Ok, here goes....
Bought my lightly ridden, British racing green 1998 Tiger in 2006. Rode it lightly for two years, then drained the fuel and put in it storage for a few more years, and a few more...and a few more still... until finally almost 10 years later she is seeing light of day again. I probably should have sold it years ago, but that is not the point now. Even though she is not running right now, she has good bones. Really good. As in......less than 3850 miles on the odometer. For a 1998. She demands to be restored and ridden....
So there is a whole host of things I need to do, am sure. Comments on how to properly get her in working order are welcome, however, her is what I am doing first:
-- First off, am going to drain the oil and replace - does anyone know if I should use a detergent to make sure all the old oil is gone, or just replace whatever is in there with the mfgr recommended oil?
-- Second, new battery. Duh.
-- Are 3850 mile brake pads still good, after 19 years? Need replacing? What about brake fluid?
-- Curiously, I can not get the petrol tank open. Key fits in and turns OK, but the door does not open at all. Have tried gently inserting flat head screwdriver into crease and trying to pop it, but no luck, and I don't want to force it. Any ideas why it will not open?
I can replace pretty much any part on my car, so am pretty handy... BTW, I really regret that it is a steamer and not an injection. I remember having a bear of a time starting her back in the good old days when it was really cold outside. That said, I think with a carburetor she should be pretty easy to going again. Deep breath....
When the old oil is drained, leave the sump plug out and tip some fresh oil in it should flush the old oil through then new filter. Job done?
Try some wd 40 sprayed in the key hole it loosen the cap. :5moped
even if you don't want to .....................the carb's HAVE TO COME OFF !
so get the beast up on stands and
pull the drain bolt and oil filter put em somewhere safe and sound .
let it drip for days while you work on other shit .
the tank and body works gotta go .....................
while your at it drain the tank ..........the cap being stuck is probably the rubber gasket melted to the tank from old age /gas vapors and being in place for 10 years ...............be prepared to repair it or replace it .
yank the carbs after you get the air box out
disassemble and get all the bits soaking in carb cleaner,
blow out all the passages with compressed air , you may also need to run a pc of fine wire thru the pilot hole , they always block up with aluminum oxidation .
now see if you can get the airbox split without the plastic disintegrating..............the 20 year old foam element should be crumbling apart from old age
if you were successful in splitting the box :><
if not a new filter from triumph (if available) comes with the box
if you were successful ....snag a new k&n element for like 40 bucks
if these are keihins , while its apart you may as well fix the piss poor factory jetting .
theres a post somewhere on here how to do it .
and nows a good time to bin the gill coils , cuz they just plain suck .................nologys :love10
put it all back to gether
dont forget the oil
hook your new battery to the car with jumper cables and hit the go button ....................let it spin , the faster the better ..................soon it should cough cough sputter , eventually start m don't touch the throttle use the choke .................let er run at 2000 rpms for a bit then you should be good to go .
oh yeah tires and brake pads too
Quote from: tonytiger on December 05, 2017, 10:12:41 AM
When the old oil is drained, leave the sump plug out and tip some fresh oil in it should flush the old oil through then new filter. Job done?
Try some wd 40 sprayed in the key hole it loosen the cap. :5moped
I wouldn't... Rubber doesn't like WD40 - it usually swells.
While you've got the carbs off, flex the carb / head and carb / airbox rubbers a serious flex, any signs of cracking = replace them, save yourself a world of pain later.
Brake pads, personally I'd replace them. I've taken pads out before where the friction material just fell away without any contact, revealing rust behind even though the outside looked OK.
I'd be tempted to sacrifice a few litres of 10w oil after draining and refitting the drain plug, take the spark plugs out, stick a big jump battery on it, warm the 10W up to about 50°C, put it in and spin the engine over until you feel a rise in temp on the cam cover before draining again.
On the plus side, having sat for so many years, it probably didn't have much of anything in the way of ethanol in it before layup.
:iagree
Follow the mustang and sin tiger-the animals of Steamers. Their advice is like Scotch-sometimes it burns but always makes you feel better.
Short update..
So I purchased a new battery recently and just for kicks installed it and hit the ignition. Without any hesitation, this bike that has been in storage for nearly eight years turned over like she was ready to fully roar. I disconnected the fuel line prior since I wasn't actually trying to start it, and didn't want any muck from the tank to get into the fuel system. Which brings me to the next bit...
