My Steamer is about to go MIA in the desert for good. Anyone need another POS Steamer? Mustang? :twisted:
Or: Coming soon to a classified section really near you..... :lol:
Dude, what happened?
Nooo! Well, If you're ditching it, I'm closer to NV than Mustang...or Dr. "El Duderino" Mordo. :-)
I saw you were looking at a KTM--nice bikes, both I and Fano now have one. Maybe others here too.
Geof
Yeah, What happened? As for KTM's, I race one. Really nice bikes in the woods.
I'm tired of the "it's always fookin' something with this bike" thing we have going on together. I think it's just pissed that I took it apart last winter, changed all the rubber, the suspension, etc, etc, and so on. I've had the plastic off this thing more times than I can count (both hands, both feet and unzipped) for one stupid thing or another. Normally I'm pretty patient, but enough is enough. I'd rather ride than look at the pieces of my bike in boxes in the garage.
It's a really fun bike to ride....when it is on it's game 100%. It's no fun doing the PM for no good reason it seems.
And I think my 3rd grade son could do a better job engineering this bike than Triumph did. :wink:
I'm going to bed. I'll dream of flames or sledge hammers or hey, why not both?
I too have a 450EXC, actually there are 3 KTM's in my garage. Love the Tiger though.
Please PM me before you do something stupid.
(PM some pictures)
Cheers
W
Quote from: "JetdocX"I'm tired of the "it's always fookin' something with this bike" thing we have going on together. I think it's just pissed that I took it apart last winter, changed all the rubber, the suspension, etc, etc, and so on. I've had the plastic off this thing more times than I can count (both hands, both feet and unzipped) for one stupid thing or another. Normally I'm pretty patient, but enough is enough. I'd rather ride than look at the pieces of my bike in boxes in the garage.
It's a really fun bike to ride....when it is on it's game 100%. It's no fun doing the PM for no good reason it seems.
And I think my 3rd grade son could do a better job engineering this bike than Triumph did. :wink:
I'm going to bed. I'll dream of flames or sledge hammers or hey, why not both?
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/2uoykcuf/emoticons/DirtDOG.gif) What 's wrong now !?
It needs another head gasket, and I think based on the shitty performance over a 200 mile trip yesterday an ignition pickup (crank position sensor) thingie.
I just love throwing parts at this thing. :evil:
Question: Will the 5 degree advance plate come with a new pickup?
Edit: Nevermind, I see it in the BikeBandit parts list.
Those of you who have had one of these things fail, what were the symptoms?
Quote from: "JetdocX"It needs another head gasket, and I think based on the shitty performance over a 200 mile trip yesterday an ignition pickup (crank position sensor) thingie.
I just love throwing parts at this thing. :evil:
Question: Will the 5 degree advance plate come with a new pickup?
Edit: Nevermind, I see it in the BikeBandit parts list.
Those of you who have had one of these things fail, what were the symptoms?
The head gasket is probably a result of warped head maybe , who did the valve work , but more importantly who put the head back on ?
When the ignition p/u on the crank dies , you'll know !
It just plain dies instantaneous , the tach will drop to zero immediately and no spark on all three . Coast over to the side of the road , wait ten , fifteen maybe twenty minutes and it will light up and run for about five minutes and then heat up and die again .Repeat process until you are home . :ImaPoser
Easy to replace you don't have to take the body work off :D
Your crappy performance is probably the head gasket
No it's definitely a miss fire or mis fueling. It's intermittant and especially noticeable in the mid range while accelerating. Seems to start when the bike gets warm.
Started yesterday after a fuel stop. Ran most of the fuel out of the tank and refilled at another station 200 miles away and no change.
Fuel mileage did not change, so I'm doubting a carb problem.
No water in the oil as the head gasket leak is very slight (about 12 ounces of water per week of riding or roughly two ounces per 200 miles). No water present in the oil. No oil in the water as far as I can tell. No coolant leaking externally. I keep the burp tank topped up and watch the level slowly drop at fuel stops. Squeeze the lower radiator hose to check for air in the system.
I was hoping to make it to winter before doing the head gasket or with my luck, the head because my luck works like this lately.
