last weekend i went on down to the seattle cycle show and was pretty disapointed.the italian's brought out some cool stuff, but that was pretty much it. i think most of the bikes at the show were your run "o" the mill cruiser's. i could'nt get with in 10 feet of the new f800gs, it was surounded by about 7,452 sweater clad loafer wearin blue hairs all talking about how they would of done it diferent if they were in "long way round".i doubt if 99% of them ever even been off road.and then some snotty highbrow beemer rep proceeded to enlighten me on how much he disliked triumph tigers, as if we were some kind of uncooth subculture. well I AM!. i see milions of gs beemer's out hear in the great northwest, but never off road,and mostly in the sun shine(dont want to get there tour tech box's dirty on there way down to the wine shoppe). i guess it's like all the suv's driving around. thank god for the KTM display. at least those guy's were wearing hiking boots.nice bike's too. triumph had two - yes, two motorcycles at the show, a 1050 tiger and a 675 triple. the tiger kind of sat a lot like a vstrom - not to bad,not great, not out of the question. but the vstrom was really nice. maybe next year. i wish yamaha was bringing the xt660 to the states, but like the new transalp - it aint happin'n. oh well, piss on you BMW and your over priced and rated machines.
Heh. Pretty funny, a BMW robot dogging Triumphs.
BMW:
Final drive failures, CanBus failures, right cylinders seizing, clutch splines stripping, rear crankshaft seal failures, ABS problems and failures resulting in NO BRAKES...
Yeah do us a favor... keep all the posers on your brand, leaving the Tigers for those of us who actually ride.
you know it brother. on the up side, if i did buy a gs - i would get a really nice sweater and loafer collection. the sad thing is that the f800gs is a really nice bike, and i would'nt kick it out of the ol' garage. i just cant stand the snobery from either camp(harley or beemer). it's all good in the big pic, ya know.
Look at it this way....
If Starbucks had a 'bike show' it would be Beemers and Scooters
clammering over 'cranberry coffe' and some berry-nut roll.
Heaven forbid you show up with a dead bug on your jacket! ( You low life bug killer! )
Which is why I love Tigers and the Tiger crowd... they're independent, even from each other.
There are no lemmings, no posers, no "collective". You either ride a Tiger, or you do not.
Some prefer dirt, some only the road, some both... and it's all good.
God Bless John Bloor!
Interesting. I'd never put together the Cruiser crowd and BMW Adventure bike crowd connection but I think you are right. Quite frankly there are probably a lot of correlation's like that you could put together.
I've been riding Beemer's for a number of years. I never got together with another BMW rider during all those years. At least not for a ride. I met some of the nicest people though through BMWST.com. People I have met by chance that ride Beemers, very nice people.
I've heard of the snobbery that you speak of and quite frankly I've never run into it. I don't doubt that it exists though I've found most snobbery to be more perception than real. I'll admit that I'm a bit harsh when it comes to people that ride because they think it makes them look cool versus someone like myself that rides out of sheer passion. So in my own way I guess I can be a snob too. When I take my DR650 out for a ride I find that people riding "real" motorcycles don't wave at me. When I'm on the Beemer I get different responses. On the other hand I've found that 95% of the time, regardless if they are on a Harley or a Scooter, if I wave early enough they all wave back. So when I think that someone is a snob because they didn't wave at me I remind myself that I didn't give them enough time or I myself didn't wave. I have found people that own BMWs to whine a lot more than any other brand......
I'm actually glad to buy the Triumph. I really like the passion you guys have for your bikes. Triumphs have always been on my list of bikes to have. I suspect I'll buy another BMW someday. It was a great bike.
I'm looking forward to meeting some of you Tiger riders. You appear to have the passion for riding that I have and can relate to. I'm glad to "almost" be one of you!
Happy Man....
.. you said it yourself, you never hung around other BMW riders... when you rode a BMW. Now you have a Triumph and feel better...and you haven't even ridden with us!
Just think, all those years of riding while constipated!