I apparently did not quite drain all the gas out of the tank. There was 3-4 cups worth of some really vile stuff in there. I think when I originally drained it I did not select "reserve", on the fuel tap assembly to fully drain it. I ended up removing the whole tank, and taking out the fuel tap assembly to make sure everything was indeed out of the tank. Good thing, since the fuel tap also had some gunk in it that would have prevented fuel flowing easily.
Today I also took apart the right and left hand knuckle guards to clean the clutch and brake fluid reservoirs, and drain them. I have the clutch and right hand brake leavers off and noticed the lube grease is nasty. Does anyone have any recommendations with what is the appropriate type of grease I should use when reassembling?
On brake and clutch levers that contact master cyl pistons, either Castrol Red Rubber Grease or a Rubber safe grease is normally recommended. Many general purpose greases can swell the piston rubbers.
:iagree
When cleaning out the master cylinders, take special care to ensure the tiny holes on the bores are clear.
Is synthetic brake fluid recomended with new seals?
I use this on everything
Quote from: threepot on December 17, 2017, 05:56:37 PM
I use this on everything
Everything :bug_eye
DOT4 is fine, open a fresh bottle, DOT5 has it's + & - and isn't any real benefit for road bikes.
So, I found this gem on Wikipedia....
"...The 'steamer' has proved a durable and tough motorcycle as befits its Dakar Rally type image, but it does suffer from several minor design flaws that hamper routine maintenance and give rise to some recurrent mechanical problems. These disadvantages tend to imply that most long term owners are at least mechanically competent and moreover somewhat idiosyncratic in their determination to keep this type of machine running...."
Which is a nice segue into my next point, which is my belief that there is a special circle in hell waiting for a British gentleman, probably in his late 50's or older, who was the engineer responsible for designing the placement of the airbox on the 885. Why the hell do I need to remove virtually all body fairings and the carburetors in order to replace the GD air filter? I need to remove the carbs anyway to clean them, but I am probably going to "modify" my airbox with a Dremmel tool to allow the air filter to be slid out.
Madness. :icon_mad:
It ain't thar bad....once you learn the trick
"Idiosyncratic" is probably one of the nicer things I've been called :hat10
So I managed to get the carbs and airbox off. Swearing was involved, but that's par for the course. The airbox has some cracks which may be repairable with epoxy, but I may end up just buying a new one. K&N replacement filter is $55 on Amazon, but I can buy a new box for $70 online. Will decide later.
More importantly, I need to clean the carbs and cylinder intakes, which are a mess. Notice that on #2, #3 cylinder intake there is a yellowish-white residue. Question -- What is this? Evaporated gasoline? Curiously, cylinder intake #1 is relatively clean. Any ideas why that may be? Fortunately, the residue seems to mostly come off with a Dremel tool w/ nylon brush attachment, but it will still need a good cleaning w/ solvent. Same story on carbs #1, 2, and 3.
Final questions, can anyone recommend a carb rebuild kit? I am told that the Keihin CVK carbs on the 98 Steamers were also used on some Kawasaki and HD engines, and may be easier to find searching that way. Also, if anyone is aware of a thread that walks you through the cleaning, feel free to include a link.
There is a curious zen to spending Christmas holiday in a cold garage smelling of oil and solvent.
I'd guess that's due to the bike sitting on the side stand and high (really high) humidity, perhaps leaking float valves have allowed fuel to sit in the inlets. The volatile portion of the fuel has evaporated leaving whatever moisture that the ethanol has absorbed to do it's worst, it may be that you'll find similar inside the heads. You might get away with that but I'd definitely do an oil change before you do anything else.
There are a couple of UK carb specialists and in sure there will be some in the US.
I'd be looking at the tank insides, fuel tap with filters and the in line filter as well.
Custard in the carbs?