I don't think that small a leak into the cylinder would make any difference at all, but.........????
That's a fair amount of coolant to be digesting !
It is probably going out the exhaust which is a good thing , because if it gets past the rings anti freeze and main bearings hate each other and the results are not pretty :shock:
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/2uoykcuf/repairs/101_1817.jpg)
If you are using coolant you are losing compression on whichever cylinder is leaking and the <crap> FINE </crap>ignition is having a hard time dealing with the coolant .
It should get worse over time and you will also start to piss coolant out the overflow as more air is able to enter the system.
I'm just full of good news , aint I ? :evil:
On the bright side did you know that only six bolts hold the whole lump in the frame the downside is you only have to remove most of the friggin bike to get there :shock:
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/2uoykcuf/repairs/101_1816.jpg)
Or I could just light the fucker on fire and walk away. :lol:
The last vehicle I had this much trouble with had a Fiat emblem on the hood. :evil:
Are you seeing a lot of steam in the exhaust?
My bike has had similar symptoms, and it is almost certainly carb tuning, because I can almost tune it out altogether with constant tweaking. I've finally gotten it to where the miss is gone from the mid range, but it still has a decent miss at idle. Are you sure you just don't have some junk in the carbs?
Quote from: "JetdocX"Or I could just light the fucker on fire and walk away. :lol:
Will you pull the starter and alternator first for me? I need spares just in case.
Thanks!
So....I can probably do better parting it out at this point.
Good stuff:
Front forks with stiffer springs and gold valve emulators
Penske rear shock with external reservior, compression and rebound damping adjustments
Brand spanking new Galfer brake and clutch hoses all around with a little extra for bar risers/barbacks
Heated grips and heated grip handlebars
Undamaged fuel tank.
Undamaged left side and front fairings
Slight scratched right side fairing (for street cred)
3 nology coils
some other stuff I'm sure..... :lol:
So what's she worth?
Edit: Oh yeah, $1000 worth of brand new valves. :evil:
Fix the head gasket and It's a 2500 to 3 k machine if'n it has a decent chain and some tire left on it ! :BangHead
I think the parts are worth more than the bike is. I wonder... :lol:
EBAY !
Would be a shame though ! The number of Tigers that came to the US in 95 -98 were not that great .
In 1995 there were supposedly only 125 bikes (Tigers) imported
don't know #'s for 96 or 97
98's were only in the 500 unit range
The two 98's I have that came from seperate parts of the country only differ in VIN# by 100 .
I will certainly be interested in the shock, and quite possibly in the starter/alternator if the price is right. I also need the screw that holds the knob to the speedo (yes, it's true), and possibly your mirrors.
I need other stuff too. If you are serious, I'll PM you with a list and you can give me a price.
I wish I had the money, I'd make you an offer for the whole thing!
Well, I spent some more quality time going through the inards of the poorly-running Steamer.
I'm getting so good at taking it apart... :roll:
My performance issues are not related to the slight head gasket leak. It was something completely different...anyone here surprised that there could be more than one thing wrong with my bike???? :lol: :lol: :lol:
I removed all the plastic, and panels and airbox and carbs. Removed and replaced the plugs because they are cheap and I was in the 'hood. Inspected the insides of the airboxes for stray rags. Drained the carb bowls and blew air throught the fuel line and eventually into the float bowls to clear any stray debris. I did find a bit of shit (technical terminology, folks) in the finger screen (are they kidding?). I removed that underengineered POS and put a metal fuel fiter inline.
I also ohmed out the new nology coils for grins. Ohmed out the new plug wires for grins. I was able to tighten the cheesy spade connectors that power the coils.
Put it all back together and the problem was gone. So the problem may have been fuel delivery interrruption from POS non-filtration of fuel. Or it may have been an intermittant spark plug, or loose conection on a coil. Or it may have been something completely different that I happenned to fix purely by accident. Can't wait 'till next time. :roll:
I need another bike that I can use as a daily rider. The Steamer clearly isn't up to the task.
So does this mean I can't buy your shock for cheap?
