Hi Newbie here
Many apologies if this has been covered before but i'm in the process of replacing my old shock. Managed to the remove the top mounting bolt (many a skinned knuckle) and also the bottem one.....(great design with the exhaust lowers there triumph!!) But could someone enlighten me in how on earth i remove the hollow shaft linking the s/a with the lower eyebolt of the shock
Your confused
Pip
BFH
(Big Freaking Hammer)
ani dea of what sort and size of drift / punch to go along with the BFH :?: :?: :lol:
Have you got it out yet Pip?
Started on my Hagon replacement today. I had a 10 mm brass drift I was able to gently tap the bush out with, but I suppose if you were doing it properly you'd make up a stepped drift with the smaller step @ 8mm to locate the drift and the step about 12.
Mine wasn't in that tight, good luck with yours.
The Triumph shock runs on needle roller bearings, but my Hagon just has a machined brass bush. I assume this is O.k? I'm flicking Hagon an email to ask them too but if anyone knows and can tell me that would be great!
Snappy reply from Hagon, the brass bush IS the new bearing. Went and gave the bush a gentle twist, spins freely. D'oh! :oops:
Take pics and write a How-To? 8)
Sorry Stretch, didn't think. Next time. Been having a look through your how tos. Great Idea!
Okay I just replaced my Hagon with a fully adjustable Hagon.
So here goes nothing.
Remove rear wheel and exhaust can , no need to remove the down pipes.
For the top shock mount I use a long 3/8" extension with a knuckle joint for flexibilty see below
place a 17 mm wrench on the nut on the left and your extension with your torx on the right and remove..see pic
next is the lower shock mount , remove the plastic covers and again use the long extension with the knuckle joint for the left hand side , at this stage you will be able to move the swingarm up and down slightly with the top bolt removed and this will give you room to put the extension in.
There are 2 washers on eith side of the bolt and I use a long nose pliers to get the one on the left side that holds the nut..
At this stage you will see the shaft that the shock rides on
again see below.
Now for the good bit
I got a long 3/8" extension and modified it on my bench grinder by hitting the top with a big hammer and then rounding out both ends until I got a nice fit to drift out the spacer , and it all lined up correctly
At this stage you will line up your drift and start hitting with a hammer until the spacer starts to move, It's really important to make sure you are lined up correctly.
In extreme cases where the spacer will just not budge which happened to me after Alaska , I had to remove the swingarm and turn it on its side with shock attached and beat the snot out of it to remove the shock..
After you get the spacer out I like to oil it and clean it up with emory paper to make sure it's nice and smooth
Now it's time to put the whole thing back together .
I put the spacer in from the LEFT side by lining it up and gently tapping it in until it's lined up and then driving it thru
Line up the bottom shock mount and tap the spacer until it's starting to set into the bottom shock mount. Be careful at this stage to line eveything up nicely and your all set.
Then torque the bolt top and botton to 30foot lbs and your all set
Hope this helps and then finish with a nice cuppa tea and a digestive.
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/2uoykcuf/img_5578_177.jpg)
I love the sticker . :ImaPoser .......where can I get one ?
First, this is not a criticism, but I'm not a great fan of whacking anything with BFHs - especially if it's light alloy. I much prefer science over brute force. (As an example, in my days as an engineering manger, I walked onto the shop floor one day to see two technicians bashing seven shades out of a coupler as they tried to unscrew it from the end of a hydraulic ram which had about a 3 inch thread. They were doing a lot of surface damage to what was a piece of kit worth over a thousand dollars and integral to safety as it had to raise about 20 tons. After shouting myself hoarse to make myself heard over the banging, I put a 10 ft length of scaffolding pole through the coupler and unscrewed it with one hand. Then we had to send it away for flaw detection to make sure the damage wasn't serious).
Having said that, I recognise that for some jobs it's simply not possible, and even if it were, most folks don't have access to the necessary sleeves and bolts etc to make up presses or pullers. In this case, I've not had to do this job yet so I'm not sure it can be solved easily.