There is nothing to rebuild in a keihin
If the rubber diaphragms are good (not stretched out)
Scrub scrub scrub . Clean them
Take em apart and soak em in carb cleaner for a day or 4
Throw a couple new orings at em
Job done
While your in there......102 or 105 main jets
Replace the pilot jets with #40'S
And set the pilots at 2 turns out
Personally if you have a cracked box for 16 bucks diff. Go with oem
Warm Keihins with a drizzle of custard sauce, not even Nigella could make that sound appetising :*&*
Quote from: Mustang on December 27, 2017, 12:57:14 PM
While your in there......102 or 105 main jets
Replace the pilot jets with #40'S
And set the pilots at 2 turns out
Personally if you have a cracked box for 16 bucks diff. Go with oem
Thanks for the info Mustang. What is the rationale behind replacing the stock main and pilot jets on the Steamer? What performance differences will one notice over the stock jets/settings?
Regarding my existing airbox (with minor cracks), I am probably going to tinker with it, based upon the below mod, and see if its worth the effort.
http://www.tigertriple.com/forum/index.php/topic,14638.0.html
...
they are way too lean from the factory to satisfy EPA
the bigger mains take out the dead spot when you whack it full throttle ....... :wheel
and the #40 pilots help normal cruising big time ....it may have #40's in it already
also if you shim the needles with some 1/32 thick (.0312 ) washers you can say goodbye to that terrible bog that happens on your way past 4500 rpm ............... :bad
Quote from: Sin_Tiger on December 05, 2017, 03:40:29 PM
While you've got the carbs off, flex the carb / head and carb / airbox rubbers a serious flex, any signs of cracking = replace them, save yourself a world of pain later.
Brake pads, personally I'd replace them. I've taken pads out before where the friction material just fell away without any contact, revealing rust behind even though the outside looked OK.
I'd be tempted to sacrifice a few litres of 10w oil after draining and refitting the drain plug, take the spark plugs out, stick a big jump battery on it, warm the 10W up to about 50°C, put it in and spin the engine over until you feel a rise in temp on the cam cover before draining again.
On the plus side, having sat for so many years, it probably didn't have much of anything in the way of ethanol in it before layup.
Not just these ... brake hoses if not already steel, any other rubber parts might also be suspect. Rebuilding the calipers & master cylinders is easy enough, parts still available. Find someone with an ultrasonic cleaner, or soak overnight in 50/50 Pinesol & water.
Don't worry, we can guide you through.
I literally cannot work in the garage its so cold. 10F. Have retreated to basement workroom...
Carbs cleaning was much lest PITA than anticipated. Liberal application of carb cleaner, and between soaking the bowls and using Dremmel with nylon bristles inside and out, carbs look very nice (see before and afters). Float needles were corroded (spring buttons stuck) so new float needles along with new gaskets on the bowls.
Needle jet and main jets cleaned. Now I know why you shouldn't use a paperclip to clean jets (yes, I used a proper kit). I'd like to upgrade the mains and pilots before putting everything back together, but am having a hard time finding replacement/upgrade jets for CVK36's. Any recommendations where to look?
Quote from: NOVA-98Tiger on January 08, 2018, 04:07:49 AM
Needle jet and main jets cleaned. Now I know why you shouldn't use a paperclip to clean jets (yes, I used a proper kit). I'd like to upgrade the mains and pilots before putting everything back together, but am having a hard time finding replacement/upgrade jets for CVK36's. Any recommendations where to look?
cheap and easy way .........................get a #60 drill bit (.040 inch)
start with a #61 if your chicken which will pretty much equal a #100 main jet which would be a very slight improvement from stock (if you even notice it )which was .98 mains
******************************************
spin it thru
BY HAND...........no drill motor
you just made yourself a set of 104 possibly 105 main jets
**********************************************
and they work oh so good in a 98 steamer with keihin carbs ! especially on the east coast , like say northern virginia ....LOL
and you'll still knock down 45 mpg as long as your right wrist can behave :wheel
trust me it works very very well and , you don't need to change the pilots ............just try running the screws at 2 turns out , maybe 2 1/4
and try shimming the needles up 1/32 of an inch ..................sometimes it helps the midrange ............sometimes it don't
example I have two 98 steamers that are exactly 100 digits apart on the VIN's and one loves the shims the other not so much .
and that setup works with oem filters or k&n's
also behaves well at all altitudes including beartooth pass in montana ............ :bad
When I rebuilt the Keihins on my Legend, I replaced the needles with Thruxton needles, which have a faster taper. Another way to achieve what Mustang is doing with the shims.