This is interesting. Like I said, I've had similar problems all along. Many things have helped, but none have cured it. I ordered a P/U coil and a Factory Pro Carb kit, so I'm gonna go back thru and see if I can pin it down.
I hope you got it, my friend.
It only means that I'm probably going to put a few more miles on the shock. Sorry, bro.
My local dealer even HAD a head gasket kit in stock! I almost swooned.
Didn't change it yet because I'm going to mill the head a bit when I get around to pulling it off.
If I were you, I'd be going reallly slow and taking my time to check EVERYTHING. Too much machinery here, IMO. My next bike is going to be fuel injected for sure. Have you replaced the finger strainer with a quality in line automotive filter yet? That thing by itself gives me the ability to sleep at night knowing all manner of fuel tank crap is not going into the jets to cause problems.
You must be getting real fast at pulling EVERYFUCKINGTHING off to get to the carbs by now. :lol: :lol:
Dude, no kidding I have got the disassembly down to a science. I will say that my '99 F650 is not much better, and the carbs are actually much harder to fight out. Like 'tear the shit out the intake rubbers' hard.
Yeah, early on I took the finger filter out and just have a normal inline filter. I am increasingly convinced that it is my P/U coil. It seems like it is too intermittent to be a carb problem. The bike will be running perfectly, and then start missing and stuttering when I accelerate. It also seems like it gets worse when it sits for a couple of days. That said, it is also still running rich, so I'm sure the new needle jets will help. I also got new diaphragms on the way to be sure they aren't the problem. Like you said, I'm throwing parts at the bike.
I hope your bike treats you well for awhile.
Ya ever get the feeling like you me and Mustang are the only guys having problems with their Steamers? Not fair, dammit! :evil:
Edit: Or we have the only running ones still in the US. That seems more plausible to me. :lol:
Yeah, we certainly have a tight knit community of broken bike owners.
Abruzzi has the DAR on his new bike so he's part of the club, too.
We really should think about meeting up sometime and having some beers. Of course the problem is that we are all across the country from each other.
Quote from: "JetdocX"Ya ever get the feeling like you me and Mustang are the only guys having problems with their Steamers? Not fair, dammit! :evil:
Edit: Or we have the only running ones still in the US. That seems more plausible to me. :lol:
butt mine run good ! :shock:
no misfires just plain ol pull your arm out giddy up , We did buy them brand new though and have kept them 110% mechanically sound .
Helps that I am a mechanic tech. Never been to the dealer /stealer for anything other than parts .
You guys inherited someone else's nightmare and are now just getting them sorted , I salute you :icon_salut
you'll get there
they really are a very simple machine .
You should see the machines I used to work on for a living , they make the steamer look like child's play.
great big CNC lathes ,with shitloads of saftey equipment thats always in the way and needs removing . 8 hours of BS to get to the broke part which only took ten minutes to fix
the steamer simple requires routine maintenance. check tire pressure, check coolant and oil levels....drop engine and crack case :roll:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Quote from: "Dr. Mordo"Abruzzi has the DAR on his new bike so he's part of the club, too.
I'm not sure yet if that is the case. I need to make a recording, and post it here. There are very few Triumph owners around here, especially for the older carbed triples, so I have little to compare it to.
Speaking of DAR, has anyone found a good page that describes it, both diagnosis and repair if possible? Is this a tiger thing, or do all of the bike from this era suffer from it?
Geof
if it sounds like a can of rocks being shaken and goes away at oh say 3000 rpm you have a sheared bolt either on the alternator itself (easy fix and can be found by just pulling the alternator off and looking) or it could be a sheared bolt on the clutch side (not so easy a fix but doable )
Quote from: "JetdocX"Ya ever get the feeling like you me and Mustang are the only guys having problems with their Steamers? Not fair, dammit! :evil:
Edit: Or we have the only running ones still in the US. That seems more plausible to me. :lol:
I, too, have one that's being a pisshead. A '95 that misses when it warms up. It's not a fuel issue... It's been covered in another thread by another owner. I replaced the pickup coil and it runs better, until it gets warm enuff and it starts to miss. But it doesn't die like it did before! Coils next. The thought of a bad igniter .... shit.