Even though there were 'berries & nuts' in those rolls, it ain't enough to push the frustration and guilt that was building up inside.
I'd bet you can actually run faster and jump higher now!
Next thing you know...... you'll be staying at a Holiday Inn Express.
What a life. You and GEICO lizard.
Quote from: "TigerTrax"Happy Man....
.. you said it yourself, you never hung around other BMW riders... when you rode a BMW. Now you have a Triumph and feel better...and you haven't even ridden with us!
Just think, all those years of riding while constipated!
Even though there were 'berries & nuts' in those rolls, it ain't enough to push the frustration and guilt that was building up inside.
I'd bet you can actually run faster and jump higher now!
Next thing you know...... you'll be staying at a Holiday Inn Express.
What a life. You and GEICO lizard.
+1 Nice response!!
There is some truth to that. While I never experienced it I'm actually glad that people won't just assume that because I ride a Beemer that I'm a stuck up prick.
I think the people you are talking about are no different than the posers that ride cruisers and expect us to think that they truly ride motorcycles. They only ride becuase they think it's a cool thing to do so people will look at them and say "oooh!". The people you are speaking of probably only want others to think that they must be rich because they can afford a Beemer.
I know of what you speak but I never met them.
Now, I've owned and still own many makes and models. It's not the bike but the people that ride them.
My previous bike was an F650. I found that a lot of the "boxer" crowd looked down their noses at these "chain driven bikes" :shock: . But I only knew one big GS owner that could ride that pig offorad (and he had the mad skyllz, too 8) ). Meanwhile, we would leave them to their coffee shop hopping and head down the dusty trail.
Not the same with the F650 crowd. They like to ride with anybody who likes to ride. I still have a lot of F650 friends and none of them is too snobby to drool over my BRG Steamer.
BMW as a motorcycle manufacturer has a lot of stupid ideas about what does and does not belong on a bike and I could literally go on for hours down that path, but I won't. I will say they have no solid ground to stand on when they badmouth Triumphs.
Me? I'd probably LOVE an F800GS, but I'm not going to buy one new and definitely not buying a beta tester (first year) model from those clowns.
So what is my point? I forget. :oops:
Quote from: "JetdocX"...So what is my point? I forget. :oops:
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
I think it's just the character of the one riding it. Poser vs. Non Poser.
Quote from: "JetdocX"I found that a lot of the "boxer" crowd looked down their noses at these "chain driven bikes"
While traveling this past summer, I ran across two BMW riders at non-BMW shops, hoping that they could get their final drives rebuilt before they ran out of vacation time and money. I expressed my condolences for their delayed trips and newly-tightened budgets, and went on my way... on my chain-driven bike.
They can look down their noses all they want. A couple hundred bucks and two hours' time and my driveline is as good as new.
And I can tell when it's approaching the end of its service life, so I can go ahead and do the work
before I go on a trip. Try that with a BMW FD.
Yep, chains ain't bad.
Quote from: "Stretch"Quote from: "JetdocX"I found that a lot of the "boxer" crowd looked down their noses at these "chain driven bikes"
This past summer I ran across two BMW riders looking for a local shop that would rebuild their final drives.
They can look down their noses all they want. A couple hundred bucks and two hours' time and my chain is as good as new. And I can tell when it's approaching the end of its service life, so I can go ahead and do the work before I go on a trip. Try that with a BMW FD.
Yep, chains ain't bad.
Having both chaiin and shaft I would agree with you. Many people have asked me during past purchases why I would buy anything but shaft drive. I always told them I was buying in spite of the shaft drive. Yes, there are some nice things about shaft but I much prefer the advantages of chain, most of which you've already covered.
I'd prefer to not get shafted...... :roll:
My last bike was shaft-drive, a Honda V45 Super Magna. It was bullet-proof... no trouble whatsoever. But it had a two-sided swingarm... the stress on the hub bearings is minimal compared to a single-side swingarm with shaft-drive. The BMW bearings are simply too small, but BMW Motorwerk won't change their design because larger bearings would result in a larger, less aesthetically-pleasing final drive.
