral sidestand down
and
when bike is running and you have in gear with clutch out (normal riding )and push the sidestand down motor should immediately die there is a huge hint there aeschere . a faulty intermittent side stand switch will kill the motor
instantlyand as sin says does the light come on for neutral ? because guess where the relay for the safety circuit gets its signal from . :nod
*edit* I cant remember if the trigger for the safety relay is the light or the kick stand switch , too lazy to look for wiring diagram */edit*but thats only for your issue of having to use clutch to start in neutral ,
the sidestand switch can and will kill it instantly sounds to me like you aeschere should be looking at that little switch on the kick stand . IIRC you can jump the wires to test .
*note if you leave the wires jumped it's on you ,literally with your first left turn if you forget the kick stand *note
if your problem goes away , well there ya go
fix that then look at the ignition pick up sender if it still has issues
:iagree Good point, I'd forgotten about that :icon_rolleyes:
I will get myself a multimeter later today to check the wiring. Sure hope that is what is causing this as it seems to be the cheapest and easiest solution.
What do you mean with the neutral light? It turns on fine when I put it in neutral but I haven't seen it light up while driving...or I just didn't pay enough attention to it.
your light is fine then check the switch , you dont need a meter just jump the wires
On the bright side, you should carry a spare pick up coil (technically called "the little fucker" 😆 ) with you anyways, so if you don't need it this time, you'll have it for the future.
Quote from: ssevy on June 09, 2016, 03:18:22 PM
On the bright side, you should carry a spare pick up coil (technically called "the little fucker" 😆 )....
You made I larf :rfl :rfl :rfl
It has been horrible weather lately so I didn't have much time to work on the bike.
It seems like it is a fuel problem after all. The circuits seem fine.
I have drained the tank of it's fuel and removed the petcock. I was greeted with white gunk (see attachment). I have removed the internal fuel filters and placed an external filter. I checked the carb filter and that too was clogged again.
Before I give it another shot I want to clean the carbs since I am quite sure that the jets are clogged as well. When I drained the floater chambers it also contained some white residue so it did manage to pass the filters.
After struggling a bit with old screws I managed to remove the jets. Is it correct that the Mikuni carbs contain three parts per carb that can be cleaned with ultrasound? Just checking before I hand them off to take a bath.
While they are being cleaned I will just clean the carbs with some break cleaner and completely drain the tank to rinse it with water and let it dry over the weekend or do you have some other suggestions?
Thanks in advance!
odd stuff :icon_scratch:
did you get the tiny filter from the fuel inlet pipe t-piece too?
Welcome to another episode of Aeschere and the Tiger!
This weekend I cleaned the tank. I filled it with water, gave it a good shake all around and drained the water. Repeated that for a few times. I let the tank dry for a few days.
In the meantime I cleaned the carbs. I took the jets to the local bike shop to get them cleaned with ultrasound but the owner told me that that would be a waste of time and money since they were already clean. Back home I cleaned them out with the compressor. It was a little moist so it eventually began spraying water dust which was great to get everything shiny clean. I also cleaned out the rest of the carb parts without taking the carbs apart from each other.
While I was at it I also removed the airbox and planned on replacing the filter. It turned out the previous owner had already placed a K&N filter that just needed to be cleaned so I went to town again with the compressor.
Today I reassembled the whole thing, let the carbs fill a bit and started it in one go. Perfect! Or at least, so I thought.
I let the engine run a bit, revved it a few times, kept the engine on 6k revs for a moment and it all seemed fine.
I was ready to install the removed side farings when the bike just stopped. I didn't touch it at that moment.
I thought I heard it stall a little bit about 30 seconds to 1 minute before it stopped so I am still guessing it is the fuel.
For some reason the bike wouldn't start again and I drained the battery while trying. Tomorrow I will remove the external filter and just connect the petcock directly on the carbs so see what happens. If it starts up again and keeps running I think I will just leave the filters out and pour in a cleaner once in a while.
What do you think? Any other suggestions as to what I can look at?
Did it just die, as if the ignition had been turned off??? If so it still sounds like pick up coil.