You're like right over the hill from me, valley dood! :lol:
I ride through your hood all the time.
MCD, I don't know how expert you are at moto-repair, so I'll type out the interesting things from my Factory Pro Carbtuning instructions.
"A rich problem gets worse as the engine heats up. If the throttle is slightly 'blipped' at idle, and the RPMs drop below the set idle speed, then rises up to idle speed, the low speed mixture screws are probably set too rich: try 1/2 turn in to lean the mixture."
Also:
"A bike that runs cleanly at small throttle openings when cold, but starts to show signs of richness as it heats up to full operating temp will usually be leaned out enough to correct is the fuel level is lowered 1mm."
Finally:
"If there are low-end richness problems even after lowering the fuel level much more than 1.5mm from our initial settings (15mm), check for needle wear and needle jet wear."
I found this all pretty interesting, as I didn't know that carb problems are affected by the engine temp.
I've had this thing for a couple years now and this is the first it's given any trouble. Took it to Utah in June, then a couple weeks later it hauled my fat ass to Fortuna. On the return from that trip is when it started acting up. While riding thru Oroville the thing just quit. After a couple minutes it fired up, ran fine, and off I went. About 5 miles later it did it again. It did this a total of five times over 25 miles, with the last one just as I pulled into my shop. That's when I started looking and found this site and found that others were experiencing like behavior from their rides. And yes, I'm pretty good at working on motors, etc., but won't call myself a factory tuner! Thanks for the advice, tho.
Quote from: "JetdocX"You're like right over the hill from me, valley dood! :lol:
I ride through your hood all the time.
Did you ride down 49 a couple weeks ago? Was sitting at Bassets(?) slurping a Pepsoline and a Steamer went by!
Quote from: "mcd"While riding thru Oroville the thing just quit. After a couple minutes it fired up, ran fine, and off I went. About 5 miles later it did it again. It did this a total of five times over 25 miles, with the last one just as I pulled into my shop. .
That my friend is the classic symptoms of ignition pick-up failure .
The sensor is on the right hand side of crankshaft , and for 70 bucks from bike bandit will cure that problem .
If you are experiencing any other probs after the new sensor is put on , RESIST the urge to tear into the carbs and just buy a set of three nology coils and life will be good again .
I just replaced the pickup. It runs great until it warms up, then it starts to miss. I haven't been able to get it to quit like it did before, tho, because I'm riding near the abode and limp it in before I get stranded. It feels like one cylinder going down, irrespective of load, rpm, choke.
I don't mean to steal this thread, but I can relate to the feeling of what to do with this thing....throw more money at it when it's only worth $2K!?
Quote from: "mcd"I just replaced the pickup. It runs great until it warms up, then it starts to miss. I haven't been able to get it to quit like it did before, tho, because I'm riding near the abode and limp it in before I get stranded. It feels like one cylinder going down, irrespective of load, rpm, choke.
I don't mean to steal this thread, but I can relate to the feeling of what to do with this thing....throw more money at it when it's only worth $2K!?
The plan is just like you say-- replace the coils. Going to try to locate some nology units today.
Quote from: "mcd"Quote from: "mcd"I just replaced the pickup. It runs great until it warms up, then it starts to miss. I haven't been able to get it to quit like it did before, tho, because I'm riding near the abode and limp it in before I get stranded. It feels like one cylinder going down, irrespective of load, rpm, choke.
I don't mean to steal this thread, but I can relate to the feeling of what to do with this thing....throw more money at it when it's only worth $2K!?
The plan is just like you say-- replace the coils. Going to try to locate some nology units today.
Here's where I got mine , cheaper than OEM's by about 200 bucks :shock:
http://www.nologyhotwires.com/
Thanks for the info.
So when you say it's missing, is it dying every time?
Quote from: "mcd"Quote from: "JetdocX"You're like right over the hill from me, valley dood! :lol:
I ride through your hood all the time.
Did you ride down 49 a couple weeks ago? Was sitting at Bassets(?) slurping a Pepsoline and a Steamer went by!
I ride 49 quite often. Could have been me. Mine's Green.