If I'm right, it would need a shaft, long enough to go through the spacer from one side and protrude from the swing arm on the other, just under 8mm in dia with a 10mm dia end and the 8mm protruding part threaded so that a collar can be placed over it, against the swing arm and then you could screw down the nut to pull the spacer out?
If that sounds about right, I could perhaps develop a tool that would work, using my 2005 Girly for fit. Maybe even produce a few, but would have to charge for materials plus shipping.
Awesome! Thanks for the write-up, Zombie. I'm going to link this to 'Girly Wisdom'.
Cheers Zombie,
Your perseverence with the rhs lower shock removal is a better option than taking the exhaust off, I just couldn't seem to get enough room when I tried it (obviously didn't try hard enough).
Fully adjustable Hagon? do you mean 'remote preload adjustment' or do they make an upspec shock for Tigger?
Cheers
Quote from: "Advwannabe"Cheers Zombie,
Your perseverence with the rhs lower shock removal is a better option than taking the exhaust off, I just couldn't seem to get enough room when I tried it (obviously didn't try hard enough).
Fully adjustable Hagon? do you mean 'remote preload adjustment' or do they make an upspec shock for Tigger?
Cheers
yup remote thingy is what I meant
My 2 peneeth,looking at the pictures,my spindle was drifted out from the left side of the bike,and went back the same way,as it's not possible to get the spindle in with the header pipe in the way on the right side.
Quote from: "Chris Canning"My 2 peneeth,looking at the pictures,my spindle was drifted out from the left side of the bike,and went back the same way,as it's not possible to get the spindle in with the header pipe in the way on the right side.
Silly me I don't know me bleedin' left from me right , shoulda been left of course. :lol:
When I had my bike in to the dealer last fall for a computer check I asked if the rear shock link and the swing arm pivot could be lubed. The tech said that the rear shock couldn't be removed without pulling the exhaust system. I pointed out that it should be easily accessible once the swing arm was loose. I went for a coffee and a walk and returned to pick up my bike. I asked if the bottom shock link had been done. The tech replied that he had beat on it but couldn't get the sleeve to move and if I wanted to bring the swing arm in with the shock attached he'd take it to a machine shop and get it pressed out. After reading Zombie's posts I decided to do it myself.
I bought a length of 3/8" threaded rod, some 3/8 nuts, a couple of 3/8 by 1 +1/2" fender washers and a 3/8 flat washer and a piece of inch and a half high density plastic rod. With this I was able to build a puller that was easily able to draw out the sleeve from the left side. I pulled the top mounting bolt on the shock and let the swing arm drop as per Zombie's instructions. That let me get in to wind off the nut.
Use all high tensile grade eight fasteners and rod. (http://www.gnarlyparts.ca/thread_head.htm (http://www.gnarlyparts.ca/thread_head.htm)) Cut the rod 11 inches long and on one end grind two opposing flats a 1/2 " long. This is for a "steady wrench". Cut an 8 degree angle on one end of the plastic rod, then cut it off about 1" long. This piece will support the rod against the swing arm and allow for a straight pull. Drill a 3/8" or 7/16" hole in the centre of it. Thread two nuts on one end of the rod and tighten them together then grind them round. Don't fuck the threads on the rod. When you have done that make sure they are easily removable. The OD of the sleeve is 17mm and the inside 10mm. The rounded nuts are 14 to 15mm so easily fit through the hole.
From the left hand side slide the rod all the way through. On the right hand side thread on the rounded nuts. Just cover the threads. From the left hand side pull it tight, push on a fender washer, the plastic angled piece, the other fender washer, then the flat washer. Thread the nut down to snug it all up. Hold the end of the rod where you ground the flats with a crescent wrench, and start winding the nut in towards the swingarm. It will take a lot of pressure if the sleeve has either never been out or hasn't been out for a long time. The plastic will compress and then pop back to size as the sleeve progresses. Strange noises may ensue. Mine was tight all the way out with no gradual loosening, but it came out without violence.