Fine. Keep your dainty, pretty hub with the see-through axle. I'll be out riding.
Germans are stubborn! (I am one...)
I need a break from work so I can take this Tigger for a ride. How's the weather in Georgia next month? Any good places to ride?
Hell yeah, I just walked in the door. Did a couple hundred miles today, riding with three black-and-chrome cruiser riding friends. We stuck to mountain roads, crossed a couple gaps, and the related twisties. A large time was had by all.
One dude hadn't been out with us before, nor had he ever seen a dolled-up ADV bike. He didn't know what to think of it, especially with the TKC's. I guess he thought they would have to constantly wait on me, like I was riding an XL250 or something.
After smoking his ass off the line a couple times, I think he got the picture. The other two dudes who had ridden with me before had me lead in the twisties, so I could lean 'er over a bit. I would go charging on through a section, then slow up and wait for the low-riders to catch up.
Me getting air over a railroad crossing got his attention also. :mrgreen:
Damn I'm jealous......
I'll let you know if I'm coming your way. I need to get out and ride and if I don't clear my head soon I might blow up! My brother in law bought my Beemer and he's looking to get some comp time in so we're discussing the possiblity of getting out of town.
How are those TKC's in the twisties?
Just fine. It really surprised me. I was leaning quite a bit and the bike never once felt squirrelly. I still have the little fuzzies on the outside edge of the outermost knobbies, but that's it. I was using nearly all the tire in the curves, and they felt great.
I'm a big fan.
Add me to the TKC fanclub. I had them on my F650 and they were great tires.
Quote from: "JetdocX"Add me to the TKC fanclub. I had them on my F650 and they were great tires.
I was planning on switching out to them when my original wear out.
Hmmmmmmm,
-New tires
-Stretch's front fender
-Stretch's bash plate
-New windshield
-Stretch's Jesse Bags
Am I missing anything? Oh yeah, the money to do it! :twisted:
The fender I can do... the other stuff is way too labor intensive. I have a good couple hundred hours in that bash plate alone. The FrankenJesses took me over a month.
It'd be much cheaper for you to just buy the stuff from Touratech.
Quote from: "Stretch"The fender I can do... the other stuff is way too labor intensive. I have a good couple hundred hours in that bash plate alone. The FrankenJesses took me over a month.
It'd be much cheaper for you to just buy the stuff from Touratech.
I thought we had a deal with the dog.....Didn't you receive her yet?
Hmm... nope.
Christmastime... busiest shipping time of the year. Hope you poked enough holes in the box.
Quote from: "Stretch"Hmm... nope.
Christmastime... busiest shipping time of the year. Hope you poked enough holes in the box.
I thought you wanted her stuffed. Lower maintenance....kind of like shaft drive... :roll:
Quote from: "Stretch"Heh. Pretty funny, a BMW robot dogging Triumphs.
BMW:
Final drive failures, CanBus failures, right cylinders seizing, clutch splines stripping, rear crankshaft seal failures, ABS problems and failures resulting in NO BRAKES...
Yeah do us a favor... keep all the posers on your brand, leaving the Tigers for those of us who actually ride.
No arguement about the first statement: BMW are definitely high maintenance. And high $ maintenance at that. The brand even has documented catastrophic mechanical failures
at speed.However, I ride with some Beemers occasionally, and let me tell ya, here in West Texas these guys can RIDE! Flat-out speed, twisties, and long distance, this bunch out of Lubbock will give any club a run for the money.
I'm not sure what they do with their BMWs up in Seattle, but we run the living shit out of our motorcycles here in Texas, and we don't wear cowboy hats.
Quote from: "HappyMan"I have found people that own BMWs to whine a lot more than any other brand......
I'm looking forward to meeting some of you Tiger riders. You appear to have the passion for riding that I have and can relate to. I'm glad to "almost" be one of you!