On your missing problem it may help to just replace the plugs while you have the tank off. It may have something to do with your problem.
Dr Mordo - It hasn't died since I installed the new pickup coil. Once warm it misses, feels like one cylinder. A few months back it felt the same, and I figured it was electric as opposed to fuel because of the way it acted, that being rpm and load independent, and no difference with the choke on or off (operating temp). I limped it home and pulled the tank and found the center sparkplug galley had oil in it which had leaked past the valve cover gasket, causing it to short to the head. Cleaned it out and presto! Hopped back on and rode the thing for 10 days on a trip with no problems. Having said all that, here recently, after replacing the pickup coil, it runs smooth until warm, then starts to miss on what feels like one cylinder. This leads me to believe it's a bad coil, especially after reading other threads on this site citing similar issues and personal past experiences with other machines.
The thing has about 35K on it.
Jetdocx - It was green with stock pipes, so it was probably you.
Mustang - I ordered some coils last night. Thanks again.
Thanks for the info. My bike intermittantly drops one cylinder, so I am gathering info trying to diagnose it. I replaced the coils, but I'm gonna throw some new parts in the carbs and put in a P/U coil to see what happens.
Good luck.
I've been reading this thread(and the site) in an attempt to better understand the work involved in fixing and maintaining the steamer. Have learned much(thanks to all) during the process.
A question for the pundits. During this discussion part replacement seems to be the overall consensus. I was wondering if making adjustments such as carb synching and checking if the p/u was in or out of spec is the first line of defense when looking for a remedy for dropping a cylinder or engine cutting out. Or do the above produres have no relation to the problem(s) at hand.
My P/U coil measures in spec. The issue is that the bike run poorly when hot, so it is difficult to test to see what the problem is. Carb synching is an interesting question, that honestly I hadn't considered. For me, the fact that the bike runs perfectly until warm makes me think a carb sync issue is less likely, but I could certainly be wrong.
Quote from: "Dr. Mordo"My P/U coil measures in spec. The issue is that the bike run poorly when hot, so it is difficult to test to see what the problem is. Carb synching is an interesting question, that honestly I hadn't considered. For me, the fact that the bike runs perfectly until warm makes me think a carb sync issue is less likely, but I could certainly be wrong.
Yep cold the little fu**er's usually ohm out fine at .6 . when that motor heats up things go south , usually they will just up and die requiring a cool down before the motor will start again , but ...
I just replaced one yesterday on a friends bike that would only screw up AFTER the motor was shut off with the key :shock: ran fine until you stopped it then would not restart at all when hot . changed the sensor and it fired right up and run's like a trooper .
I usually keep 1 on hand as a spare . I have replaced them on all of my steamers at least once .
Installed the new coils today and Shazzam! The chick magnet has been remagnetized!
Steamoto wrote: A question for the pundits. During this discussion part replacement seems to be the overall consensus. I was wondering if making adjustments such as carb synching and checking if the p/u was in or out of spec is the first line of defense when looking for a remedy for dropping a cylinder or engine cutting out. Or do the above produres have no relation to the problem(s) at hand.[/quote]
My personal experience over the years with carb sync is that they come out of sync if someone messes with them, and that if a cylinder occaisionally drops it's not a sync issue. Could be some crap in a carb bowl, tho, if you're convinced it's a carb issue.
Quote from: "mcd"Installed the new coils today and Shazzam! The chick magnet has been remagnetized!
Nice !
You should have a much happier idle now too !
Morning all. First post for me, as I'm not currently a Steamer owner, but was lazily eyeing up my options for an imminent purchase, and came across a Tiger for NZ$6k at the following link...
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=199726904
My question for y'all is, (after reading as many posts as possible to better understand what I'd be getting myself into), is there any chance at all that a 96 Steamer that's done 60k (and already had the sprag done, but not the DAR) is actually going to give me any time out in the fresh air, or should I simply give my wallet to my favorite mechanic now and go watch some TV, and save all that mucking round negotiating a purchase for what really does sound like a bike fat money pit.
It's a great looking bike and I don't want to be just another Jap bike rider, but I'm not particularly mechanically minded, (and damn lazy to boot), and it really does seem that most of the discussions going on, relate to how much time energy and money they cost to keep on the road.