When the sleeve came out it had two broken bits on the left hand end where it had been smacked with a drift. This has necessitated ordering an OEM part. There are three Triumph dealers within 100 miles of me. I called them all. The price for this sleeve ranged from $10.00 to 28.00 Can. I am sure the guy with the $10.00 price was reading something wrong. Bikebandits price was $15.05 US. All of these sources had to order the part from the UK, had a 10 day shipping time to them, and then had to send it to me. I have never had local postage for parts for less than $15 Can. even when it is only over a distance of 100 miles.
So...when I had a Beemer I ordered all my parts from the UK because it was cheaper and faster. Let's see if that works for Triumph. I called Jack Lilly Triumph in Ashford Mddx. at 5PM GMT. The part is 8.49 pounds or $14 Can at the current exchange rate. He will have it by noon tomorrow and on its way by two PM. Shipping time to me - 4 days! Cost 4.50 pounds or about $7 Can. Cheaper, far quicker, and a much more pleasant person to deal with than two out of the three local parts departments.
A while back i bought a Wilbers shock for my Girly,
last weekend i fitted it,and thanks to this thread it was a simple job
(http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll130/chairhead64/Tiger/DSCF2273.jpg)
i found it easier to remove the swingarm than to fiddle about with a long drift,it is dark in that little hole and you cant see what you are hitting,this also gives you chance to inspect the swingarm bearings,mine were perfect :D
(http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll130/chairhead64/Tiger/DSCF2282.jpg)
once the arm was out i could see exactly where to hit and with what,
i used the tensile fastner from the rear brake torque arm,it fitted like a glove.
(http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll130/chairhead64/Tiger/DSCF2283.jpg)
I put an 8mm hex bit in and 3/8 extention bar this was topped with a an impact socket and i tapped home the sleeve.
(http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll130/chairhead64/Tiger/DSCF2275.jpg) i wonder how much longer the needle bearing would have lasted?? :roll:
and here it is fitted,when i first got down on my hands and knees to try and find the top mount fasteners i thought ahh shit,but in the end it was easy to do,i also fitted a new OEM chain and sprocket set,im just annoyed with myself that i forgot to buy a new chain guide :oops: :evil:
(http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll130/chairhead64/Tiger/DSCF2286.jpg)
the swingarm also seem to be tapered - it's easier to remove the sleeve by using a drift from the left side of the swingarm, and removing to the right.... installation is the reverse - putting the sleeve in from the left is difficult, but installation from the right side towards the left is easy.
Much easier to make sure the needle bearings stay in place on re-installation.
It's a shame Ohlins stopped making a shock for the Tiger(i have one),i also have Wilbers for another bike,but to have a Wilbers shock the same spec as an Ohlins you end up with a remote for the compression and the reservoir,and then a separate one for the remote preload and a pipe to go with it. :( ,so in the end becomes a trade off between one or the other,as space is always at a premium.
Its a bigger shame that Fournales dont make a shock for my Tiger,
cheaper,much lighter and less to go wrong,service intervals of 80,000 miles,a much over looked bit of kit.
Guys, today I replaced the original shock on my '05 Tiger (after 42K miles) with a Hagon - and these posts were very helpful. So here's the report from my "Busted Knuckle Garage:" :D
- removed seat, panels, battery & box.
- unmounted the preload adjuster, unbolted the top shock bolt then the bottom bolt.
- didn't have to remove the can, exhaust pipe, tire or swing arm; they were all clear.
- drove out the bushing & cleaned it up.
- removed old shock assembly out thru the battery area; set in the new unit, greased bushings, added loctite and torqued'em in.
- the longer Hagon preload adjuster and longer feed line could not stand upright like the OEM, so I worked the old fitting to mount it sideways; the knob is accessible behind the left side panel. This is good since I can't remove the Corbin seat when the top box is on (which is always).
Photos at:
http://picasaweb.google.com/woodhead1/TriumphTigerNewHagonShock#
Love the Girlies!
WOODY
PS. If anyone wants to salvage the old OEM shock, PM me.
Quote from: "chairhead"A while back i bought a Wilbers shock for my Girly,
(http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll130/chairhead64/Tiger/DSCF2286.jpg)
I have to ask how you expect to adjust the preload?