I got my replacement parts from various sources on eBay as well as some stuff from Hermys. If he doesn't have it on the shelf, I'll bet he can get it.
I got my parts from jetsrus.com. Don't order the needle valves by make and model but the ones with the actual triumph part number (you will get small ones by make and model). They have keihins or knock offs. Also, both Harley and Klrs used the same carbs.
Yeah, but the Harley ones are probably chrome plated😉
Caught a particularly viscous case of the flu a few weeks ago, followed by pneumonia, and haven't been able to do much until this week. My antibiotics and steroids have too many vowels and X's and V's....
I am in the process of ordering new jets, but in the meantime I have a question about coils. i've read some threads here on Nologies, and note that some bikes came with OEM coils manufactured by the same company that makes Nologies. This would seem to negate any benefit to replacing those particular coils. Looking at what is on my bike, the stock coils have no markings on them that i can see. Any suggestions how to determine what version of coils I actually have?
Now that I think about it I do have one other jetting question. I am definitely replacing my 98 mains with 104s, and shimming the needles with #4 brass washers. However, I note Mustang you make one comment about replacing the stock 38 pilots with 40's, but then in another post talk about just leaving the stock pilots in and adjusting the turns. So at the end of the day, is it six one way, half dozen the other?
Come to think of it, how to I tell what size the stock pilots are - is it stamped on the side? I have yet to pull them...
As always, thanks for the help everyone.
The pilots will be marked.....
The difference can be made up by the # of turns on the needle screw.
40s will work very well at 1 1/2 turns out
38s want e n ought turns out that you really should swith to 40s
Make sense ?
In the old days bonnevilles ran just fine with the pilots removed. The passages in the carb body were equal to like 42 pilots......l ol
With the coils, it's not just the brand, but also the age as a factor.
I had Gill coils on my Legend and PVL coils (red bottom) on my Tiger when I bought them. Put the Nologys in both and kept the others for spares in my parts cabinet. After my buddy's coil issue last summer, he was glad I had some spares when we limped back to my house.
Others have replaced with the stick coils, but whichever way you proceed, I would get new ones and save your old ones for back-ups.
I may even start carrying one of the PVL with me as a back up on long road trips myself.
Got my #4 brass washers yesterday and was trying to figure out how to properly install them in the carbs as shims. I know it is clear to practically anyone who has rebuilt carbs how the shims should be fitted, but I am a newbie here. Looking at the parts schematic below, I'd appreciate it of someone could confirm if #1 around the needle is correct, or #2 position between the needle and piston spring seat. I assume the washer goes around the pin as in #1, but I'd rather to this the right way the first time. Thanks!
#1 under the needle. You're trying to raise the needle very slightly to increase the amount of fuel delivered.
Thanks. That is what I thought, but wanted to double check. :icon_salut:
Just received #105 Mains, #40 Pilots and copper needle shims while away on a trip this week (thank you JetsRUs). Got to work today cleaning, and am really happy how the copper fittings cleaned up with carb cleaner. Looking at the first picture which includes the mains and pilots, what are parts A and B called? Part B, the bottom of which just juts into the carb venturi, was almost glued into the carb body. Between the carb cleaner and the butt end of a screwdriver inserted into the carb orifice (gentle tap tap tap), it came out. Soaked it in carb cleaner which appears to have removed the varnish.
Other question, (see second picture) the fitting that the Main is screwed into (part A), itself screws into the carb body, but not all the way – threads still visible. Is this correct?
Lastly, with respect to the number of turns for the pilots... Various posters suggest 2 – 2.5 turns. Does this mean drop the pilot into its slot, and screw them down X turns, or screw the pilot in fully, then back out X turns? Seems the latter is the more accurate since all pilots start from exactly the same position. Not sure what angle to view issue this from.
Trying to get this right the first time. Hate to redo work.
Worth checking condition of plastic float bowls? Note the bend? These were from the Mikunis off my Daytona. I replaced with the white ones from a spare set of carbs i had. Read Mustangs reply on page 2 re pilot screw settings.
Quote from: threepot on February 12, 2018, 09:13:48 PM
Worth checking condition of plastic float bowls? Note the bend? These were from the Mikunis off my Daytona. I replaced with the white ones from a spare set of carbs i had. Read Mustangs reply on page 2 re pilot screw settings.