Is that a fair call, or should I man up, and get all British on it?
I've previously owned a GS450, a GSXR400, a couple of XRs and currently a TT600, none of which were/are maintained particularly well...
Any thoughts, suggestions, criticisms of my lax approach to maintenance welcome...! :)
all very intereting.
This thread seems to tell me the 97 Tiger I bought for 600 buks cause it likes to drop a cylinder till 3000rpm.... is.. a brother to the ones with problems in these threads. Possible fixable with a coil and pickup and carb cleaning. Might do that till I find the diesel engine I want to swap with.
Any more updates on the troubled bikes in this thread. Except one of you it's been a few months since the last post in here who were wrenching on their bikes.
My problems are never-ending. I take one thing apart and find six more things AFU. :evil:
Have read much of the info re missfires etc with interest since I have similar (identical ?) problem (95 Tiger on 35K miles). This is first post so please excuse any 'protocol' dropoffs but would really appreciate some help as beginning to go up the wall......
Bike bought as non runner with broken sprag. (that's another story) . Whilst engine out, I set valves and cleaned out carbs. Replaced badly worn needles and jets and cleaned everthing. Float heights as manual. All idle mix screws 2 turns out (not quite sure of original setting as had hell of job removing them to replace Orings and clean out passages)
Problem now is missfire just off idle to ~4K with pops/bangs mainly out RH silencer. Carbs balanced OK but doesn't seem to have responded (as regards smooth running) to balancing as well as expected ? Plug chop after holding at ~2K (throttle ~1/8th open ?) shows all 3 plugs look uniformly sooty (new plugs). Bike starts and runs fine at idle, starts misbehaving at ~1.5 to 2K but fine above 4K. Drivable but just feels like very badly balanced carbs ie lack of pull or advance isn't coming on when pulling away.
Suspecting electrics and not trusting plug colours switched out each coil in turn for new one out of pure optimism - no improvement.
Checked pickup resistance ~540R although remeasured when stone cold gives ~500R - seems within limits. Did get one initial value of ~200R but put this down to multimeter 'warming up'....hmmmmm...and couldn't repeat it later no matter how wires were pulled shaken etc
Wiring from pick up to ignitor box checks out OK.
Tried leaning out idle mix (assuming screws go in for leaner) - 1/2 turn no improvement, further 1/4 and won't idle well. Plug chop at 2K still shows sooty plugs smelling of fuel. Didn't try screwing out.
Carb intake rubbers starting to crack (surface only?) and will be replaced before next startup.
Am just about to replace pickup thinking this would be obvious cause of problem on all 3 cylinders but would appreciate if someone could please confirm correct needle positions - I have clips in middle slot (ie 3rd from top or bottom of the five) - this is where they were when I took apart but guess UK and US bikes may be different - manual don't seem to provide answer. Bike has standard exhausts & new original airbox/filter. None of the emiisions gumph. One plenum blocked and one open as factory. Mains and needle jets are std sizes as manual.
Also, bike has green ignitor box - notice that my parts catalogue says 'do not use' !! and gives superceded part number. Is this telling me something ? Are the green ones prone to packing in ? Could part of the advance curve go off but the high speed bit be OK ? Don't want to butcher the RH cover just yet....
Rebuild started January (yes, I am that slow) and was originally planning to use for long trip this summer..........aaarrrghhh..... Don't want to pour any more money into this...may never get the new pads worn in at this rate.
any pointers much appreciated - apologies if I've failed to find the posts with the answers already in.
what happens when you screw the pilots out past 2 turns ? It should die like it did when screwed in .