Nearly as difficult as on my Blackbird. Fortunately, on the 'Bird it's only a 5 minute job to drop the shock out and do it on the bench. Not ideal though.... :roll:
They are not exactly cheap but Traxxion Dynamics custom makes Penske shocks for the Tiger, matched to rider weight & intended use. They have two models that I know of that will work, the 8983 (double adjustable) and the 8987 (adjustable for both high and low speed compression damping/rebound & ride height).
As for the lower shock mount sleeve removal, a correctly sized hardwood dowel will also work in a pinch, just so long as you don't plan on using it more than once or twice. (good for a roadside fix)
http://traxxionstore.com/shocks-2.aspx (http://traxxionstore.com/shocks-2.aspx)
Jonathan
06' Tiger (currently under modification)
Quote from: "blacktiger"Quote from: "chairhead"A while back i bought a Wilbers shock for my Girly,
I have to ask how you expect to adjust the preload?
Its pre adjusted to my weight and intended use,but if i have to then i will get the supplied "C" spanner out and give to my 3 year old niece,her hands will just about fit in there :D
Just fitted a Hagon lowering shock to my 04 Girly. It's the 05 model, and it was a much easier job than I expected. The lower shock mounting is easily accessible on both sides under the swingarm, and it was a simple job to get in with an aluminium drift and a bfh.
Many thanks to everybody who's contributed to this thread - I'd still be trying to figure things out if I'd had to rely on the manual.
Next job - cut the centre and side stands down to size!
Scott.
Quote from: "scotty99"Next job - cut the centre and side stands down to size!
Scott.
Are you really having difficulty getting it onto the mainstand? I can see the sidestand could cause a bit of concern on the wrong camber.
I just fitted lowering plates and dropped the forks on my Roadie, haven't had it out yet but just on the flat it seems still within range and the mainstand requires only slightly more effort, nothing like the Vara though.
Where abouts in Ayrshire out of interest, I am in Maybole when I manage to get to the UK.
Maybe, I'm just a weakling, but I had a problem getting the Tiger onto the centre stand before I lowered it. Chopping the stand seems to be the best option.
I'm in Cumnock, not that far from Maybole.
Scott.
Just up the road, I'll give you a shout next time I'm back if you fancy a bacon butty. Promise I am not going to go back if there is the slightest chance of snow or ice, :icon_scratch that kind of limits it a bit.
Not sure about your main stand but many I have seen are a bit limited in scope for shortening, not enough straight length to cut out. If it's possible I think I would also be looking at how easy it is to rock off the stand, you might need to grind back the stop as well to get a bit more over centre angle if you know what I mean.
Quote from: "chairhead"Quote from: "blacktiger"Quote from: "chairhead"A while back i bought a Wilbers shock for my Girly,
I have to ask how you expect to adjust the preload?
Its pre adjusted to my weight and intended use,but if i have to then i will get the supplied "C" spanner out and give to my 3 year old niece,her hands will just about fit in there :D
Ha ha.
So, have you had a chance to assess the Wilbers? I'm thinking of investing myself......with a remote preload, of course.
Quote from: "scotty99"Maybe, I'm just a weakling, but I had a problem getting the Tiger onto the centre stand before I lowered it. Chopping the stand seems to be the best option.
I'm in Cumnock, not that far from Maybole.
Scott.
getting it onto the centre-stand is more technique than strength and i'm very comfortable with doing it but, having lowered mine by 40mm using a hagon shock, i can assure you that it's impossible to get it on the stock centrestand.
i got the stand cut, seems fine now.
So, I've just tackled the task of removing my shock, which after 59000 miles of abuse is feeling sad.
I found some of the above advice very useful but some is misleading. e.g no-one mentions that the shock will not come out without releasing the mudguard to allow the shock to swing rearwards, pivoting on the lower bearing....
So the things I had to remove were :-
Battery & box to give some room for hands to get in.
Exhaust muffler to allow access to the RH side hole for the shock lower bearing.
Rear wheel and mudguard to allow shock to exit stage rear.