Sounds electrical to me. I wouldn't expect it to die so suddenly with fuel starvation. I usually turn my fuel tap off a few hundred yards from home, and let it idle for a bit in order to drain the carbs before it goes to bed. Sometimes it gets a bit lumpy as it runs out of fuel, but its more of a gradual power loss till it stalls..
:iagree with Gav and Phil, I would change the pick-up coil,
Quote from: ssevy on June 09, 2016, 03:18:22 PM
On the bright side, you should carry a spare pick up coil (technically called "the little fucker" 😆 ) with you anyways, so if you don't need it this time, you'll have it for the future.
mine was failing in the higher rev range, i.e. when accelerating If it was fuel it is more likely to splutter and die... did you notice if the rev counter dropped off suddenly when it cut out?
It is very difficult to set the float heights to an identical setting, which means fuel starvation is usually characterized by the dropping of a cylinder and then some stumbling. Definitely agree with the others it is electrical. Probably TLF.
check for more white gunk in the carbs :nod
BTW the white stuff is nylon plastic flaking off the inside of the tank . :bug_eye
been there done that
I had a tank that was so bad it now sits in the attic because I got tired of cleaning white stuff out of the carbs and filters
I seriously doubt you have an ignition sender problem
If it starts up again when cool the pick up coil would be a prime candidate. Try running it with a portable fuel tank to eliminate the tank / petcock.
Right, charged the battery again, hooked it up and voila, the bike starts in one go. I also checked the sensor readings and they were way off. So, I guess I drop an e-mail to the dealer or order a new one from world of triumph.
Thanks for all the suggestions so far!
One more question, what do you guys think of imitation stuff? The local triumph dealer is suggesting a PVL make instead of the regular Gill that is usually fitted.
This is the part he is suggesting (yes, the website address is iffy at best ;) )
http://www.worldoftriumph.eu/index.php?route=product/product&path=104&product_id=352
As far as I know it's a reputable company. both brands are used by Triumph, he may be making the suggestion based on the fact that PVL (AKA Nology) coils are considered superior quality to GIL... and cheaper on ebay:
GIL=
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Triumph-Tiger-900-Carb-Crank-Position-Sensor-Ignition-Pick-Up-Trigger-Coil-/291478181554?hash=item43dd7416b2:m:mPPBJdx0Mc474_Bhb2xjylQ
or PVL =
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Crank-Position-Sensor-Trigger-Pick-Up-Coil-PVL-for-Triumph-Tiger-900-Carb-/291350245992?hash=item43d5d3f268:g:chYAAOSwo6lWQdko
Don't buy GILL, PVL are the choice if you're replacing like fir like. NOLOGY are PVL in drag.
The sensor arrived yesterday, unfortunately without a new gasket so I hope I can reuse the one that is fitted now. It looks like it will stop raining tonight so hopefully I can replace the sensor and see how the bike reacts to it.
Quote from: Aeschere on August 03, 2016, 03:04:50 PM
The sensor arrived yesterday, unfortunately without a new gasket so I hope I can reuse the one that is fitted now. It looks like it will stop raining tonight so hopefully I can replace the sensor and see how the bike reacts to it.
You may be able to remove the old gasket intact using care and a sharp blade, then refit with a smear of silicone. (I didn't have a gasket so used just silicone sealant, its still good 2yrs on) and apply some around the rubber grommet where the cable goes through - don't forget the 0.7mm air gap.
Just fitted the sensor and the bike started first go and kept running. I left it running idle for about 10 minutes and it ran without a stutter.
I suited up and drove 15km without any issues so the problem seems to be fixed!
Before I can return to using it for commuting and some longer distances there are still a few things that need to be done:
- Synchronize the carbs
- Check the air gap (is that needed when the bike is running fine?)
- Fit a new gasket with some sealant. It fits for now and there is no oil leakage but I am not sure it is water proof.
Stay tuned for another episode! Thanks for the help so far!
If it's not leaking oil, it's not likely you'll get water in unless you go swimming with it.
Hello, new to the forum. I'm having the exact issue as the OP. I already ordered a new pick up coil. My question is , do I need to drain the oil before I install it? The manual doesn't specify? Thank you.
No oil will leak out ....with bike on side stand especially
Also set the air gap at about the thickness of a matchbook or business card . :icon_wink:
Beautiful! Thank you very much!