The mikunis have an oring on the vacuum tube seat that I believe will cause the syptoms you describe as they get old and cracked
when you say you changed the coils out with new one at a time what exactly do you mean ? Because your problem if I was a bettting man would be the coils , if they are marked GILL I would bin them now and replace with Nologys or PVL's
The pickup sensor or crank trigger if you will , usually just plain up and die instantly when hot and the bike will run normal again when cooled down until it heats up again and then dies . It should ohm out at .6 ohms and like the coils even though it ohms out fine it can still be junk . BTW the coils should ohm out at .6 also
cheers for the reply and thoughts
When I had the carbs apart I replaced the vac offtake orings under the carb tops and checked the diaphragms for splits but will check diaphragms again. (missfire also there when I run off slave fuel tank and have vacuum gauges connected). Also replaced the 2 orings on each float assembly. Only ones I missed were the ones trapped under the slide housing/needle jets since I didn't realise they were there until reassembly and couldn't face another trip to dealers....
regarding the coils - I bought a new PVL and swapped it out with the originals one at a time...I was expecting to find an improvement when I hit a dud one. Optimistic thinking again that if coils were the trouble, only one would have gone. Is it likely more than one fails at a time ? Can one take another down with it ?
Important bit I forgot to mention (doh!!!) is that just sometimes the missfire isn't there and revs rise and fall smoothly with no hesitation. Few minutes later we're back to 'normal' missfiring. This doesn't happen often but makes me think thermal problem (eg pickup heating up and malfunctioning, intake rubbers opening up etc).
Other observation when riding the thing is that missfire sometimes appears to improve slightly if you pull the choke is slightly on (but won't idle well as expected) .....don't understand this at all when the plugs seem to be saying it's too rich. (Have checked that the choke plungers are going properly home when choke is off) Any idea what this is telling me ?
Plan to have everything back together this weekend (new intake rubbers and pickup) and will try running pilot screws out along and do compression test just to check.......will post any interesting developments......may try dropping needles a notch if no change. At least can do this without taking carbs off again I hope.
Problem is now disease is spreading in garage.....battery on MuZ expired this morning ......unfortunately didn't prevent me making it in to work....
thanks for the suggestions....will keep plugging away.....
sounds like you may have bad carb boots and are sucking air on the intakes .........................and /or coil problems as well .
When mine had similar symptoms to yours it was the coils going they are bad at firing under a good compression load .ie second or third gear at 20 mph and give her some throttle , mine would lose a cylinder every time until 4500 rpm then it would come back alive with a vengeance
replaced all three coils with nologys and the tigger has never ran better , even from day one when new .
Sorry to hear about your troubles. I know how frustrating it can be having a bike that you have to put as much time into repairing as riding. I grew up on the old Meridian Triumphs and they left me stranded more than once.
I don't mean to crow but I just got back from a 4400 mile trip to Seattle and up through B.C. and back home to Denver on the Tiger without any trouble what so ever. I did lose my high beams on the 3rd to last day of the trip. I was going to replace the coils with Nology's just to be sure I wasn't stranded because of one, and JetDoc, I did have along a spare igniter as per your suggestion. I couldn't replace the coils as they arrived the day before I left but I did have them with me. Tiger ran between 42 and 54 mpg depending on how I was riding. Rode between Snowville and Boise at 90 mph the whole way and got 42 (was a 725 mile day). The saddle on the Tiger, at least for me, is a misery but I put up with it (is a Corbin).
I'm really impressed with my Tiger and I wish your's was doing better. I know they are a far superior bike to the old Meridian's but it is just no fun when its your bike that is not working as well as it should be. I hope you get everything sorted out.
KTM's are a great bike if a little expensive and the 900 is awfully tall.
Hang in there.
Milton S.
Glad to hear you've all been out enjoying the summer sunshine (grrrrr)...here's how I've spent my recent quality garage time ....
Problem finally fixed !!! (I think...).
Just in case there's any lessons in this for anyone other than me (doh), here's (I hope) the final part of the story....
1st Weekend:
Replaced ignition pickup (just in case)
Replaced carb rubbers
Reset idle screws to 2 turns out
Checked compression - 185,190 and 192psig cold which I took to be fine ! - gauge might be past it's best though..
Removed petrol tap and cut off filters
Dismantled filler cap and made sure vent clear (had tried running with cap open before so knew this wasn't a problem but did it anyway !). One of the other threads with photo was useful here. The lesson I learnt is don't do this in the back yard with the cap attached to the tank. Just managed to avoid loosing anything before I did the sensible thing and removed the whole cap assembly and worked on table. Hinkley must have a whole Dept devoted to cap design !! Tank now whistles like mad nearly all the time - different notes for air going in or out !