Chain guard to give clearance for an extension for the spanner for the nut LH side of the top mounting. VERY TIGHT!
Rearmost mounting bolt on the exhaust headers so they could be pushed down slightly to allow the swing arm to sink low enough to let the top of the shock to clear the frame cross brace.
So with all that finally done, I made the puller to remove the lower bearing sleeve. I used some 10mm threaded bar and two nuts ground down and rounded to about 15mm diameter as described in a post somewhere above.
Lifting the swing arm up so that the RH hole clears the exhaust, the 14mm nut can be removed from the sleeve bolt, which has a torx in its head. That removed, I then inserted the threaded bar....
(http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp48/black955tiger/TIGER/REAR%20SHOCK/IMG_1713.jpg)
And arranged some bits and pieces to allow the puller to work....
(http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp48/black955tiger/TIGER/REAR%20SHOCK/IMG_1710.jpg)
And then wound on the nut and the sleeve came out good as gold.
This shows the shock, sleeve and puller....& 8 years of crap...
(http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp48/black955tiger/TIGER/REAR%20SHOCK/IMG_1711.jpg)
So with a thorough clean up I'm going to see if my local expert can give it an overhaul. If not, a Wilbers will be on order.
All the above took about 3 hours including a trip to Halfords to replace the socket set universal joint which shattered as I tried to undo the shock top mounting bolt. Hence putting an extension onto the spanner the other end. It's best to undo the nut, not try to undo the bolt if you know what I mean.
Quote from: "n4naked"getting it onto the centre-stand is more technique than strength and i'm very comfortable with doing it but, having lowered mine by 40mm using a hagon shock, i can assure you that it's impossible to get it on the stock centrestand.
i got the stand cut, seems fine now.
My chain eccentric is swivelled 180 degrees (~40mm drop at the back) and the foks are 25m up through the yokes. Hoiking the bike onto the c centre stand was a bit tedious. As I was doing a MIG welding evening class, I took the opportunity to cut and shut the stands. I removed 2cm either side from the centre stand and found 1cm was all the side stand needed. The centre stand's really easy to use now, and a bit of wind no longer blows it over off the side stand. With the centre stand, I cut the bottom plate off the side that doesn't have the 'arm' and removed 2cm, shaping the tube to refit the bottom plate. The side with the arm, I cut the gusset plate free from the leg just below the cross tube and removed 2cm there (above the 'arm'). A suitable piece of scrap pipe was jammed up the middle for strength and then all welded up. Result!
Quote from: "blacktiger"So, I've just tackled the task of removing my shock, which after 59000 miles of abuse is feeling sad.
I found some of the above advice very useful but some is misleading. e.g no-one mentions that the shock will not come out without releasing the mudguard to allow the shock to swing rearwards, pivoting on the lower bearing....
So the things I had to remove were :-
Battery & box to give some room for hands to get in.
Exhaust muffler to allow access to the RH side hole for the shock lower bearing.
Rear wheel and mudguard to allow shock to exit stage rear.
Chain guard to give clearance for an extension for the spanner for the nut LH side of the top mounting. VERY TIGHT!
Rearmost mounting bolt on the exhaust headers so they could be pushed down slightly to allow the swing arm to sink low enough to let the top of the shock to clear the frame cross brace.
So with all that finally done, I made the puller to remove the lower bearing sleeve. I used some 10mm threaded bar and two nuts ground down and rounded to about 15mm diameter as described in a post somewhere above.
Lifting the swing arm up so that the RH hole clears the exhaust, the 14mm nut can be removed from the sleeve bolt, which has a torx in its head. That removed, I then inserted the threaded bar....
(http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp48/black955tiger/TIGER/REAR%20SHOCK/IMG_1713.jpg)
And arranged some bits and pieces to allow the puller to work....
(http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp48/black955tiger/TIGER/REAR%20SHOCK/IMG_1710.jpg)
And then wound on the nut and the sleeve came out good as gold.
This shows the shock, sleeve and puller....& 8 years of crap...
(http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp48/black955tiger/TIGER/REAR%20SHOCK/IMG_1711.jpg)
So with a thorough clean up I'm going to see if my local expert can give it an overhaul. If not, a Wilbers will be on order.