BMW riders
whine because their machines are:
broke, just fixed, about to break, really expensive to fix when broke, or in a long line at the shop behind other broke BMWs. Not one problem out of El Tigre.
And BTW, you are one of us, this loosely associated group of independent thinkers who prefer "to take the road less travelled by."
Quote from: "Patrick the Scot"Quote from: "HappyMan"I have found people that own BMWs to whine a lot more than any other brand......
And BTW, you are one of us, this loosely associated group of independent thinkers who prefer "to take the road less travelled by."
And proud to be!! Merry Christmas fellow inmates. 8)
An interesting ongoing thread on ADV... it's a free-for-all, with Kool-Aid drinking BMW robots going 'round and around with other owners about final drive failures, loose lugbolts, ABS failures, and servo brake lockups.
"The rear wheel fell off. Loose lug nuts or final drive failure."
"No, it's not the bike's fault."
"It's a bad design."
"No it isn't, I have 350,000 miles on my GS and it's like new".
:roll:
This is the sort of thing that completely killed my desire for a GS.
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=294123 (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=294123)
you know, as strainge as it sounds, i still wouldnt mind having a gs, as a second toy only, and only a pre98' pd. you can pretty much keep them though. i'll take my chain thank you very much. hey check out this guy from germany, he's a really cool dude, and a nice guy to talk to also
http://www.possi.de/ (http://www.possi.de/). and now is the time on sprockets when we dance(try that beemer boy's) :D
great picture of an fd failure on that adv link :lol: yup, thank god for chains. hey stretch, i think i made them mad :P
Quote from: "Stretch"An interesting ongoing thread on ADV... it's a free-for-all, with Kool-Aid drinking BMW robots going 'round and around with other owners about final drive failures, loose lugbolts, ABS failures, and servo brake lockups.
"The rear wheel fell off. Loose lug nuts or final drive failure."
"No, it's not the bike's fault."
"It's a bad design."
"No it isn't, I have 350,000 miles on my GS and it's like new".
:roll:
This is the sort of thing that completely killed my desire for a GS.
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=294123 (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=294123)
Honestly, you hear about the problems and don't hear about the successes and I think they whine way too much but it did drive me to another brand. It wasn't the reason for me to change up and I'll probably buy another Beemer but the constant whining got to me.
Quote from: "aeronca"great picture of an fd failure on that adv link :lol: yup, thank god for chains.
I'll see if I can find it, but somebody there posted photos of their FD failure that caught fire.
Quotehey stretch, i think i made them mad :P
And the snobbery came out. Again.
I had a F650GS as a local runabout. I was very happy with it in so far as it was reasonably light, very agile and frugal - often returning 68 mpg (and it had a chain) I finally got rid of it because, other than getting tired of it's lack of grunt, the surface finish was very dissapointing (much flaking paint on the alloy parts not due to neglect and corrosion on fastners - when you pay a premium for a brand like BMW you expect stainless steel, not crappy plated mild steel) and it needed new head bearings after only 6000 miles. BMW claimed it wasn't a fault, but loads of other people had the same, thought to be caused by the oil in the frame heating the bearings alllowing the grease to run out.
Dealer was good, if expensive but BMW themselves couldn't care less - we've got your money now f*** off seemed to be their attitude.
holy crap stretch - i think you made that guy cry. i cant believe what i'm reading over there. it has inspired me to start a new thread, so if there are no complaints, lets go :wink:
-------------------------------
(Edited by Stretch to place those comments here, keeping all this restrained to just one thread. Thanks)
the link :D http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=294123 (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=294123)
ok my brothers and sisters, i've decided to start a new thread dedicated to adv and the oil-head kool-aid drinkers. if you havent had a chance to read whats going on over there, take a look. stretch linked this on my last thread(seattle cycle show), and it shows exactly what i was getting at with these new-age beemer guy's.you know, the only true motorcyclistsssss. and i would also like to say, good on you stretch - if that guy (xanderdick) or what ever his sign on is, could have come through the screen, i think he would have tried to comit bodily harm to you. wow. any way's, take a read and tell us what you think. at least here we can talk. thanks eric.
p.s. i'm known as "supercub" over there on adv :D
Gus? hey Gus are you out there (here) yet?