Engine restarted OK but still poping at steady 2-3K and not keen to pull off. Pause for small amount of moderate swearing.
However, Seemed marginally better than before so decided to use for work commute and see if it would improve or get worse with good thrashing...
By Thursday I'd had enough (no change) and returned to using MZ.
Only useful observations from frustrating 4 days were:
a) running definitely improved with slight choke (smooth pull away and no pops at low speed)
b) idle speed was eratic on one day only.
Decided problem must therefore lay with carbs - 3 main theories :
a) slides sticking at low speed and hence bike running lean - therefore improves with extra fuel from choke
b) fuel blockage in choke supply - if fuel pick up from float bowl blocked then opeing choke plungers would let air straight through from carb inlet to downstream of butterfly and results in leaning out - therefore in this case bike is perhaps running rich and applying choke leans out
c) incorrectly assembled pilot screws (!!) is either producing air leak or blocking off proportion of fuel through idle jet - therefore bike is lean and choke adds fuel and corrects.
One of my ex-racing mates reckoned plug colours I'd seen from previous steady 2K rpm runs in garage were meaningless unless engine was under load. I think I've learnt this before ......However, since it's such a pain taking the plugs out when the bike's in a ridable state I didn't bother trying a proper plug chop before dismantling again...
2nd weekend:
Carbs off and dismantled again (record time !)
Managed to remove 2 of 3 pilot jets this time and checked standard 40's. No sign of any obstructions.
Double check diaphragms for splits (again)
No sign of any stickiness with slides but lightly polished slides with Brasso metal polish (if anything the slides seem quite sloppy in the guides and I was wondering if this could let ambient/high pressure under diaphragms down to region of needles and reduce low pressure enough to slow/delay rise of pistons - any idea what happens when wear becomes very large ? Didn't pursue this as have clocked up much higher milages on CV carbs before with no probs)
Needle clips left on centre groove
Put 1/2 can of cleaner through idle and choke fuel passages. The idle ones I'd cleaned out before but can't remember if I'd done the choke fuel lines (ie external brass pipes). For good measure, pumped petrol with syringe through all these circuits and checked flow in all directions through all inlets/exits. No obvious signs of issues although final bits of lawn not previously killed by kids playing football may take some time to recover from petrol dowsing....
Replace floats and recheck float heights
Finally - may or may not be important ? - resequenced oring/washer/spring on idle mix screws.
There seems no info in manual and when I'd reassembled last time had done ;
(innermost first) oring-washer-spring-screw
parts catalogue shows ;
(innermost first) washer-spring-oring-screw
Hence this time went with parts catalogue sequence although couldn't see would make any difference..
Engine starts OK - warm up and readjust idle speed.
Bingo !! - runs fine, will hold any rpm nice and steady with no popping. Her indoors complains about the noise so must be good,
So....not quite sure which bit of operator error this was all down to - inadequate cleaning or incorrect idle screw asssembly?
Anyway, 4 trouble free days so far this week going to and from work - seems fine - pulls nicely from ~1.5K - no longer need to drive like 350 YPVS.....top end seems fine as well. Small holes in rusty RH exhaust gives nice burble on over-run....
Hope to get a few extra (recreational) miles in now with the last of the spectacular UK summer rapidly approaching and hopefully do Baltic trip next year.
thanks again for the support
At least this whole sad story has given my work mates with fuel injection a good laugh - I'm just waiting for them to get their next flat battery or I get the chance to download a virus into their Power commanders.......
ride safe
Thought it had been raining in the UK for so long you had timed it just right :wink:
Quote from: "leaky"............. or I get the chance to download a virus into their Power commanders.......
ride safe
:lol:
You didn't happen to notice the markings on teh needles when you had them off did you?
Needles and emulsion tubes I bought new from Triumph (old ones knackered after 37K miles) and are marked :
needles :5E56
tubes :9-0()519
clips in middle of 5 slots ie 3rd up or down !
hope this helps
Brilliant, thanks :icon_salut