All the above took about 3 hours including a trip to Halfords to replace the socket set universal joint which shattered as I tried to undo the shock top mounting bolt. Hence putting an extension onto the spanner the other end. It's best to undo the nut, not try to undo the bolt if you know what I mean.
Update......
Inspecting the lower bearing I found that 3 rollers were missing. It's an
"IKO YT172420 drawn cup, full compliment needle roller". Triumph don't supply new ones and they're not listed in the IKO catalogue. GGrrrrr!
So, I ordered a caged one the same size and cannibalized it for the rollers which were the same diameter but 1.5mm shorter. Packed it with grease and placed the short rollers one every third of the way round the bearing and reassembled the bike fitting a new sleeve inner through the bearing. It surprised me how easily it all pushed through.
Quote from: "blacktiger"So, I've just tackled the task of removing my shock, which after 59000 miles of abuse is feeling sad.
I found some of the above advice very useful but some is misleading. e.g no-one mentions that the shock will not come out without releasing the mudguard to allow the shock to swing rearwards, pivoting on the lower bearing....
So the things I had to remove were :-
Battery & box to give some room for hands to get in.
Exhaust muffler to allow access to the RH side hole for the shock lower bearing.
Rear wheel and mudguard to allow shock to exit stage rear.
Chain guard to give clearance for an extension for the spanner for the nut LH side of the top mounting. VERY TIGHT!
Rearmost mounting bolt on the exhaust headers so they could be pushed down slightly to allow the swing arm to sink low enough to let the top of the shock to clear the frame cross brace.
So with all that finally done, I made the puller to remove the lower bearing sleeve. I used some 10mm threaded bar and two nuts ground down and rounded to about 15mm diameter as described in a post somewhere above.
Lifting the swing arm up so that the RH hole clears the exhaust, the 14mm nut can be removed from the sleeve bolt, which has a torx in its head. That removed, I then inserted the threaded bar....
(http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp48/black955tiger/TIGER/REAR%20SHOCK/IMG_1713.jpg)
And arranged some bits and pieces to allow the puller to work....
(http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp48/black955tiger/TIGER/REAR%20SHOCK/IMG_1710.jpg)
And then wound on the nut and the sleeve came out good as gold.
This shows the shock, sleeve and puller....& 8 years of crap...
(http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp48/black955tiger/TIGER/REAR%20SHOCK/IMG_1711.jpg)
So with a thorough clean up I'm going to see if my local expert can give it an overhaul. If not, a Wilbers will be on order.
All the above took about 3 hours including a trip to Halfords to replace the socket set universal joint which shattered as I tried to undo the shock top mounting bolt. Hence putting an extension onto the spanner the other end. It's best to undo the nut, not try to undo the bolt if you know what I mean.
Blimey,i've had my rear shock out 3 times,never touched the battery/box/rear mudguard or lower header bolt,just silencer/hugger/rear wheel off,undo top shock bolt, bottom shock bolt,and knock the sleeve out,and the shock comes out.
If you order a Wilbers or any other shock check the spec,they are most certainely not all the same(standard spec that is)
I have removed my swing arm for powder coating & have had real trouble with the lower suspension bottom bearing that triumph very kindly do not list as a part at all & this is what Ive found.
I have removed the whole shock from the bike & have managed to push out the bearing & have found a bearing number that fits I will post pics up after the bank holiday when the bearing shop is open but I have checked with simplybearings.co.uk & its available the number required is
IKO YT1725
or
IKO TA1725
Inside diameter 17mm
outside diameter 24mm
width 25mm
Hope this will help anyone finding a replacement cause I can.t understand why triumph do not list it very strange.
I'll be interested to see how you get on having your arm powder coated,the factory anodise them,if the powder isn't really thin or the guy doesn't spend a fair amount of time masking it,you'll be on a steep/time consuming curve.
Ok. I got the top bolt out, but the bottom one is giving me fits. How did you guys get that torx bolt out? there were pics at one time, but they're gone now.