This is just up your alley!
p.s. Gus rides a black Tiger...'05 been around den dare furrin' bikes....
Aeronca, I deleted the new thread, cutting-and-pasting your comments from there into your latest post on this thread. There's not much sense in duplicate threads, so for housekeeping's sake let's just keep this subject in here.
---------------------------
I didn't go over there to participate in a blood feud, merely to set that one guy straight about chain drives. The conversation evolved a bit, but didn't get out of control. I do not want an ongoing battle between here and GSpot.
I enjoy my membership on ADV, and I don't want any of us to wear out our welcome on any of ADV's boards.
Baldy and his Mods were very helpful in letting us openly post information about Triumph-Tiger and TigerTriple on ADV's "Beasts" forum. They didn't have to do that. TriumphRAT and other sites strictly forbid linking to other sites.
I kept my comments on GSpot civil, but that one snob's comment-- "inferior chain drives... I'm glad I can afford better" was calling out for a dose of reality.
Three or four people in that very thread reported final drive failures of their own, one with photos of his broken driveshaft and swingarm.
During the course of my housekeeping and reorganization project here when we first opened back up, I've been through every single thread in this entire forum, and I don't recall a single post about a Tiger breaking a chain. There may be one, but I don't remember it.
Hell, there's a final drive complaint every two or three pages on GSpot. "Inferior chain-drive", my butt.
My brother and I both ride, both own three bikes, and both like to BS about bikes all the time, and test drive anything with two wheels. Talking with him the other day, I came up with this idea (you know the kind that you think might be right, but you're not quite ready to get behind fully.) So I throw it out there for your reading pleasure.
BMW sees itself and an innovating company, some of there bikes are loaded down with lots of new tech that do things differently than the usual motorcycle way of doing things, you know, like telelever, duolever, servo assist ABS, etc., but this is limited to their more expensive bikes (mostly.) Their innovative attitude is similar in many ways to Buell. Buell pioneered USD forks, which everyone uses now. The inside out front brake, the underslung exhaust, fuel in frame, and so forth are others. The difference I don't know why BMW made their innovations, they seem to be ends in them self--"look, we figured how to get a double wishbone into a motorcycle!"
I know each of these things has its benefits, but they also have an equal number draw backs. The FDs fail, the funky suspension add to unsprung weight, the ABS can fry in such a way that the breaks cease to work (the mongolia episode of LWR when they had to replace the cameraman's bike.) Buell is clear that their innovations are only a path to a goal - mass centralization, low unsprung weight, chassis rigidity.
Buell has it's problems (HD) but each out of the ordinary thing contributes significantly to the three goals. Everyone does USD forks, more are doing underslung exhaust, because the drawbacks are minimal. And even with a POS Harley motor, Buell's are insanely fun to ride.
When I look at the BMW line I realize the bikes that interest me the most are the the low end (meaning low tech) bikes with Rotax motors--the 650 Dakars, the new 800 bikes.
Triumph is a conservative company--they are not really innovators. The tech on all out bikes are five years old before we buy it. In a way, that means we take less chances, but we have more opportunity to ride, which isn't a bad thing. (hell, I just bought a 2008 bike with carbs! And it's not a KLR!)
A last point before I'm off to bed--about the fanatics. All bikes have them. Even our beloved Tiger. Check out the posts from Slide in ADV. I'm sure he's a nice guy, but usually when he enters a thread, the temp goes up +100 degrees. (Maybe he's a lurker here?) I tend to think fanaticism comes from a combination of sources:
1. I paid $15k for this bike because I wanted to be better than you. there are 5000 of us, and 30000 of you. Obviously we are the discriminating group. You must be a dolt to want a chain drive...etc.(extroverted fanatic)
2. I paid $15k for this bike and the $@#@#% final drive died again, I don't want to think I blew my money. (introverted fanatic)
3. I'm not a fanatic in person (internet amplification.)
4. I'm an asshole (asshole fanatic.)
Either way, they're fun to watch like a train wreck, but to paraphrase Stretch, let's not invite them home for dinner.