Keihins aint got that sophisticated shit in em :mut
just a plastic float and a steel pin
Quote from: Mustang on February 13, 2018, 03:08:34 PM
Keihins aint got that sophisticated shit in em :mut
just a plastic float and a steel pin
Is that good or bad???😕
From memory (I rejetted my '98 approx 3-4 years ago);
I don't know what part A is called but I remember it sticking out a little - the same as your 2nd pic.
I never removed part B as it didn't seem to want to move so I blasted it with carb cleaner whilst it was in place.
Pilots should be screwed fully in until they stop (very gently) then back them out 2-2.5 turns.
Quote from: GavD on February 13, 2018, 10:38:53 PM
From memory (I rejetted my '98 approx 3-4 years ago);
I don't know what part A is called but I remember it sticking out a little - the same as your 2nd pic.
I never removed part B as it didn't seem to want to move so I blasted it with carb cleaner whilst it was in place.
Pilots should be screwed fully in until they stop (very gently) then back them out 2-2.5 turns.
After I wrote my post and thought more about it, I realized I had in fact reassembled the mains in correct order, so QED it musta been fine as is. Thanks for confirming how to adjust the pilots. You da man, GavD
Replaced the coolant and clutch fluids this past week, as well as double checked the coils were functioning properly - took the plugs out and verified they are sparking when the engine turns over. Also put airbox back together - had to use Xacto knife to trim the K&N air filter that was supposed to be an exact fit, but whatever - it fits now. Also used Demmel to clean the intake manifold on the engine block (see yellow custard crud in previous pictures), but I can't reach in all the way to get everything. I suspect engine may run a little rough for a while until the fuel/heat eventually erodes it away.
Am going to reinstall the rebuilt carbs later this week when I have more time - new #40 main jets and #105 pilots installed, needle is shimmed with brass washer, too. Last thing I did was disassemble pilot (idle) mixture screw and clean - what is the recommended number of turns for it when I screw them back in? Yes, I should have made note when I took 'em aparts... I can fine tune it later with the right angle mixture screwdriver, but would appreciate a baseline setting to get me started before I put the assembly back on the bike.
In the meantime, here is some gratuitous nudity....
You keep asking what is the setting for the idle /or pilot mix screw?!!! I have stated to read Mustangs reply on page 2,and Gav has contributed...about 2-2 1/2 turns Out from fully IN :icon_rolleyes:
Quote from: threepot on February 25, 2018, 10:47:54 PM
You keep asking what is the setting for the idle /or pilot mix screw?!!! I have stated to read Mustangs reply on page 2,and Gav has contributed...about 2-2 1/2 turns Out from fully IN :icon_rolleyes:
So, to be clear, my
original question from the other page had to do with the correct settings for the
Pilot JET, which is located INSIDE the float bowl. I replaced the Pilot JET and screwed it 2 1/4 turns from seated. That is done. Thank you to those who helpfully provided feedback.
What I was asking about on my most recent post concerns the
Pilot or Idle Mixture SCREW setting, which is located OUTSIDE the float bowl, immediately adjacent to the engine. See attached picture (its from a CVK40, but its same arrangement). If there is some confusion over nomenclature of particular parts, or if I was unclear, thanks in advance for explaining it to me....
There is no adjustment in the float bowl to be made
Those pilot JETS ARE LABELED WRONG
Everything in the carb should be screwed down tight
The pilot needles need to be set at 2 turns out for a baseline starting point
Quote from: NOVA-98Tiger on February 26, 2018, 04:27:38 AMI replaced the Pilot JET and screwed it 2 1/4 turns from seated.
What I was asking about on my most recent post concerns the Pilot or Idle Mixture SCREW setting, which is located OUTSIDE the float bowl, immediately adjacent to the engine. See attached picture (its from a CVK40, but its same arrangement). If there is some confusion over nomenclature of particular parts, or if I was unclear, thanks in advance for explaining it to me....
The Pilot Jet should be screwed all the way in until it is hand tight.
The pilot/Idle mixture screw should be screwed in fully (very gently), then turned 2 and a half turns out.
Idle mix screws are available now for keihin carbs so you can adjust 'in situ'. Not sure exactly where to purchase from??