Well, what truly sucks is I out with some evil (cold/flu/bacteria/army of microscopic robots) infection, and instead of riding, I'm spending all day trying to figure out which exhaust will sound best on my bonneville, and wether I should be a cheap ass and buy the alum panniers from the KLR site ($300 delivered, sans mounts) or buy something real like TT or HT.
Geof
sorry to all, im letting my anger get the best of me. stretch is right, i'll let those gspot guy's fight it out. but i will say this - they make my point exactly about the snobery. long live the chain.
Buells are
very innovative. The first time I ever saw a Ulysses, I nearly splooged all over it. I still love them, but detest Harley engines... no Uly for me.
BMW is innovative, but they seem to short-cut the beta-testing of their machines...
Final drive failures have been documented for quite some time, as have the other common design faults I listed on page 1 here, yet they refuse to change / improve their designs.
Is that hope or arrogance?
Quotehey check out this guy from germany, he's a really cool dude, and a nice guy to talk to also
http://www.possi.de/ (http://www.possi.de/). and now is the time on sprockets when we dance(try that beemer boy's) :D
This dude is the real deal. So many of the GS crowd yearn to be Ewan and Charlie, it disgusts me. Yeah, it was a good show to watch, but they're both already rich, had free top-of-the-line bikes given to them, support trucks, secretaries to handle visas and the like for them back home, etc. etc. etc... yeah, really living on the edge there, boys.
The straw that broke the camel's back for me was when they were in Siberia, and one of their Russian truck drivers shot a bear in order to sell parts of it. The Hollywood nancys went off the deep end, whining about how it made them sick to see the guy killing a bear for money.
You spoiled little Hollywood shit, you're a fucking multimillionaire! You don't have to do a lick of work for the rest of your life, and neither do your kids... but that poor Russian has to drive a truck in fucking Siberia and kill bears in order to earn money for his family. And these rich, spoiled punks have the nerve to complain about it. Fuck them and their soft-hearted, enlightened pansy asses.
"Look at me... just like Ewan and Charlie!" If I read that once on BMW sites, I've read it a hundred times. Anyone who says that is a poseur of the highest order.
People who actually get on their bikes and travel just for the sake of doing it don't do it to emulate a couple of spoiled, rich Hollyweird types.
Like the German fellow there, he's the real deal.
But now the Buelly has a Rotax, Baby! No excuses! Cycle World seems to approve of the change. :D
I bought a used F650 as a first bike a few years back. I rode the PEEEPEEE out of that thing into places that make BMW think about voided warrantees. It's all I would ever need for dual sporting and I'd still have it if I thought I could afford four bikes in the garage.
So three years and almost 40,000 miles later, I still sold it for $1000 less than I paid for it. And that guy got a GREAT bike. That thing was bullet proof.
I hope to be as happy with my Steamer. Now that the suspension is sorted out, that should go a log way toward those ends. :wink:
Quote from: "JetdocX"But now the Buelly has a Rotax, Baby! No excuses! Cycle World seems to approve of the change. :D :
The HD dealer just got one in, and I kno a salesman there. The 1125R is not my type of bike, but I want to try it out. If Buell puts that lump in a Uly II, they will have a very formidable ADV bike.
Geof
Right, the Uly still has the 60-year-old Sportster engine, the 1125R has the Rotax. The 1125R is a sportbike... I'm too damn tall, not interested
*Edit- I threw a leg over an 1125R this past weekend at the show in Atlanta. Sexxaaaay! Me likey. I wouldn't be able to ride it across town without cramping up, but I did like it.